"Extra-judicial" killings by Turkey

[TruthSeeker]

Are these actions by Turkey similar to USA drone strikes in FATA? Many here call those strikes "extra-judicial". Will Turkish drones soon follow if/when Turkey has the capability?

Reports: Turkish Jets Bomb PKK Bases in Northern Iraq

August 17, 2011, VOA News

Turkish warplanes have attacked targets of the separatist Kurdistan Workers Party in northern Iraq hours after a deadly assault by PKK rebels that killed eight Turkish soldiers in Hakkari province near the Turkey-Iraq border.

Wednesday's military strike hit bases in the Kandil and Zap regions of northern Iraq. Earlier, Defense Minister Ismet Yilmaz had vowed a strong retaliation against the PKK for its assault on Turkish forces.

The Turkish defense minister said the soldiers and a village guard were killed when their military convoy was ambushed by the PKK rebels in the country's southeast. Four roadside bombs exploded as a Turkish military convoy passed by. Eleven Turkish soldiers were also wounded in the attack.

The renewed violence comes just days after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey's "patience is running out" with the rebels, who have waged a campaign for autonomy in the largely Kurdish southeast since 1984. The conflict has killed more than 40,000 people.

Fighting between Kurdish rebels and the Turkish military has intensified in recent weeks.

In a statement Wednesday, the U.S. Embassy in Ankara expressed condolences for the soldiers and said the United States stands with Turkey in its fight against the PKK.

Turkey, the United States, and the European Union consider the PKK a terrorist group.

Earlier this month, Kurdish rebels attacked a military convoy in southeast Turkey, killing three soldiers and wounding several others. Separately, a battle in July killed 13 Turkish soldiers and seven PKK militants. Since calling off a cease-fire in February, the PKK has adopted what it calls an "active defense" stance, which allows its fighters to defend themselves if they feel threatened.

Reports: Turkish Jets Bomb PKK Bases in Northern Iraq | Middle East | English

 

[silko]

nothing new here, in fact Iran does the same. those rats can go to hell! killing innocent civilians and their own race for not agreeing with them? a bunch of hypocrits, mountain monkeys that never shaves themself and idiots.

people who supports them are no better.

they kan kill our soldiers freely but we arent allowed to take actions. turkish troops have moved in to northern Iraq to take out pkk bases there. but raining death from above is way much more better.

and this defence propaganda is pure BS... they shoot anybody they see. just search for pkk and get some info on them and you'll understand what i mean. bunch of mountain rats

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

such so called , kurd , balochs, pashtoon etc are actually paid agents who are trying to destabilize some of the prominent Muslim countries like TURKEY, PAKISTAN AND IRAN.......

 

[TruthSeeker]

So, Mr. silko, Sir,

I assume then that you fully appreciate the rationale for drone strikes in Pakistan's FATA. Would you also support the use of armed drones by Turkey against the PKK terrorists as well? Do you believe that ISAF forces have an equivalent "right" to strike into Pakistani border areas against the terrorists there who are killing innocent Afghans and ISAF forces in Afghanistan?
Are the circumstances similar?

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

So, Mr. silko, Sir,

I assume then that you fully appreciate the rationale for drone strikes in Pakistan's FATA. Would you also support the use of armed drones by Turkey against the PKK terrorists as well? Do you believe that ISAF forces have an equivalent "right" to strike into Pakistani border areas against the terrorists there who are killing innocent Afghans and ISAF forces in Afghanistan?
Are the circumstances similar?

what about those balochs and talibans who kill innocent PAKISTANIS and then escape to afghanistan under protection of afghan govt and ,may be, isaf.........

---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 AM ----------

also here PAKISTANI GOVT is ready to cooperate, if provided with technology then why isaf feel pleasure in violating our sovereignty........

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

how funny that you of all people will point fingers at others, when millions of Iraqis Afghans Pakistanis Yemenis and other groups are killed extra-judicially by NATO countries

it will be difficult for you to fool anybody here

 

[TruthSeeker]

what about those balochs and talibans who kill innocent PAKISTANIS and then escape to afghanistan under protection of afghan govt and ,may be, isaf.........

also here PAKISTANI GOVT is ready to cooperate, if provided with technology then why isaf feel pleasure in violating our sovereignty........

They are not under the protection of the Afghan government nor the ISAF. I think that if Pakistan can identify their camps in Afghanistan, then Pakistan would be justified in carrying out air strikes against them. The USA does not trust that the GoP is actually willing to strike the Haqqani network and other groups that are sheltering in Pakistan, but attacking in Afghanistan. The USA does not trust Pakistan sufficiently to hand over advanced drone systems. The Pakistanis would probably invite a hundred Chinese engineers to study them if we allowed Pakistan free control of Predator, Reaper and the like systems.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

They are not under the protection of the Afghan government nor the ISAF. I think that if Pakistan can identify their camps in Afghanistan, then Pakistan would be justified in carrying out air strikes against them

if and when the govt. authorizes such a move, the military will exercise the option

(one i am personally in favour of, actually)

The USA does not trust that the GoP is actually willing to strike the Haqqani network and other groups that are sheltering in Pakistan, but attacking in Afghanistan.

there are a plethora of taleban factions (as well as HeI and other groups) that regularly attack the foreign occupation troops

the U.S. is even engaged in back-channel talks with some of these groups, as you may be aware ---as it is seeking a dignified exit from a war it cannot (and will not) win

sad to see that all those soldiers (who also have families) were wounded and/or killed needlessly; based on false premises and unrealistic goals (dreams)

The USA does not trust Pakistan sufficiently to hand over advanced drone systems. The Pakistanis would probably invite a hundred Chinese engineers to study them if we allowed Pakistan free control of Predator, Reaper and the like systems.

the US has ignored Pakistan's legit security concerns while Pakistan granted extraordinarily generous concessions to the US (e.g. the supply routes)

I think it is by now accepted that Americans wont hand over the technology and that is why Pakistan's civilian/military UAV manufacturing industry is growing at a rapid pace

in fact the un-manned UAVs (non-armed) which the Americans offered are inferior in terms of specs/capabilities when compared to the ones Pakistan is producing on its own.

Pakistan has clearly signalled that it intends to further cooperation (defence/civilian) with China and this is an ongoing trend since the 1960s. Pakistanis have learned the hard way that American friendship comes with a price, or is often met with conditions --which if not met - mean that we face sanctions and embargos

so in that sense, Pakistan's reliance on the US will never be anywhere near what it was decades ago. Things are changing, and the amount of leverage US will have over Pakistan will soon be non-existant ---especially once there are no more puppets and ''yes-men'' in power in Islamabad.

 

[silko]

So, Mr. silko, Sir,

I assume then that you fully appreciate the rationale for drone strikes in Pakistan's FATA. Would you also support the use of armed drones by Turkey against the PKK terrorists as well? Do you believe that ISAF forces have an equivalent "right" to strike into Pakistani border areas against the terrorists there who are killing innocent Afghans and ISAF forces in Afghanistan?
Are the circumstances similar?

those are two totally different things. as far as i know we use drones to gather intel and then strike with jets, and there are far less civilian casualities here than what american forces are doing in Pakistan. i dont know why that is, but i suppose it is because they are in mountains and not populated areas like taliban.

i dont know if i would support drone attacks, but using drones to gather intel is valuable and must be used.

ISAF forces striking? as far as i know, it is only usa that does that. if USA and Pakistan had co-operated even better on this issue maybe there would be far less civilian casualities, but who knows. as of right know i dont support the drone attacks against Pakistani soil, mainly because the civilian casualities are high. if you could work on it to reduce it (i know that civilian casualities are inevitable) then i and many others might be for it!

that is pretty much my stand on it!

EDIT: i make my stand based on what i know so far, so if anything from what i have said about drone attacks in Pakistan is wrong, please tell me!

 

[silko]

such so called , kurd , balochs, pashtoon etc are actually paid agents who are trying to destabilize some of the prominent Muslim countries like TURKEY, PAKISTAN AND IRAN.......

i wouldnt say kurds are this and that, i have kurds in my family that i love and appreciate. we have had kurds in the parliament who have achieved great stuff.

it is only this idiotic mentality of bdp and pkk that they think they represent all the kurds in Turkey, when in fact most of them dont care about bdp and pkk and doesnt want to be seen as a bdp or pkk supporter.

what pkk does is kill those kurds who doesnt agree with them and doesnt vote for bdp.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Most military people have concluded that drone strikes reduce civilian casualties a huge amount as compared to a missle fired from a jet. That is because the target is watched carefully over an extended time and struck very precisely and in a location that is chosen to minimize the possibility of collateral damage. Perhaps the PKK do not shelter in homes and compounds with non-combatants. Who knows. There is no Iraqi government or "press" to tell us in the PKK areas. But drone strikes reduce collateral damage to nearly zero, unless the target is sheltering with "collateral" people. In Pakistan, the terrorists, apparently, have no qualms about sheltering with "collateral" non-combatants. But, if this is the case, what is the definition of "collateral damage'? It would be impossible to attack such combatants if one had a rule that only they could be killed. They would win every war.

 

[silko]

Most military people have concluded that drone strikes reduce civilian casualties a huge amount as compared to a missle fired from a jet. That is because the target is watched carefully over an extended time and struck very precisely and in a location that is chosen to minimize the possibility of collateral damage. Perhaps the PKK do not shelter in homes and compounds with non-combatants. Who knows. There is no Iraqi government or "press" to tell us in the PKK areas. But drone strikes reduce collateral damage to nearly zero, unless the target is sheltering with "collateral" people. In Pakistan, the terrorists, apparently, have no qualms about sheltering with "collateral" non-combatants. But, if this is the case, what is the definition of "collateral damage'? It would be impossible to attack such combatants if one had a rule that only they could be killed. They would win every war.

that is true, civilian casualities are bound to happen in war, and taliban uses humans as shield and stuff liek that. but the kurdish issue and taliba is two separate things. kurds probably doesnt shelter because they have camps in northern Iraq/kurdistan. and that they are they are from the same race. so they dont want to be called this and that. wich is a smart move, if taliban did the same, avoiding human shields then the pressure would be on usa if civilians got killed.

i dont know, since pkk camp particularily are on mountans and rural areas like that, civilian casualities are less to happen, and especiallly in the border between Turkey, Iran and Iraq,

 

[Imran Khan]

and this come from usa which killed uncountable by jets bombing even use nukes on innocents lolz.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Iraqi civilians 'killed' in Turkey air strike

Last Modified: 21 Aug 2011 21:44

Seven Iraqis have been killed in a Turkish air strike, a part of Ankara's bombing campaign against Kurdish separatist fighters in Iraq's semi-autonomous Kurdish zone, officials said.

A rocket from a Turkish plane hit a civilian lorry, killing all seven passengers on Sunday near Qalat Dizah, a town located northeast of the city of Sulaimaniya, Hasan Abdullah, the town mayor, said.

"The rocket has badly damaged the car ... We could not recognise the bodies, their ages, their identities or even their sex," Abdullah said.

Ankara has not confirmed Sunday's strike, which would be the first daylight attack.

Turkey launched a bombing campaign on Wednesday targeting suspected rebel positions across the border in Iraq, after some 40 soldiers were killed since July in stepped-up attacks by the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in southeastern Turkey.

The PKK, which the US and the European Union consider a terrorist organisation, is fighting for autonomy in the region.

Turkey's military has said the jets are targeting PKK sites only - including shelters, anti-aircraft gun positions and ammunition depots - showing "the necessary" care not to harm civilians.

The fighters have long used northern Iraq as a springboard for hit-and-run attacks on Turkish targets. The latest offensive from Turkey began hours after eight soldiers and a government-paid village guard were killed in a PKK ambush near the border with Iraq.

Turkey has carried out a number of cross-border air raids and ground incursions over the years but has failed to stop infiltration of PKK fighters through the mountainous border.

The previous offensive was last summer, when warplanes launched a series of raids on suspected PKK positions and ground troops took part in a daylong incursion.

In Turkey on Sunday, police used tear gas and pepper spray to disperse Kurdish protesters who tried to march to a main square in Istanbul to denounce the Turkish raids. In the capital, Ankara, demonstrators marched to protest the PKK.

Iraqi civilians 'killed' in Turkey air strike - Middle East - Al Jazeera English


So, Mr. silko, are these Turkish actions not equivalent to FATA drone strikes?

 

[Yeti]

India needs to learn from Turkey and bomb those jihadi terror camps in ***