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'Extinct' No Longer? Brontosaurus May Make a Comeback

thesolar65

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The Brontosaurus is back. Or at least it should be, according to a new analysis of the long-necked dinosaur family tree.


The study researchers suggest the dinosaur currently known as Apatosaurus excelsus is different enough from its Apatosaurian kin as to be a different dinosaur altogether. Because A. excelsus was famously first known as Brontosaurus until 1903, the species would revert back to that original name and become Brontosaurus once again.

It's a proposal that excites some paleontologists and leaves others skeptical, but researchers say it's entirely possible that Brontosaurus may eventually regain its place in the scientific nomenclature. [See Images of an Apatosaurus Discovery]

"The big picture is, there are independent groups of researchers looking at these dinos and these relationships, and they are independently arriving at the same conclusion, that the diversity of this family of dinosaurs is greater than previously recognized," said Matthew Mossbrucker, the director and curator of the Morrison Natural History Museum in Colorado. Mossbrucker was not involved in the new study, but is "wholly in favor of bringing the genus Brontosaurus back," he said.

Brontosaurus background

The saga of Brontosaurus is as long as this sauropod's snakelike neck. In 1877, the geologist Arthur Lakes sent paleontologist Othniel Charles Marsh some fossilized bones, which Marsh described as a new late-Jurassic sauropod, Apatosaurus ajax. In 1879, Marsh's team found another long-necked dino in the same era rock, which Marsh concluded was a different genus and species altogether — Brontosaurus excelsus.

The Brontosaurus name was not long-lasting, however. In 1903, the paleontologist Elmer Riggs determined that A. ajax and B. excelsus were more closely related than Marsh had believed. Apatosaurus, being the first named, took precedence, and Brontosaurus was no more. Instead, the dinosaur species once known as B. excelsus became A. excelsus. The Brontosaurus moniker persisted in popular culture, but not among scientists.

Not among most scientists, anyway. There have been occasional calls to re-examine the species. Paleontologist Bob Bakker, the curator of paleontology at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, has argued for a revision of the A. excelsus name since the 1990s.

"These guys should never have been lumped [together] back in 1903 or '04," Bakker told Live Science. He cites differences in the A. excelsus shoulder blade, head and neck that separate it from other Apatosaurs. But the only systematic analysis of Apatosaurus traits, published in the National Science Museum Monographs in 2004, upheld the current naming conventions.



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In this historic reconstruction, Brontosaurus is shown as a semi-aquatic animal, while Diplodocus ro …
Revising the family tree

The new research examines not only Apatosaurs, but all long-necks in the Diplodocidae family, the group that includes Apatosaurs and Diplodocuses. The researchers examined 477 different morphological traits from individual specimens found in museums in Europe and the United States. The study started simply, said lead researcher Emanuel Tschopp, a paleontologist at the Universidade Nova de Lisboa in Portugal. [6 Strange Species Discovered in Museums]

"The idea was to identify some new skeletons that there are in a museum in Switzerland down to the species," Tschopp told Live Science. "At some point, we figured out that in order to do this, we also had to revise the species taxonomy of the group because it was not known in enough detail to really see where our new specimens would belong."

Tschopp and his colleagues cataloged the differences in various bony features of Diplodocidae dinosaurs and used a statistical method to quantify how different each dino was from the others. From there, they separated the specimens into individual species and genera, or closely related groups of species.

The most provocative result was how much A. excelsus stood out.

"We found that the differences between the genus Brontosaurus and the genus Apatosaurus are so numerous that they should be kept apart as two different genera," Tschopp said.

Most notably, he said, Apatosaurus would have had a wider, more robust neck than Brontosaurus. The findings appear today (April 7) in the open-access journal PeerJ.

Dino debate

Tschopp's work did not take into account Apatosaurus excelsus' skull, because paleontologists disagree about whether a true skull of this animal has ever been found. Bakker and Mossbrucker argue there is good evidence that true skulls have been found; other paleontologists are skeptical of the field drawings and diagrams of Arthur Lakes, who found the original Apatosaurus specimens in the late 1800s.

If Bakker and Mossbrucker are right, the skulls of A. excelsus and other Apatosaurians bolster the Brontosaurus claim. The nasal chambers in A. excelsus' probable skull fossils are larger than in other species, Bakker said, which would have made its bellows higher-pitched. Its muzzle, shoulders and neck joints are different, which would have altered its maneuverability and posture, Bakker added. All of these changes mattered ecologically.

"It's important to recognize the distinctions, because this group of critters, the long-neck Apatosaurs, evolved faster than we've been giving them credit for, and they evolved in sectors of anatomy that are really interesting," Bakker said. "Why would they change their head-neck posture? Why? I suspect part of it might be social behavior, the way they signaled to each other with head flips and chin bobs."

But discerning behavior and evolution from bone shapes and features is a tricky business.

"The question for me is when we look at these changes, and we say the shape of this bone is different, the shape of that bone is different, it's hard for me to say that they are equivalent changes," said John Whitlock, a paleontologist at Mount Aloysius College, who was not involved in the study but who reviewed it for publication. For example, one change could require the alteration of 400 nucleotides of DNA, Whitlock told Live Science, and another just a couple of nucleotides.

"Evolutionarily speaking, those are not necessarily equivalent," he said.

If anything is certain, it's that bringing back Brontosaurus will require a lot more debate (and, ultimately, a ruling by the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature).

"For sure, there will be other researchers that are maybe not convinced or have their own evidence against the separation of the two," Tschopp said. "In the end, this is how science works.

@Skull and Bones @WAJsal @levina @Rain Man @anant_s @Guynextdoor2 @jbgt90 @waz @Developereo @45'22' @Akheilos @Nihonjin1051 @jarves @TimeTraveller @ranjeet and others

Anyone interested in a "Borntosaour barbeque"??
 
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I never studies Biology, so a lot of what the report says is incomprehensible to me, but it has a striking resemblance to Steven Spielberg's Jurassic park's Script.
But i have a question (could be really stupid considering my negligible knowledge in the area)
Is it possible to engineer an extinct species in lab from DNA or genetic information actually?
 
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Is it possible to engineer an extinct species in lab from DNA or genetic information actually?
In some cases!
It is possible to genetically engineer an extinct species, but a similar species should be alive..or so I think. Scientists did a similar experiment on an extinct species of a wild goat in France. They had injected the nuclei of cells (of extinct species) into a normal goat eggs, which were emptied of their own original DNA, then implanted the eggs in surrogate mothers. So i guess for the surrogate mother you do need a similar species to implant the eggs, or it might get rejected. A lioness cant give birth to a dinosaur. :)
I would like to add that it was a recently extinct species of wild goat, as in within months of its extinction the genetic engineering experiment was performed.


@thesolar65
The title was completely misleading...I thought the scientists had planned to bring some dinosaur back to life.:confused:
 
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In some cases!
It is possible to genetically engineer an extinct species, but a similar species should be alive..or so I think. Scientists did a similar experiment on an extinct species of a wild goat in France. They had injected the nuclei of cells (of extinct species) into a normal goat eggs, which were emptied of their own original DNA, then implanted the eggs in surrogate mothers. So i guess for the surrogate mother you do need a similar species to implant the eggs, or it might get rejected. A lioness cant give birth to a dinosaur. :)
I would like to add that it was a recently extinct species of wild goat, as in within months of its extinction the genetic engineering experiment was performed.

Thanks, actually thats what my curiosity was, coz if it is possible to bring back to life an extinct species, that can reverse the loss caused to bio-diversity by extinction due to hunting etc.
 
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I thought I will soon see Brontos in Alipore zoo! :P

I thought I will soon see Brontos in Alipore zoo! :P
seriously,dada:lol::lol:!A bronto and that too in the Alipur zoo:rofl::rofl::D.If that really happens in the near future then we might again witness some morons trying to get inside it's enclosure and put a garland on its neck just like what they did to "poor" Shiba:p:p:
 
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Thanks, actually thats what my curiosity was, coz if it is possible to bring back to life an extinct species, that can reverse the loss caused to bio-diversity by extinction due to hunting etc.
My assumption is it can not be applied for the DNAs of extinct species(which had become extinct long ago). Chances of bringing back an extinct species like dinosaur is close to zilch because nothing similar to dinosaur exists in today's world.
It would be very difficult to find a surrogate mother for dinosaurs.
In case of the wild goats of France, after 57 implantations, only seven animals had become pregnant. And of those seven pregnancies, six ended in miscarriages. So you see the success rate is very-very low.

I thought I will soon see Brontos in Alipore zoo! :P

I thought I will soon see Brontos in Alipore zoo! :P
Why do you have to go to the zoo? Frequent pdf and you 'll find all sorts of animals here, like the internet lions, netizen dinosaurs, ferocious bears and adorable cats. Lol
 
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I never studies Biology, so a lot of what the report says is incomprehensible to me, but it has a striking resemblance to Steven Spielberg's Jurassic park's Script.
But i have a question (could be really stupid considering my negligible knowledge in the area)
Is it possible to engineer an extinct species in lab from DNA or genetic information actually?

May be. But as of now no source confirms so.

@Oscar @Manticore
 
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Comeback ? yar change the title,got me excited there for a second.
 
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If we have a biological simulator, where we can upload the genome, and tweak the DNA base pairs and simulate the organism's biological attributes, the day we become Gods.
 
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