Eurojet leaves TFX engine bid

[Pax Ottomana]

Looks like Eurojet is no longer in the TFX engine tender. Yup! Our trusty-old European allies are again proving their "reliability" insisting that Turkey doesn't receive any tech-transfer or own any rights to the engine.

Türkiye’nin Milli Muharip Uçak Programında(TF-X) motoru sağlamak üzere rekabet eden katılımcılardan biri ihaleden çekildi. C4Defence’in edindiği bilgiye göre Eurofighter uçağına güç sağlayan EJ200 motorunun üreticisi Eurojet Konsorsiyumu artık rekabette yer almıyor. EJ200 motorunu üreten Almanya merkezli Eurojet Konsorsiyumu uzun süredir bu kararı tartışır durumdaydı. Firma, EJ200’ü Türkiye’nin talebine göre geliştirme, eğer talep edilen geliştirme Eurofighter’ların ihtiyaç duyacağı güçlendirme ile eşleşirse bunu birlikte değerlendirme iş modeli ile ihaleye katılmıştı. Türkiye’nin firmalardan talebi değişince konsorsiyum da ihaleye katılımı sorgular duruma geldi. Türkiye, Temmuz ayında bir çalıştay düzenleyerek yeni bir motorun sıfırdan T-Fx için tasarlaması şartıyla katılım talep etti. Birinci ve ikinci Teklife Çağrı Dosyaları (TÇD) bu durumda büyük değişiklik gösterdi. Eurojet son TÇD’ye resmi bir yanıt vermedi çünkü firmanın geçmişte açıkladığı hareket planına göre elinde iş gören iyi bir motor zaten varken yenisini tasarlamaya gerek görmedi. Firmanın bu güne kadar izlediği sessiz kalma politikası bu bilgiler ışığında analiz edildiğinde motora ilişkin yeni ileri sürülen bazı şartların kalkması halinde firmanın tekrar masaya oturmak istediği öngörülebilir.

EJ200 motoru Rolls-Royce’un XG-40 motoru baz alınarak geliştirilmişti. Eurojet konsorsiyumu Rolls-Royce, MTU Aero Engines, Avio Aero ve ITP firmalarından oluşuyor.

http://www.c4defence.com/Gundem/eurojet-tfxden-cekildi/5287/1

 

[BHarwana]

There is an old saying "Get education even if you have to go to China" WS-15 code name Emei

 

[Path-Finder]

What other options are there?

 

[BHarwana]

What other options are there?

for 5th generation none for 4.5 many.

 

[Nefarious]

Who's left in the running?

 

[jupiter2007]

May need to ask Russia for help.

 

[Hyperion]

No one gives anyone engine tech. If someone believes so is a fool. Simple as that.

 

[era_shield]

I assumed as much when the specs came out showing they wanted 2 x 20k lbs engines which the EJ-2x0 can't provide. Rolls Royce I think will provide the engines or design assistance to develop new engines.

 

[Path-Finder]

What other options are there?

Maybe Rolls Royce and not Eurojet consortium can help. who knows.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Does this mean the project is dead? What are our options?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Eurojet was (is) a consortium that included Rolls-Royce. In fact EJ200 is based on Rolls-Royce's XG-20 engine architecture. It's possible but I just don't see Rolls-Royce making Turkey a different/separate offer outside of Eurojet. I think Turkey will end up cancelling the engine tender, revising terms/requirements and then re-launching a new tender more in line with the views of our European "partners" given how BAE remains a primary design consultant. I think this move is by no means final and they'll likely forge a new deal in a year or two as more details emerge regarding the TF-X.

Having said that, the Yanks may also see an opportunity and make a move. Pratt & Whitney has joint investments with Turkey's Kale Aero manufacturing engine parts for the F-35. GE has recently (2015) opened an "innovation center" in Turkey. This mean Turkey can ==should-- pin the players against each other and try to improve the terms in its favor. I guess time will tell.

Also, I don't believe Russian engines are a realistic option but we can't completely rule out the possibility given the recent paradigm shifts in Turkey's geopolitical strategies in the region. (e.g. S-400, etc.)

 

[era_shield]

Eurojet was (is) a consortium that included Rolls-Royce. In fact EJ200 is based on Rolls-Royce's XG-20 engine architecture. It's possible but I just don't see Rolls-Royce making Turkey a different/separate offer outside of Eurojet. I think Turkey will end up cancelling the engine tender, revising terms/requirements and then re-launching a new tender more in line with the views of our European "partners" given how BAE remains a primary design consultant. I think this move is by no means final and they'll likely forge a new deal in a year or two as more details emerge regarding the TF-X.

Having said that, the Yanks may also see an opportunity and make a move. Pratt & Whitney has joint investments with Turkey's Kale Aero manufacturing engine parts for the F-35. GE has recently (2015) opened an "innovation center" in Turkey. This mean Turkey can ==should-- pin the players against each other and try to improve the terms in its favor. I guess time will tell.

Also, I don't believe Russian engines are a realistic option but we can't completely rule out the possibility given the recent paradigm shifts in Turkey's geopolitical strategies in the region. (e.g. S-400, etc.)

Rolls Royce independently signed some kind of MoU related to jet engine development a few months ago.

Edit: link.

 

[Maxpane]

whats now

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Rolls Royce independently signed some kind of MoU related to jet engine development a few months ago.

Edit: link.

Hi @era_shield I can't seem to find a mention of a MoU for joint engine development in the link you shared. It's talking about a general "umbrella license" that the UK is using to enable its companies to work on the TFX unabated. AFAIK, Rolls-Royce was always pitching the EJ200 and don't currently have a replacement offer.

Unless GE or P&W steps in and "makes an offer we cannot refuse", I think the most likely outcome is still EJ200 but with renewed terms.

 

[era_shield]

Hi @era_shield I can't seem to find a mention of a MoU for joint engine development in the link you shared. It's talking about a general "umbrella license" that the UK is using to enable its companies to work on the TFX unabated. AFAIK, Rolls-Royce was always pitching the EJ200 and don't currently have a replacement offer.

Unless GE or P&W steps in and "makes an offer we cannot refuse", I think the most likely outcome is still EJ200 but with renewed terms.

I think I might've been remembering this: https://quwa.org/2017/05/09/turkish...-rolls-royce-develop-aircraft-engines-turkey/

My guess is RR will offer one of their existing or mothballed designs, or a modified version of one. They have the tech and experience to offer a suitable engine in a short enough time frame.