F16 ARE NO GOOD AGAINST THE US AIR FORCE

[gambit]

Secondary systems: Google "NCTR" - Non Cooperative Target Recognition. Used to be a very deep secret but to my great surprise was published in Aviation Week and other tech journals many years ago.

The story goes something like this...

"An experienced F-15 pilot was visiting Hughes, the guys who make the APG-63 radar. He was talking to a technician, who was looking at the waveform of a radar return. He noticed a tight series of spikes, and asked 'what are these?' 'Oh, those are the harmonics created by the rotating parts of the engine, both compressor and turbine. They vary from engine to engine. We normally filter them out as garbage.' Eureka. They created a software algorithm and database of Russian and also NATO engines. This sort of NCTR was considered a positive ID and allowed for BVR shots.

Just typing this gives me the creeps, but it is open source stuff.

NCTR in the F-15 (for example) is a technical, software-based system that analyses the returns bounced back from fan blades and turbine blades. Granted, in something like the F-22, NCTR may be altogether more sophisticated and involve multiple sensors and techniques, but that has nothing to do with JEM.

JEM, as described by USAF technical manuals, involves: "modulations from moving parts on the target, such as engine turbine blades, which can create higher order doppler returns from front or tail aspect targets which result in detections exhibiting false velocity information". JEM tracks are normally resolved automatically by the radar and data associated with them are discarded. Thus, JEM has nothing to do with EIDing a contact.

It is called the Radar Detection of Agitated Metals (RADAM) effects...

Analysis of radar detection of agitated metals (RADAM)

It has been observed that the radar returns from moving multielement metal targets often exhibit an unexpected modulation that has both random (or noise-like) and semicoherent components.

Analysis of Radar Detection of Agitated Metals (RADAM).

Abstract : The rapid discontinuous fluctuations observed in the scattering from a moving multielement target, known as the intermittent-contact RADAM effect, are produced by variations in the surface currents caused by motion-induced changes in current paths between the target elements. Such a target can be modeled as a loaded scatterer. Tracked vehicles produce very strong and distinctive RADAM modulation at VHF frequencies.

In RADAM algorithm, there is ALWAYS a pairing of signals as in one blade has its opposite, if one blade is traveling away from the observer there is one blade traveling towards the same observer -- Doppler shifts. If one element exhibit a phase shift, its opposite will exhibit an opposite phase shift. And so on. The key factor in RADAM algorithm is this pairing such as in wheel spokes, jet engine turbines, and even a walking human with rhythmic moving arms and legs. The higher the metal content the more prominent these patterns. The faster the movements the more prominent these patterns. RADAM algorithms are incorporated into high-end radar systems that can singled out helos even among strong ground clutter.

 

[MastanKhan]

Secondary systems: Google "NCTR" - Non Cooperative Target Recognition. Used to be a very deep secret but to my great surprise was published in Aviation Week and other tech journals many years ago.

The story goes something like this...

"An experienced F-15 pilot was visiting Hughes, the guys who make the APG-63 radar. He was talking to a technician, who was looking at the waveform of a radar return. He noticed a tight series of spikes, and asked 'what are these?' 'Oh, those are the harmonics created by the rotating parts of the engine, both compressor and turbine. They vary from engine to engine. We normally filter them out as garbage.' Eureka. They created a software algorithm and database of Russian and also NATO engines. This sort of NCTR was considered a positive ID and allowed for BVR shots.

Just typing this gives me the creeps, but it is open source stuff.

hi,

You are right---I also read a similiar article---but could not find it later---for a layman like me---it basically said that the radar could count the number of blades---and as different engines had different number of blades---it could co-relate it to what kind of aircraft would have that engine----and that was the article about the aesa radar and what it could do----.

I believe I posted the link on this web-site one time years ago. So---when some of our compadres were discussing two birds flying real close---looking like one on the conventional radar----the aesa could tell them apart by the signature of their fan blades---what they are---how many they are.

 

[circuitbaba]

This is really frustrating...why are we as a nation obssesed with the US.....US has no plans to attack Pakistan.....If PAkistani F-16 cannot fight against US...why r we surprised....would u sell Thunders t Iran and would want those Thunders to attack u one day...I am not saying that Iran is gonna attack Pakistan,....but still Its really foolish to act surprised when US made sure their safety....there are countless instances where PAF has said that they will use F16 as required....Its the bloody Indian media who keeps saying that we cant use them...rem they were also the ones who said we would not get a single f16 and Thunder wont fly...blah blah...REGARDING the AVM....he lost his credibilty when in another interview he said PAF could have detected Stealth AC...As far as i know our best radar is AN/TPS-77 Radar......and that cant detect....I am sure he knows that too.....but the anchor infront of him does not know so it can be sold.......Its an open secret how MAD was he when he was not made the ACM.....I guess siur Grapes ..I have been on this forum for 6 years...and have learnt that Plz Trust our Armed forces they know what they are doing...we really dont NEED to worry anymore

 

[Chogy]

^^ Correct. It benefits India to drive a wedge between the USA and Pakistan. While there was some anger (justified or not) over the whole OBL episode in the USA, and there is anger in Pakistan over things like drones and Davis, the fact remains, I still believe our goals are very much the same... the elimination of idiots who like to play with explosives and set them off in markets and Mosques.

 

[regular]

but what if US invades Pakistan? what Pakistan can do in its defence ?...can it survive from US occupation???....

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

well that would be a dooms day scnerio for all trust me on this america wont attack pakistan unless pakistan state sponsered terrorist attack america and that it self isnt going to happen but
regardless it will put immense political pressure to destroy Pakistan immensely which to isnt going to happen because it would be a great source of irritant to world powers other then it self

 

[manojb]

@ circuitbaba, indian media??? Did u ever read first post of this thread?

 

[Super Falcon]

hahahahahahaha who said F 16 is better than US airforce i think F 15 can take on two f 16 at once if capable fighter pilot riding it

 

[MaXimMaRz]

hahahahahahaha who said F 16 is better than US airforce i think F 15 can take on two f 16 at once if capable fighter pilot riding it

by this equation....The Art of war would turn into the Science of War....and i am sure we all agree that a war or even a singleton air combat is never won through such equations...

 

[untitled]

Here is another scenario

If a US pilot defects to say Cuba in an US F-16 and fighters are scrambled to shoot him down, would the interceptors see him as a friendly or a hostile ?

 

[MaXimMaRz]

As far as i know, the onboard radar is integrated with the SIF or IFF system, if you are squwaking the right code, it doesnt matter which aircraft it is ....

 

[nForce]

C/C++ and it's derivatives form a large library of computing languages, ideal for programming stuff like micro-controllers/processors....it is easy to build up on and as they say, a lot of civilians in Pakistan are also good at it...hence they can effectively increase the number of programmers working on the project, while keeping costs low.......thereby resulting in greater optimization of the embedded hardware.

NASA still uses C/C++ and sets out requirements as such for those sub-contractors making embedded devices for NASA..


In short, no need to over-complicate a simple situation.

---------- Post added at 04:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------





Why not? Armed with SD-10A/Bs, JF-17s can easily lock on the behemoth RCS of SU 30........

The languages that are normally used for programming of software used in fighter planes are ADA or Jovial,which have safety-critical support features and specially optimised for military applications.
Programming the software in C++makes the architecture more open and at the same time,more vulnerable.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Trust me US economy is in no shape to open a third front and fight another Muslim nation. US has a much higher priority to contain Iran in its nuclear ambitions and Pakistan is not that high on the priority list. A war with Pakistan will easily add 5 trillion dollars to the US burgeoning debt of 15 trillion and that would spell disaster for the US economy. Already, US credit rating has slipped to AA+ and a sharp spike in this scenario might bring it down to BBB rating ( same as India). In real terms, that would mean that the US Govt. will not be able to borrow anymore because of poor credit rating.

So all you Political Pundits please relax - This ain't gonna happen. Trust me.

 

[Mav3rick]

but what if US invades Pakistan? what Pakistan can do in its defence ?...can it survive from US occupation???....

Lol......invade 180 million people?

 

[Chogy]

There will be no invasion, no attack. Please relax. And consider the sources who are spreading such rumors. I'd look to them and ponder at their motivation.