What's new

Everyone at fault, except us

pkpatriotic

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
2,317
Reaction score
0
In the national interest
Everyone at fault, except us
Monday, December 15, 2008
by Kamal Siddiqi


One can only wonder at the collective amnesia that Pakistanis suffer, and how the various quarters are quick to exploit our insecurities. One look at our television chat shows makes you wonder which world we live in, or, better still, which world those commentators want us to live in.

It is time that some national debate starts on the role of the electronic media in Pakistan. We cannot continue to be misinformed and misguided—the consequences for us are dire. We need some informed debate. Currently most of us are shooting in the dark.

As a nation, it is time for us to do some soul searching. Why is it that everything that goes against us becomes a conspiracy? There is always an explanation for incidents, events and happenings. The Marriott blast took place because there were Marines on the premises. Such insensitive talk only heightens the trauma for those who have lost their near and dear ones.

But we are never able to blame those who are responsible. Take, for example, our economy. If our economy falters, we do not blame the leadership—whether civilian or military. This leadership, in most instances, is responsible for misappropriation of large amounts as well as spending in the wrong places. There is money for foreign trips but not for paying the oil-marketing companies.

As Pakistanis, we don’t ask our enlightened leadership why they are shy of taxing the rich and powerful. Why is it that all Pakistanis suffer by paying high indirect taxes when what we need to do is widen our direct taxes base? When will we not bow to pressure and have a national tax register that is both representative and comprehensive.

Why does the powerful landed gentry get away without paying its dues? When was the last time we had a debate on the tax structure in Pakistan that outlined what needs to be done. We do not take to task our bureaucrats—most of whom interpret rules to harass and harangue and earn an extra buck.

Why is it that we are unable to identify corrupt government officials and take them to task? When was the last time we took a bureaucrat to the cleaners? It seems that the only people our anti-corruption machinery targets are political opponents of the government in power.

No one points a finger at our business community—a significant portion of which cheats on taxes, steals power and bribes officials to have its illegalities overlooked. Our business community under-invoices and cheats on duties. Pakistan may be the only country where containers are “smuggled” through ports after the relevant officials have been paid off. Corruption is not just rife in Pakistan, it has taken the form of an epidemic.

And yet, ask the man on the street as to who is behind Pakistan’s economic crisis, and he happily blames the IMF and says it’s a Jewish conspiracy. Nothing can be simpler than that. When will we ever get out of the tendency of blaming everyone else but ourselves?

Take the current debate on the Indian charge that Pakistan is the epicentre of terrorism. And the declaration of the Jamaat-ud-Daawa as a terror organisation. We are told on the media that the Jamaat-ud-Daawa is in fact a welfare organisation which is running schools, computer centres and madrasas. No one is willing to talk about the link with the Laskhar-e-Taiba. No one questions what the source of this organisation’s funding is. There is no debate. It’s all a conspiracy. Case closed.

The level of discourse had dropped to new lows. Led by people of the callibre of Shaikh Rasheed and Hamid Gul. One can only wonder whose side these gentlemen are batting on. From an outside view, it seems that Pakistanis are not only in self-denial, they are also a nation of war-mongers led by a government bordering on the neurotic.

We made the same mistake with the Lal Masjid issue. At that time, the role of Chaudhry Shujaat and Ejazul Haq were both murky and self-serving. The two gentlemen played a double game. As a nation, we are riddled by these closet fundamentalists who play to both sides. The consequences are borne by the common man.

Pakistanis who argue that the military operation on the Lal Masjid was wrong need to be asked what other solution was there for the militant group that inhabited that religious seminary. This group had taken Islamabad hostage by “arresting” people, by trying them in its kangaroo court, and in some instances punishing them on the spot.

Encroaching of land and government buildings, this militant group challenged the state of Pakistan. What else would we have done? Nobody is willing to talk about how many mosques have encroached over how much land all over Pakistan. Why are we silent on these basic issues?

One of the reasons why we are suffering in terms of the war on terror is because we are still unsure who the enemy is. While we are quick to take out rallies against America and we are happy to target innocent American civilians every time there is a US attack on our tribal areas, everyone turns a blind eye when suicide bombers attacks and kill innocent Pakistanis.

We are unable to identify the enemy within. The government works in fits and starts. Madam Sherry Rehman started a campaign to highlight the victims of terrorism on our home soil. But as suddenly as it appeared, it was stopped. We are told there was “pressure” from religious quarters. How can a government be cowed down so easily? Who will take up the cause of those Muslims who are killed by Muslim groups?

How sad it is that we cannot even mourn those Pakistanis who were killed for no fault of their own by groups which base their operations here. People whose near ones have been killed by militants ask whom to blame.

It is a fact that more Muslims have been killed by militants in the war on terror than any other community. In fact, since the War on Terror started, Muslims have been the biggest victims. But the aggression has come not only from the Western powers. It has come from religious groups at home.

In the Mumbai attacks as well, the number of Muslims who died was sizeable. But we continue to ignore the on-ground facts. We are still dreaming of a revolution. We want to plant the green flag on the Red Fort. Rhetoric at its best.

This is where the collective amnesia comes in. As Pakistanis we continue to fund and protect these militant organisations. There are many among us who justify their existence. We give them our Zakat and the hides of our sacrificial animals on Eid. We help fund their madrasas. We think we are making a place for ourselves in Heaven. Instead we are making our home a living hell.

Where is the government in all this? Rehman Malik cautions the media not to glorify terrorism but some quarters of the state work in tandem. We get mixed messages. One wonders who is in control. When will we have an educated and informed debate on this? For the sake of Pakistan someone has to sit up and take notice. The question is whether the present government has the will and the ability to do so.
 
.
I've have been watching this forum to see at the pakistanis' perspective and what they think. After going through many of the threads in this forum, it is clear to me that most of the users here fit the above description that the author mentions, a collective amnesia.
I also see that more and more conspiracy theories about the captured terrorist in Mumbai attacks keep popping up even now despite Pakistan and UK based papers have shown that 'Kasab' is from Faridkot, Pakistan.
 
.
I've have been watching this forum to see at the pakistanis' perspective and what they think. After going through many of the threads in this forum, it is clear to me that most of the users here fit the above description that the author mentions, a collective amnesia.
I also see that more and more conspiracy theories about the captured terrorist in Mumbai attacks keep popping up even now despite Pakistan and UK based papers have shown that 'Kasab' is from Faridkot, Pakistan.

Then you're in denial.

Noone has "shown" Kasab to be from Faridkot.

If a newspaper publishes Iraq has drones of death, and Iraq has WMD, this does not make it true.

What the newspaper (Observer) proved imo, is that there is no Kasab on the electoral roll of Faridkot. Other than that it was just Chinese whispers.

What Dawn proved was absolutely nothing. They published something online where someone claimed to have interviewed the father, who apparently has now disappeared. They even invented the name from nowhere.

I'll tell you what proof is. Proof is when you look at the electoral roll and find somebody named Qasab on it, or Kasab. No Kasab was found to live in Faridkot. The electoral rolls are free for the public to see.

My opinion is that Indians are in denial. Indian newspapers do not dare to report an Indian could be responsible for this, yet there is a strong possibility that it is true. Everyone on here has heard the Mumbai attacker speaking Hindi, the world has seen him wear a Kalava, yet Indian mainstream news has not picked up on any of this. Pakistani newspapers clearly are willing to accept responsibility, but they have not found any proof.
 
Last edited:
.
:hitwall: I already said that you can try sharing the information with the World media. Which has not happened as of now. People should have come across the Chinese media and the Pakistani media's allegation about the Red thread thing.. how come, its not yet been picked up by d world's media.
 
.
:hitwall: I already said that you can try sharing the information with the World media. Which has not happened as of now. People should have come across the Chinese media and the Pakistani media's allegation about the Red thread thing.. how come, its not yet been picked up by d world's media.

Umm. If you read most non mainstream media, they have ALL picked up on the Kalava and the Hindi speaking. The Chinese mainstream media, and the Pakistani mainstream media (perhaps Arabic and Mediterranean mainstream medias), have all picked up on it.
 
.
^^ You mean like Rupeenews? and Perhaps, you mean zAid Hamid too, for whom everything, including the existence of India is a conspiracy theory to suppress the Pakistani nation..
 
.
:hitwall: I already said that you can try sharing the information with the World media. Which has not happened as of now. People should have come across the Chinese media and the Pakistani media's allegation about the Red thread thing.. how come, its not yet been picked up by d world's media.

The one authority which counts here, that is, GoP doesn't give two hoots about the conspiracy theories people here are posting, so why worry about people here whose opinion doesn't count where it really matters.
 
.
It is amazing how everything boils down to the blame game. I don’t care what Indian media does or what Indian members post. I am however extremely worried about the mindset of my country men. Do we want peace in Pakistan? Do we want to be able to go about our daily business without being afraid of blown to bits by mindless idiots?

If the answer is yes than let’s coolly examine why the British Prime Minister stands up and says in front of every one that most terrorists originate in Pakistan. IMO the reason is that it is the truth. No matter how bitter the pull, we got to accept that Islamic terrorism in our country is having a field day. Mostly because we cannot find in our heart to accept that most of the madrassas and mosque preach ethnic and sectarian hatred. Unless we are willing to swallow this truth, Pakistan that we grew in will disappear what we will have will be another Somalia or what was in Taliban Afghanistan. I quote below an article published in today’s Dawn which states what is lie of the land. It is a pity that most Urdu Media is full of Taliban lovers. Even educated analysts such Dr Maqsood Ahmad is taking an extremely myopic view. It his program he was questioning the UN resolution.

For heavens sake! Are we members of the UN or not? Do we want to defy the whole world because we love Taliban more?




Beyond conspiracy theories

By Kaiser Bengali

THE Mumbai massacre has been a shocking event for all civilised souls across the world, including those in Pakistan.

As is always the case, the search for responsibility began and, almost immediately, fingers were pointed at Pakistan. Equally promptly, denial followed from this end.

However, the world community appears to be accepting the Indian view and Pakistan is under enormous pressure from all quarters. The government has been aware of the gravity of the situation and the complete diplomatic isolation of the country. It has acted responsibly and has taken a series of measures on the domestic and diplomatic fronts to limit the damage.

Questions arise as to who could be responsible for this barbaric act and what could have been the motive. Three classes of conspiracy theories can be discerned. One, there is the Indian view that the perpetrators were Pakistanis and the attack originated in Pakistan. It is stated that Pakistan has been using non-state actors since the 1980s to forward its regional agenda in Afghanistan and Kashmir. In Afghanistan, their motive was to bring down the pro-Soviet, pro-India regime and to install a pro-Pakistan dispensation.

Post-2001 it is stated that these non-state actors have been operating with the support of rogue elements within the country’s intelligence agencies, meaning without official sanction. Their theatre of operation is now limited to Kashmir and to the occupying power, India, with the objective of bleeding India to the point of conceding Kashmir.

The second view is that the Mumbai attacks were executed by the Indian intelligence. India, it is said, has been unnerved by the sustained peaceful agitation for independence in Kashmir, aggravated by the sharp communal split in the held state. India’s claim that the Mumbai attackers had trained in camps in Azad Kashmir as well as implied threats that India could launch attacks on such camps are noteworthy in this respect. It is suggested that a successful Indian military operation in Kashmir would effectively exclude Pakistan as a party to the dispute and weaken the independence movement therein to enable India to force a political settlement on its own terms.

The third view is that the Mumbai operation was part of an Indo-Israeli-US conspiracy with the larger objective of denuclearising Pakistan. The immediate objective could be to prove to the world that the Pakistani security establishment is incapable of controlling the militant establishment which can hijack the country’s nuclear arsenal. If this is indeed the case, one can expect more such sponsored attacks.

The latter explanations may sound preposterous, given that half a dozen US and Israeli citizens and more than 100 Indians have been killed. This kind of modus operandi is, however, not unknown in the world of covert intelligence operations. Of course, it was necessary for the nature and scale of the attack to be audacious, the targets high profile and symbolic, and the death toll high if the desired ends were to be attained. The actual involvement of Pakistani nationals is irrelevant. Anybody in the world could have covertly hired any number of Pakistanis to carry out the operation for them.

Herein lies the catch for Pakistan. Of the above three scenarios, all of them may be true, none of them may be true, or some of them may be partly true. That, however, is not relevant. What is relevant is the fact that Pakistanis could have been hired by foreign elements. This implies that there are enough Pakistanis with the necessary ideological mentoring to be available for jihadist operations. And these jihadis do not emerge as individual products.

Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organisational, financial and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the jihadis. Clearly, such an infrastructure cannot exist and operate without an element of tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state agencies. Otherwise, how is it possible that sophisticated arms can be stockpiled in the centre of the capital city, Islamabad, enabling the ‘students’ of Lal Masjid/Jamia Hafsa to fight the Pakistan Army for days?

How is it possible that A.Q. Khan can engage in worldwide nuclear smuggling without the intelligence agencies deputed to protect him failing to discover his operations? How is it possible that hundreds of firearms are brought out and liberally used in clashes in Karachi and the intelligence agencies cannot identify the source and supply channels of such arms?

Apart from the bloody mayhem these outfits may or may not be causing in neighbouring countries, they have certainly torn Pakistani society apart.

Either the nation’s intelligence agencies are completely incompetent or totally complicit. If it is the former, then the country is in mortal danger. If a mere imam of a mosque can stockpile arms or if a high-security state official can smuggle sensitive material out of the country then it must be equally possible for an enemy country to smuggle in its agents and arms for internal sabotage in the event of a war. If it is the latter, then the criminal adventurism of the self-styled protectors of national interest is bestowing on the country international disdain and endangering its stability and security.

In the 1980s, the ‘non-state actors’ paradigm was used within the ambit of the US and western global strategy. Understandably, no aspersions were cast internationally with respect to the legitimacy of the means being employed. Of course, the paradigm was irresponsible and criminal then and is equally so now. The difference is that, in the current global scenario, US patronage is no longer available and this paradigm is simply unacceptable. The cost that Pakistan will have to pay for continuing such a course of action will be exorbitant.

It is likely that the stage can be set for US-led international forces to carry out an operation aimed at eliminating the presumed capacity to mount terrorist operations abroad — and to prevent nuclear weapons from falling into the wrong hands. Given, however, that India will be a partner in any such operation, an attempt will be made to disable our intelligence capability altogether. The implications for national security will be grave.

It would, therefore, be prudent for the country’s security leadership to undertake to renounce the highly counterproductive use of non-state actors as a policy tool and launch a full-fledged clean-up operation on their own initiative. An operation of some sort is currently underway. That is not sufficient. The leadership of jihadi organisations may appear fierce with their bushy beards and fiery rhetoric. However, a more potent danger is posed by their handlers. Pakistan’s security demands that these handlers be neutralised.
DAWN - Opinion; December 15, 2008
 
.
Niaz you have raised some very good points. Governments of both India and Pakistan will keep fighting but we as responsible citizens should try and see what the truth is and question our governments and ask them what they are saying is true or not.

Pakistan should act against non state elements in its territory not because India is asking it but because it is in Pakistani interest to eliminate them for safer Pakistan similarly India should act against fundamentalist in its territory.

I have read more conspiracy theories on this forum than anywhere else. There is a famous quote "the ultimate thing that any government wants to control is its peoples thought". If this forum is representation of people in Pakistan then I must say they have been pretty successful.
 
Last edited:
.
I have read more conspiracy theories on this forum than everywhere else. There is a famous quote "the ultimate thing that any government wants to control is its peoples thought". If this forum is representation of people in Pakistan then I must say they have been pretty successful.

Who are you to judge people in Pakistan? Were you involved in Mumbai, do you know the truth? Are you a shiv sena girl scout? Fill us in mate.
 
.
cooldude,

There are no conspiracy theories. The only conspiracy theories we have seen so far has been originated from the Indian media. This is how they almost took India to war against Pakistan (violation of air space). Zaid Hamid, etc.. they are alone in their opinions, while your media, your head media is the processor of conspiracy theories against Pakistan. So please stop whining and shut up.
 
.
cooldude,

There are no conspiracy theories. The only conspiracy theories we have seen so far has been originated from the Indian media. This is how they almost took India to war against Pakistan (violation of air space). Zaid Hamid, etc.. they are alone in their opinions, while your media, your head media is the processor of conspiracy theories against Pakistan. So please stop whining and shut up.

Read the first article for few of the conspiracy theories in Pakistan. Most of theories of Indian media find support in US, UK, France, australia and south african media. Entire WORLD blames pakistan you just cant deny it. Everyone at fault except you

I am not saying everything Indian media says is true but you should also not believe pakistani media and leaders blindly.
 
.
Who are you to judge people in Pakistan? Were you involved in Mumbai, do you know the truth? Are you a shiv sena girl scout? Fill us in mate.

No i was not involved in the attacks but how can you say that your version of attack is true. Were you involved in the attacks??? Dude dont talk like a stupid.
 
.
No i was not involved in the attacks but how can you say that your version of attack is true. Were you involved in the attacks??? Dude dont talk like a stupid.

The only one talking like "a stupid" here is you girl scout, my love.

Avoid referring to me as "dude" in the future as well, I have a short temper around here.

:smitten:
 
.
From my POV, there is a difference between asking for due process and the rule of law and refusing to even consider that JuD could be behind the Mumbai attacks.

My position has been clear - under no circumstances am I in support of creating a Pakistan Guantanamo Bay or extraordinary rendition program. If someone is alleged to have committed a crime, then they should have their day in court, and if guilty, punished to the extent the law allows for.

Pakistani society has lost a lot of faith in the system and the rule of law, and continued abuse and circumvention of the law by those with power and influence has been one of the reasons behind it.

As flawed as the system is, continuing to abuse it and circumvent it is only going to make the situation worse, and therefore at every step and in every situation the citizens of Pakistan need to demand adherence to our constitution.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom