Fakhri Pasha "The Defender of Madina"

[usernameless]

Another funny thing. All of the above is actually correct.

even more funnier is that most of the points you wrote were 'confirmed' by yourself in this thread while you kept your eyes closed what other people said. of course, the goal in the end is just believing what you want to believe. way to go to make yourself look more important and incredibly smart.

anyway, since i have free time now;

1) civilizations come, civilizations go. Arabs were magnificent in their way in the past, so were Turks. Now i know you wil be subjective and claim that Aarbs were superior, but idc about your misplaced superiority complex. now we are in the modern era based on the western civilization where Arab countries are lagging behind and are being used by the west. fact. so much for your awesome civilization that can't help you now at all.

2) if Turks were sitting on oil and gas like the Arabs, we would be in the top 10 combined with our hardworking mentality, unlike you Arabs who needed the oil in the first place to make a serious start for God's sake. Even then most of the total oil revenues went/go to the western companies. yeah, i know Arabs are diversifying their economies nowadays, but fact is before the diversifying took place it was mainly oil that saved you.

3) that might be true or false. Turkics in CA might have more chance to be related to them than Turks in Turkey. has nothing to do with 'superior' culture as you put it down in order to give those Turks a bad image. says enough about your retarded way of thinking.

4) you are actually right, Turks should have stayed away from the Arabs and the caliphate, so that the crusaders could cleanse the Arab lands from the Arabs during the crusades. would have saved lots of Turkish lives. on a serious note, why don't you read some moe instead of wasting your time writing essays. don't be a typical Arab (no offense to other Arab members) by talking and claiming stuff, but actually go do something with your own hands.

MuslimHeritage.com - Topics

5) around 1500 the Arabs were in a weak state. Ottomans took advantage of it and became the caliphate. most probably due prestige and status. that ain't betraying since Arabs were even killing their own kinds for religious and political matters. Now helping a foreign christian power to divide the muslims under disguise of promises is something more heinous. deny what you want, but KSA and the GCC are actually STILL in the hands of the west. they control you to the core. some weapon deals with Russia aint gonna change anything. When the west thinks it's time to bring democracy and human rights there, it's game over (pun intended).

6) most sources state Turco-Mongol, unless you deliberately take out the Turkic part just to justify your biased view.

7) the elite Persianized, the mass Turks didn't. how convenient that you leave out the fact that the military was always directed in Turkic language, never in Persian or Arabic. That says enough that the mass never Persianized in a cultural way at all. you once again managed to state a half true 'fact' and make your self look like a clown.

8) see the link above.

9) you finally managed to get a point. good job!

10) if a Westerner criticizes Turks about democracy, i can somewhat tolerate his words. But when an Arab says so to me...

anyway, those journalists were suspected of doing stuff for various illegal factions inside of Turkey. whether they were truly guilty or not, i leave that up to the court. Kurds are a part of our nation. we had problems with them in the past, but in general we get along fine. i mean, have you seen a major Kurdish (Kurdish spring) uprising in whole Turkey? i never did since the last 30 years the pkk has been active. now as for the Arab nations... ouch, uprising after uprising. violence after violence. who's killing who? Arabs killing each other. why? because of religion or politics? seems they are oppressing their own people, yet you come and lecture Turks about how to handle a nation lol.

11) yes, we worship Ataturk 5 times a day. we go on pilgrimage to his tomb, you should come too one day. let me say that was sarcasm, because knowing you,, you would be eager to accept that since you like to hear what you want to hear. i know you're butthurt by Ataturk, maybe secretly you wish you had such an independent leader with a great vision in the modern times too, but you're fortunately eternally stuck with the Saudi clan, the puppet of the west, much better, right?

12) you can keep your sedentary life. ironically you became only so after having been influenced by the byzantines, persians and all those cultures that Telkon stated. so much for your great independent civilization. and even more ironically, the early Arabs were just savages and barbarian too. Islam truly saved you. just check the link again.

13) that's why it's called conquering. Moreover, destroying an already good city just so you can build a new one on the same spot doesn't make much sense. anyway, your argument is bs. if the Arabs actually managed to get the city before the Turks, look what your comment now might have been. jealous much?

14) yup, Turkey was poor in the past and a portion went abroad to work like a man. it would of course have been better if we had oil and sit on our asses so we didn't have to go abroad to work, but oh well, in that aspect we have not been blessed. Turkey is still doing a good job on developing. It's really ironic, and you still don't get it, that most of your economy and wealth was and is based on oil. the average GDP per capita of the GCC are still heavily influenced by oil. Even your own chart in the beginning of this thread showed that. Only KSA seems to be successful at diversifying their economy a bit. As i said before, just imagine KSA and the GCC without oil and see how far you will get.

15) your ignorance is shining once again. Even the Central Asian Turks are not 100% fully mongoloid. Of course you wouldnt bother reading about that, just so you can make easy separation like 'Anatolian (caucasian) Turks' and 'Mongoloid Turks'. The last category has non-Mongoloid features as well. we are basically a breed between these two and damn proud of it.

16) given the circumstances of that time, i dont think there was a need to build an 'ancient', spectacular, magnificent city from scratch given the factors that Turkic people were 1) nomads 2) cities were ripe for taking! use common sense, serious, how old are you and what's your iq? or does your logical thinking abilities go down when you have the urge to do pissing contests with other people?

17) look at the link above or do some reading. i entrust you on your abilities to find more info about this topic on the internet, or did i just expect too much from you?

compare to your heavily biased and unrealistic points, i consider my points quite neutral. let's see what ridiculous comment you will write this time.

 

[rmi5]

If you promise to go back to your barren uncivilized Mongolia where you left nothing.

In general what we can conclude is the following from this debate.

1) Semitic civilizations are obviously much greater on every field than Turkic "civilizations". In every imaginable way. Much more numerous, older and contributed way more to human history and civilization.

Arabs have not any significant civilization in their time and that's why you try to cover it by trying to put yourself in the same category with jews, who hate you completely, and do not even consider you as civilized human beings.

2) Turkey is much poorer than just a little part of the Arab world (GCC). Despite having a bigger population than every Arab country outside of Egypt.

So funny, coming from bunch of Gas station countries.

3) There is no genetic affinity between Turks and Koreans/Japanese despite some Turks trying to attach themselves to superior cultures and people.

See your comment #1 again and see who tries to attach himself to others.

4) Turks played the smallest role of all people that dominated the Caliphate. Barely any inventions of any worth happened during the Ottomans. That period is considered the dark age of Muslims.

What Arabs(not so called semite or any other funny categories) have invented in their entire history? all of those so called inventions in Abbasid caliphate are done by Iranians and Andalusians.

5) Turks betrayed Arabs in the 1500's and 400 years later when they were expelled from one province in the Arab world by a few tribes they cry.

6) Mughals were not Turks but Mongolians originally.

7) All the short-lived Turkic dynasties in Iran were heavily Persianized and mixed with Persians, Kurds, Arabs etc.

Short Lived? were Safavids or Qaznavids or ... Short-lived? BTW, in contrast to arabs, Turks have promoted other nations cultures instead of trying to ban them. That's the difference between being civilized, and tolerant with beduin culture.

8) Turkey has not made any indigenous products not based on Western technology.

9) The Ottomans were Arabized and copied the Arabic alphabet, calligraphy, miniatures, system, language etc.

10) Turkey is not a real democracy but claims so despite having the highest number of jailed journalists and oppressing the indigenous Kurds that form nearly 25% of the entire population.

Please let us know how many newspapers KSA has? BTW, probably Turkey needs to learn from arab Iraqis to gas kurds, or learn from arab Syrian to not even issue ID for them.

11) Turks worship a secularist and a person that erased 500 years of Turkish history. Their most glorious one by far. Abolished the Caliphate as well and made Turkey secular.

12) Mongols contributed with nothing like the early Turkic dynasties. In fact both were known as barbarians and destroyers of civilizations.

13) Istanbul is an Greek city and it's biggest attraction is an Greek Orthodox Church originally.

14) Turks are mostly poor and millions left the country for that reason. Despite there being no significant wars.

Is there anything more?

15) Well if Turks claim to be Turks then they are Mongoloids and Mongoloids are not Caucasian people.

16) Turks have not built any ancient Turkic city still standing.

17) There were close to no ancient Turkic scholars, scientists, poets etc. of note.

Another funny thing. All of the above is actually correct.

Bunch of BS, don't even worth to reply rest of your comment.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I was born in one of the oldest cities on earth and in no desert. Are you not that cult member who believes in that Hindu sect leader? What where your cults name again?

Does not change the fact that Lithuania is a useless small country with a tiny population with no civilization of worth. Their written history started 800 years ago.

Still older than the sect you follow so credit to them.

Oh, now I remember it. That Ahmadiyya cult which is considered as non-Muslims in your home country Pakistan.

Ahmadiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When defeated in all fields, the silly Bedouin attacks someone religious beliefs. But then again not much was expected from you.

 

[-SINAN-]

Gcc alone has a economy 2 times Turkey.

Wooooow. Guys did you read that. How goood.
Saudi stroooong.

Now go get your sword and do a desert dance.

Six oil seller states, have bigger economy ..... excuse me have much oil than us...

If you promise to go back to your barren uncivilized Mongolia where you left nothing.

In general what we can conclude is the following from this debate.

1) Semitic civilizations are obviously much greater on every field than Turkic "civilizations". In every imaginable way. Much more numerous, older and contributed way more to human history and civilization.

2) Turkey is much poorer than just a little part of the Arab world (GCC). Despite having a bigger population than every Arab country outside of Egypt.

3) There is no genetic affinity between Turks and Koreans/Japanese despite some Turks trying to attach themselves to superior cultures and people.

4) Turks played the smallest role of all people that dominated the Caliphate. Barely any inventions of any worth happened during the Ottomans. That period is considered the dark age of Muslims.

5) Turks betrayed Arabs in the 1500's and 400 years later when they were expelled from one province in the Arab world by a few tribes they cry.

6) Mughals were not Turks but Mongolians originally.

7) All the short-lived Turkic dynasties in Iran were heavily Persianized and mixed with Persians, Kurds, Arabs etc.

8) Turkey has not made any indigenous products not based on Western technology.

9) The Ottomans were Arabized and copied the Arabic alphabet, calligraphy, miniatures, system, language etc.

10) Turkey is not a real democracy but claims so despite having the highest number of jailed journalists and oppressing the indigenous Kurds that form nearly 25% of the entire population.

11) Turks worship a secularist and a person that erased 500 years of Turkish history. Their most glorious one by far. Abolished the Caliphate as well and made Turkey secular.

12) Mongols contributed with nothing like the early Turkic dynasties. In fact both were known as barbarians and destroyers of civilizations.

13) Istanbul is an Greek city and it's biggest attraction is an Greek Orthodox Church originally.

14) Turks are mostly poor and millions left the country for that reason. Despite there being no significant wars.

Is there anything more?

15) Well if Turks claim to be Turks then they are Mongoloids and Mongoloids are not Caucasian people.

16) Turks have not built any ancient Turkic city still standing.

17) There were close to no ancient Turkic scholars, scientists, poets etc. of note.

Another funny thing. All of the above is actually correct.

We explained you these issues. But you keep repeating the same things......

I went through all the previous pages and I came to the conclusion that non of you are well aware of the historical facts al-hasani laid down nor have been able to meaningfully response rather beating around the push parroting ignorantly over and over.

I hear this "historical facts" for esspecially you guys.

When you have no clear source or making no-sense. You say this is a "historical fact"..... tell you what... no, it's your invented historical lie.

let me give you a real histrical fact. Oghuz Turks Ruled you, you ruled nothing.

 

[Hakan]

Yeah if they were so great why did they allow themselves to be ruled by barbaric Mongols. I also forgot to mention the British French Persians Greeks Romans. Looks like their great civilization didn't save them back in the day. Today they are occupied by corrupt rulers who don't even obey the laws in their own country while they suck out the countries resources to buy their own personal yachts and planes. Pretty civilized if you ask me.

 

[Shah9]

QUICK FACT TO STFU:

Islam was spread by Prophet Muhammad and his companians. After the prophet's dead, they began spreading Islam throughout Africa, Asia and parts of Europe during Islamic Conquest.

Arab Caliphate got weak due to many wars and offensive, the rise of the Mongols and the Crusade led etc.

Osman took over the throne, Ottoman Turk has Islamic Caliph and ruled Muslim territories for over 500 years. Continued since World War 1.

Lastly, majority of the Muslims are non Arab.

CASE CLOSED.

 

[MertKaan]

Mongols and Turks are similar people not same but share common ancestors. You are trying to compare Turkic people of Turkey with mongols. The Turks are a mixture of Eurasians. They have been mixed too much. I suggest you go to countries like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan to see how similar Turkic people to Mongols.

Turks and Mongols lived same region with same culture but turks and mongol have different ancestry.

 

[Nomad16]

KSA was never a British colony.

before oil dicoverd there was nothing worth to use there for birts

All while your supposed people were still on the Central Asian Steppe where they left nothing of worth. At least nothing that we common people know about.

Daşoguz was both capital of oghuz turks and kharazmshahin most of our works gone by mongol

Camels are actually from the Horn of Africa. That's also where most of them live. I hear that you have camels too on the Central Asian Steppe and the deserts there. Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan etc. especially. Arabian horses are world famous though and Arabs always loved horses. We still do

probley you intrdusce camel cultuer to those areas and about arabina horse they where made mix with turkmen horse like akhal teke same for thoroughbred u have no good horse on your own and as arabic grammar shows you love camel more than your womens huh

Whatever Lithuanian. You are the most useless people of them all in Europe and the last people that got civilized by adopting Christianity 700 years ago or so

who ever they were at least today they don't make terrorist like arabs are

Crescent is not a Turkic or Ottoman invention. It derives from a pagan symbol anyway.
Which derived from the Arabic scripture.

Crescent is TURKIC sybmble ofc this is our most holy simple of moon god whom was father of oghuz khan the leader of oghuz turks this means we you go back your black allah akbar and la eilaha ela allah !same for your al qada arabs !

But you are a Turkish nationalist that worships Ataturk a secularist that destroyed Muslim rule in Turkey and made it secular. The man that abolished your Caliphate

dude you are badly jealousy about ataturk a vistioner leader who raise from ashes of war fight off the invaders and establish something even you arabs today couldn't establish what do you have to proud of , you fight for european against those who protecting you all the time and in the end you become european colony huh since the TURKS born until today are a people who never become colony ! never bow to a european master ! never been ruled by others im proud to born as TURK WHOM HAVE FREEDOM IN EVERY DROP OF MY BLOOD

Anyway that is similar to how your Mongol cousins behaved. Destroying and not building anything. Copying others. Just look how they destroyed Baghdad. The capital of the world back than and most developed city.

whom talking about destroying Baghdad last time i remmber when you savage shosless arabs take the baghdad from sassanids you destroy it raped womens and destroed Gundeshapur a international university of it's

The Huns were barbarians that contributed to nothing and only lasted for a short time. Besides they were not Turks. What connection do Turkish people have with theme? Nothing.
Do you want me to talk about the ancient Semitic civilizations from Egypt, Mesopotamia, Dilmun, ancient Yemen, ancient Levant, Phonecians that colonized Southern Europe before the Greeks and Romans existed etc. I already told you that you are going to lose that debate.

Semitic Semitic Semitic gimme something from your self !

Besides I am sure that you know that most Turkish people today have little ties to the real Turkic people. Most are indigenous people. Genetic tests prove this by abundance and they don't lie.

AND WHERE IS YOUR PROVE OF THAT ? SHOW IT TO ME

Yet the people who call themselves Turks today have little genetic affinity with the real Turks who live on the Central Asian Steppe and in Siberia today but they have no problem calling themselves Turk. Let alone in terms of looks.

can you prove it to me when i look myself i see we can azeris and turks of turkey are much alike !

"For the Seljuks and Il-Khanids in Iran it was the rulers rather than the conquered who were "Persianized and Islamicized"

than how unlike people of syria and iraq whom fully arabized we still keep our tradition and language even our pagan element in religion

look how united the Turks are. They don't even speak the same language, don't even border each other and don't even have a Turkic union
We don't claim to be a semi-democracy like Turkey which never will be part of the EU or accepted as a full democracy. We have our own system that most people are perfectly comfortable with.

haahaha whos talking about union isn't you arabs killing each other all the same since the fall of ottomans ?? isn't you who call your embassy to find poor syrian refugee girls so you could use them as sexslave ? turkey as turk nation bring free syrian army for syrians but you as arab nation bring terrorist to both syria and iraq something they will never forget ohh since we start to talking about womens lets see arab womens condition among you 90 years old soudi man wanna marry teen age girl womens forced to wear hijab womens are just men's Property womens cant drive a car womens even in Arabic grammar are animals and less than camels ! i know little arabic ! in english we have he for men she for women and it for rest thing in arabic something like it used for womens ! and something like he/she used for camels you plz dont talk about democracy you arabs use savage sharia as your law ! which used in Medieval age and even today it's feat for you !
90-yr-old Saudi Marries 15-yr-old Girl: Sparks Condemnation

The Arab world have the oldest civilizations in the world and the Arab Caliphates and Arabs built the greatest cities of the ancient world (Baghdad, Cordoba etc.)

dude your sick or made arab bulding these ??? all arab history started in 1400 ago by islam no need to talk about cordoba but baghdad was both Parthia and Sassanian empire's capital known as Ctesiphonif you seeking arabs than you should look more south some where between arabian soudi and habasha sry Ethiopia
Ctesiphon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yet the vast majority of Salah-ad-Din army was Arab and he was totally Arabized (spoke Arabic as his first language) and was born on Arab soil. Nor is Salah-ad-Din even the best Muslim general. He is one of the many greats.

surly u know nothing about saladin best Muslim gereral ?? unlike his predecessor the sultan nuraddin zangi , saladin was one of the Worst general ever foot in this world ! he was normal rule spirital leader and perfect Politician no more no less how many victory saladin brings for muslim ? he get famous in west cuz he able to take Jerusalem pacefuly thats all he never make something for his own he took everything was ready by sultan nuraddin

this is nur ad dins battle

Battle of Ba'rin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Siege of Edessa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Bosra (1147) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Siege of Damascus (1148) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Inab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Lake Huleh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of al-Buqaia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Harim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Crusader invasions of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
cuz of him second cruised turn into epic failure for europeans and most of both saladins and sultan nuraddins army made of mostly turks not arabs ! where is your prove on for that ? your Moral codes are based on JIHAD and ALLAH AKBAR while ours are based on HONOR and TURKISHNESS and yes this is the best you can do !

Yet who ruled the Islamic Caliphate for nearly 1000 years prior

lol which caliphate ruled 1000 years ? abbasid ? who have no athourty except over their city the baghdad ? as far as i remember you dont have athourty over iran in the time seljuk you lived cuz we spread your caliphate and you have rule nothing ! a real golden age start during seljuk rule who bring pace wealth all the most impotent discovery has discovered in that era including alcohol and unlike arabs we use more secular systam not fanatic islamist one

Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this person is one of the whose whom reject prophethood if were Arabized do you think he could write such things , he would killed under your rule for blasphemes

No, those were Persians. Most of the inhabitants are still Tajik. A Persian speaking people.

Anyway can you help me with those ancient Turkic civilization that gave so much to the world? Because I am afraid that nobody knows about them.

khazarz was khazar-oghuz turkic empire , seljuk and safavid architectural is something quiet different than persians surly arabs like you cant understand it all you can do is to read the wikipedia pages

 

[usernameless]

usernameless said: ↑
Yet the people who call themselves Turks today have little genetic affinity with the real Turks who live on the Central Asian Steppe and in Siberia today but they have no problem calling themselves Turk. Let alone in terms of looks.
can you prove it to me when i look myself i see we can azeris and turks of turkey are much alike !

dear bro, you quoted me, but those words are not mine
i want to search the correct post for you, but there are too many pages. i am sure it's al-hasani's words anyway

 

[Nomad16]

dear bro, you quoted me, but those words are not mine
i want to search the correct post for you, but there are too many pages. i am sure it's al-hasani's words anyway

i know brother i was quoting al hassani from page1 to 24 until i get Tired and post it when i read it i see i have made some mistake but since it's very long post it's make it very difficult to edit it so i cant fix my post nor yours in the end in this page i just wanna tell to my turkish bro i love history i read a lot of it and yet i didn't see anything more glorious and more triumph than turkish war of indecency and we proud on you

 

[al-Hasani]

There is no discussion at all. Semitic civilizations are much older, numerous, influential and contributed much more to human civilization than the few Turkic ones that ever existed.

Likewise in terms of Islamic Caliphates. The Arab Islamic Caliphates were the most numerous (3, 4 if you include the Fatimids) and the most influential and longest reigning. The by far biggest too.

Arabs owe nothing to Turks.

Oh, Arabs ruled what is now Southern and Eastern Turkey for half a millennium and large parts of Central Asia for considerable time let alone the Caucasus for centuries.

Oh, of course the ancient Middle East, cradle of civilizations, have and always will be more important than Mongolia, Kazakhstan and other with all due respect "backwater" countries.

Anyway nothing more to add or discuss. Let the Turkish sausage feast continue for all I care.

 

[usernameless]

There is no discussion at all. Semitic civilizations are much older, numerous, influential and contributed much more to human civilization than the few Turkic ones that ever existed.

Likewise in terms of Islamic Caliphates. The Arab Islamic Caliphates were the most numerous (3, 4 if you include the Fatimids) and the most influential and longest reigning. The by far biggest too.

Arabs owe nothing to Turks.

Oh, Arabs ruled what is now Southern and Eastern Turkey for half a millennium and large parts of Central Asia for considerable time let alone the Caucasus for centuries.

Oh, of course the ancient Middle East, cradle of civilizations, have and always will be more important than Mongolia, Kazakhstan and other with all due respect "backwater" countries.

Anyway nothing more to add or discuss. Let the Turkish sausage feast continue for all I care.

 

[al-Hasani]

Why should I get butthurt by mentioning simple facts that most familiar to the region's history know everything about? Your gang is butthurt that's why you had a sausage feast while I was away.

Anyway it's all fine. No hard feelings. Actually we had a Turkish housemaid and I buy my local pizza at Turkish places often here in CPH.

 

[Hakan]

There is no discussion at all. Semitic civilizations are much older, numerous, influential and contributed much more to human civilization than the few Turkic ones that ever existed.

in the end it didn't help because they were just conquered by others such as the persians, turks, british, french, Romans, Greeks.
Here are the few Turkic Civilizations
List of Turkic dynasties and countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, Arabs ruled what is now Southern and Eastern Turkey for half a millennium and large parts of Central Asia for considerable time let alone the Caucasus for centuries.

When you guys ruled southern Turkey Turks didn't even live their they were all local arabs and when you ruled parts of central asia turks didn't even live there those were mainly persians and the turks that did live their lived independently and were mercenaries.

Arabs owe nothing to Turks

We saved you guys from numerous crusading armies. (There were about 8 crusades)
We saved the Arabs in the Arabian Peninsula from the Portuguese and tried to from the British and French but people with your mentality preferred christian rule over muslim rule.
We saved the arabs in north Africa from the spanish.
Today we are taking care of syrian refugees

Oh, of course the ancient Middle East, cradle of civilizations, have and always will be more important than Mongolia, Kazakhstan and other with all due respect "backwater" countries.

Why do you think we migrated to the middle east. Obviously because it was at the time the most developed place in the world unlike today. Unfortunately your arab countries where everyone is killing each other is the real back water not central asia or turkey.

Also you are lucky @atatwolf is not here

Anyway nothing more to add or discuss. Let the troll sausage feast continue for all I care.

 

[usernameless]

Why should I get butthurt by mentioning simple facts that most familiar to the regions history know everything about? Your gang is butthurt that's why you had a sausage feast while I was away.

Anyway it's all fine. No hard feelings. Could not care less. Actually we had a Turkish housemaid and I buy my local pizza at Turkish places often here in CPH.

the fact that you keep coming back here and the fact that you started 2 threads regarding Turkey after this thread simply means that you were/are butthurt. i don't know what image you have of yourself in your mind, but most of the people (not only Turks) here know you're just being a pain in the ***, to put it in a very soft way.

your 'facts' are only your subjective false/half true 'facts'. anyway keep living in the past, as i can understand that's the only thing to be proud about for you and you know that the Arabs of nowadays are in a terrible state, to state it yet again in a soft way. if you think you can hurt us by diving in the past, you're wrong. we just laugh at your desperate futile attempts.