Eurofighter confirm 2015 as entry date for aesa

[angeldemon_007]

After one year of industry funding, the Eurofighter and Euroradar consortia have received renewed strong support from the Partner Nations and have agreed to continue the full scale development programme of the next generation E-Scan radar, confirming the 2015 entry into service date.
Supported by the Eurofighter partner nations: the United Kingdom, Italy, Germany and Spain, Eurofighter GmbH and Euroradar began full scale development of the new CAPTOR-E radar in July 2010.

The new radar will have AESA capability that far exceeds any other radar available today and in the foreseeable future and will be developed to satisfy the requirements of the Partner Nations and customers across the globe.

The new radar will retain the key features of the existing market leading Captor-M radar in order to exploit the maturity of the current system, using latest generation technology to provide further advanced performance. The Typhoon’s AESA radar will offer a variety of benefits over M-Scan, including increased detection and tracking ranges, advanced air-to-surface capability and enhanced electronic protection measures.

The new AESA array, larger than the ones available to our competitors thanks to the Typhoon’s voluminous radome, will be fitted on a repositioner that will provide a wider field of regard when compared to those installed or scheduled for introduction on other fighters.

The new radar will offer customers the freedom to retrofit their existing Typhoons when required. The radar will have significant growth potential and both existing and new customers will be able to participate in tailoring the radar to meet their individual operational requirements.

The new AESA Radar is part of the platform and systems enhancement ongoing with Eurofighter to ensure Typhoon leads the way as the world’s best new generation multi-role combat aircraft.'

Eurofighter:  News Detail

 

[Roybot]

Wouldn't that be a bit late for MMRCA? Does Rafale have AESA yet?

 

[Jon Snow]

Wouldn't that be a bit late for MMRCA? Does Rafale have AESA yet?

rafale aesa radar will enter serial production by late 2012 or early 2013- but many sources agree that despite being late the eft aesa will be better, having larger no of t/r modules and greater range than the rbe 2 aesa

 

[tvsram1992]

Now we get best of offers from Europe as US may offer us F-35.

 

[sancho]

Wouldn't that be a bit late for MMRCA? Does Rafale have AESA yet?

Yes, because the first squadron according the RFP has to be delivered in 2014 (when the deal is fixed this year), which then could only be EF T3As, with the normal Captor M puls doppler radar. But that alone isn't the issue, but that no partner country will fund the AESA development yet, it will be completely pre-funded by the EF consortium companies and if India joins as a partner of the EF, we have to take a share of this development as well => additional costs!
There is also a major problem on the operational side for IAF, because the 2015 timeline is just a planed figure, if the first fligh of the new demo radar in 2013 will be done without problems and there will be no delays in the final development and production, but the risk is very high! The EF consortium already stated that the radar by 2015 will only have limited radar modes (aviationweek reported last year from Farnborough, that it will have only A2A modes at the beginin)!!!

So compared the the French offer, this means IAF would have to deal with higher costs, risks of delays, reduced capabilities and of course the normal problems every immature and barely tested system will have. The only real advantage is the longer detection range, while the French system although "speculated" to have the lowest number of T/R modules seems to meet IAF requirements, because no issues on the Rafale radar were reported so far.

rafale aesa radar will enter serial production by late 2012 or early 2013- but many sources agree that despite being late the eft aesa will be better, having larger no of t/r modules and greater range than the rbe 2 aesa

That's not correct, the RBE 2 AESA is already in production, the final qualification will be in 2012 and the first Rafale with AESA will be inducted in 2013, the same time when the Captor E demo is planed to make it's first flight.

 

[Jon Snow]

yes, we will have to pay for development of the eft aesa..... but as will be part of the development effort it will also help us in developing our own indigenous aesa.... and the radar will be tailored to our needs, as stated in the article.
plus we will get the radar at the price which is for the development partners- this price is normally significantly lower than what is offered to customers.
True there can be delays in the project, but there can be delays in the rafale program too.....
also @ sancho - last i heard the aesa radar for the rafale which is being produced right now uses t/r modules which are imported from the US, aernt they subject to the whims of the us govt.?? cant the US refuse their sale to india?

 

[sancho]

yes, we will have to pay for development of the eft aesa..... but as will be part of the development effort it will also help us in developing our own indigenous aesa.... and the radar will be tailored to our needs, as stated in the article.

That's a myth, we have to understand that we are no developing partner of the EF programm. The fighter is already developed and these upgrades, be it TVC, AESA radar, or even CFTs are under (limited) development for years. The participation from Indian industry on them will be mainly in the production to reduce costs and not in the R&D anymore.
The only real R&D that is left in the EF are upgrade of later stages like the MLU, or the Sea Typhoon variant, that's why the most ToT will come from that version.
Tailormade means, if we want additional modes, that the initial partners don't need (air to sea for example), we can have them for additional costs. Just like the UAE now is funding additional radar modes for the RBE 2 AESA, so you don't have to be a partner to get that, just provide the fundings.

plus we will get the radar at the price which is for the development partners- this price is normally significantly lower than what is offered to customers.

Because we pay for the development instead, while the Rafale radar is already developed and funded by France.

True there can be delays in the project, but there can be delays in the rafale program too...

How? The upgrade is developed and even started production, while the T3As the EF partners ordered get just some new software to add new techs and weapons in future. AESA development is just in the early stage and even the final demo radar is not available, which makes even the Mig 35 and Gripen NG ahead of the EF in this field.

also @ sancho - last i heard the aesa radar for the rafale which is being produced right now uses t/r modules which are imported from the US, aernt they subject to the whims of the us govt.?? cant the US refuse their sale to india?

The modules are from EADS (early TD radars had US modules as far as I know), France get only minor parts from the US to reduce costs and according to the wikileakes from Brazil, everything the French offers is according the US laws unlike the EF, where BAE was recently fined because they offered US techs to export customers without approval.

 

[kish]

yes, we will have to pay for development of the eft aesa..... but as will be part of the development effort it will also help us in developing our own indigenous aesa.... and the radar will be tailored to our needs, as stated in the article.
plus we will get the radar at the price which is for the development partners- this price is normally significantly lower than what is offered to customers.
True there can be delays in the project, but there can be delays in the rafale program too.....
also @ sancho - last i heard the aesa radar for the rafale which is being produced right now uses t/r modules which are imported from the US, aernt they subject to the whims of the us govt.?? cant the US refuse their sale to india?

The TR module is main key of aesa radar . . They are main difference between aesa radar and pesa where pesa use slotted antenna array and aesa use GaAs TR module ... . . . . So If they dont have TR module . . . They cant have aesa soon . . .

 

[misterme2]

Sancho we know you are pretty biased towards the French. Come on we want the better plane for India. EFT all the way, partnership in plane development, expenses shared between mulitple partners, and a prior sticking point was no AESA is no being fixed. Couldn;t the modules subject to US approval be developed by the consortium and produced in India to reduce costs and dependence? French AESA has no reported problems because the French will hide any problems! The French already developed it so whats the benefit for our industry? Will the French give us AESA?

 

[KEETARP]

Rather than purchasing mediocre 800 module AESA of Rafale , we should wait for 2015 to get a decent swashplate AESA radar with Electronic warfare capability .
EA version of CAPTOR will be only one comparable to APG79 in performance which is a gem .

 

[Dash]

Sancho we know you are pretty biased towards the French. Come on we want the better plane for India. EFT all the way, partnership in plane development, expenses shared between mulitple partners, and a prior sticking point was no AESA is no being fixed. Couldn;t the modules subject to US approval be developed by the consortium and produced in India to reduce costs and dependence? French AESA has no reported problems because the French will hide any problems! The French already developed it so whats the benefit for our industry? Will the French give us AESA?

No intention to cut off your talk with Sancho.

However my question is why do you want to have developement partnership for a 4.5 plane, when you are going for 5th gen planes. You already made a 4 Gen plane called LCA minus the engine and AESA, partnership for thoese parts will make sense not the whole plane.
and I know for AESA - Its Israel and for Engine its France, why will go partner again with EFC?

4th Gen plane(LCA)+AESA(Israel) and supercruise(DRDO+Snechma)+Some more avionics = 4.5 Gen plane. We got what we wanted.
5th Gen - Russia plus AMCA..

Its all planned, No EFC. However it could be, but not at all for the fact that this partnership will be benificial for us...what benifits? TVC? is that all we want?

 

[sancho]

Sancho we know you are pretty biased towards the French. Come on we want the better plane for India. EFT all the way, partnership in plane development, expenses shared between mulitple partners, and a prior sticking point was no AESA is no being fixed. Couldn;t the modules subject to US approval be developed by the consortium and produced in India to reduce costs and dependence? French AESA has no reported problems because the French will hide any problems! The French already developed it so whats the benefit for our industry? Will the French give us AESA?

Am I? Don't think so, I just want the best for our forces and our industry, that's why I prefer Rafale in MMRCA, A330 MRTT in the tanker competition, the Mi 26-T2 in the heavy lift helicopter competition and the Apache in the heavy combat helicopter competition. It's not the origin that is important, but the outcome for India!

The advantage of the French for AESA radar are clear, they are 3 to 5 years ahead of the EF consortium, the French government has shown more commitment behind the radar, because they funded the development years ago, had ordered the first 60 fighters with AESA radar and already funded further developments for GaN modules and up to 360° coverage. The RBE 2 detects and engages more targets than the EF radar, which leaves the Captor only with the advantage of some more range, but that was even a calculated compromise by the French, because the size of the nose is not the limiting factor, but the integration of FSO!
France offered full ToT of the AESA radar + source codes from the start, while the other competitiors just followed later.

In comparison, the EF radar development is 90% privately pre-funded by the EF consortium, the partner countries don't commited themself on the radar development so far, they don't cleared the procurement of a single EF with AESA and most likely will upgrade their older fighters only with it during MLU.

Another important difference that IAF will feel, the RBE 2 AESA in Rafale will be fully tested and proven by 2015, while the Captor E, if ready by then, will be rushed into production because of MMRCA. It will be immature and according the reports limited capable with A2A modes only at the begining!

The only reason why people think the EF radar, or the EF in general is superior is based on paper specs on wiki, or features that wer planed in the past, but never was developed, or integrated.
The Captor E might offer more radar range on paper, but it is not developed, or will see operational service anytime soon and that is the other side of the mirrow that one has to see as well.