DRDO reports guided bomb progress

[thestringshredder]

India has conducted two successful trials of the indigenous guidance and glide bomb kits it has developed for 100, 250, and 500 kg bombs, and development trials could be completed by the end of 2014. Vijay Kumar Saraswat, the outgoing head of India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), has cited the trials as being among the successes of his tenure.

The performance of the DRDO has recently been criticised. During a speech delivered at the organisation’s annual awards ceremony in New Delhi on 30 May that also marked the appointment of Avinash Chander as the DRDO’s new director general, India’s defence minister, AK Anthony, publicly challenged the organisation, saying that it must “perform or perish”.

Link - DRDO reports guided bomb progress | idrw.org

 

[confound thinker]

Great Job. This is really important because in future we atlest need all out ammunition to be indigenous.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hmm @sancho how do you read this news? Great- right? Could cancel out the need for the SPICE 250 for Indian forces beyond 2015/16.

 

[Dillinger]

Hmm @sancho how do you read this news? Great- right? Could cancel out the need for the SPICE 250 for Indian forces beyond 2015/16.

SPICE is a whole different beast and the sudharshan is a simple LGB..man in the loop is the key word here.

IF the IRNSS/GPS receivers are added to the Sudharshan laser guidance kit in a new build PGM along with semi-active laser homing capacity (basic sudharshan kit) then ya. But not as long as it is used only as an add on kit for older bombs. Add a glide kit with boosters too. The Sudharshan kit already provides the most crucial bit all we need is to build a PGM around it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

SPICE is a whole different beast and the sudharshan is a simple LGB..man in the loop is the key word here.

IF the IRNSS/GPS receivers are added to the Sudharshan laser guidance kit in a new build PGM along with semi-active laser homing capacity then ya. But not as long as it is used only as an add on kit for older bombs. Add a glide kit with boosters too. The Sudharshan kit already provides the most crucial bit all we need is to build a PGM around it.

You are 100% right. I didn't make myself clear, sorry. I meant that building on these individual success, bring them together, throw in a few new goodies (IRNSS/GPS/GLONASS guidance and laser homing tech) and you have a rival to the SPICE and a truly indigenous system that does away the need for imports.

 

[Dillinger]

You are 100% right. I didn't make myself clear, sorry. I meant that building on these individual success, bring them together, throw in a few new goodies (IRNSS/GPS/GLONASS guidance and laser homing tech) and you have a rival to the SPICE and a truly indigenous system that does away the need for imports.

Tell that to the Babus, tell me the Astra has the same range as the Akash interceptor when launched from sea level and actually has a damn seeker and a good one at that unlike the akash interceptor (which uses command guidance all the way and weighs at least 4 times the weight of the Astra) BUT..did the MOD/DRDO think of building a SRSAM version? NOPE! Again now the Astra is being used as the base for an ARM, a decision which should have been taken years ago when the Astra was conceived. The Ashwin interceptor went the same way..between sensor systems like the Arudhra and the Ashwin interceptor we'd have one of the most formidable ADGE components. Worst part the Ashwin would be the same as the AAD with just software changes and compatibility with the new sensor (a sensor which we ALREADY have).

Yes, none of the above would be as simple as what I am sounding like, but it was also doable but.......

 

[Abingdonboy]

Tell that to the Babus, tell me the Astra has the same range as the Akash interceptor when launched from sea level and actually has a damn seeker and a good one at that unlike the akash interceptor (which uses command guidance all the way and weighs at least 4 times the weight of the Astra) BUT..did the MOD/DRDO think of building a SRSAM version? NOPE! Again now the Astra is being used as the base for an ARM, a decision which should have been taken years ago when the Astra was conceived. The Ashwin interceptor went the same way..between sensor systems like the Arudhra and the Ashwin interceptor we'd have one of the most formidable ADGE components. Worst part the Ashwin would be the same as the AAD with just software changes and compatibility with the new sensor (a sensor which we ALREADY have).

Yes, none of the above would be as simple as what I am sounding like, but it was also doable but.......

You're right on all points but we are merely outsiders- we cannot comment on all these cases and be so blaze about it. Like I said to you yesterday- ifs and buts are all well and good but let's stop looking back and look to the future.


The future looks good as long as certain things come together and,right now, I see no reason why they won't.

 

[Dillinger]

You're right on all points but we are merely outsiders- we cannot comment on all these cases and be so blaze about it. Like I said to you yesterday- ifs and buts are all well and good but let's stop looking back and look to the future.


The future looks good as long as certain things come together and,right now, I see no reason why they won't.

Obviously the future looks good. This is India after all, destiny is on our side.

Btw the AAD intercepted an IRBM at 15000 meters altitude with a speed of just 4.5 mach, gives you a hint of certain systems and their exaggerated capabilities- you know what I mean.

 

[sancho]

Hmm @sancho how do you read this news? Great- right? Could cancel out the need for the SPICE 250 for Indian forces beyond 2015/16.

At first, any report that has statments of Mr Saraswat in it should be taken cautiously.
Secondly, it's a good development and needed for the long term, just like Astra, Helina, CLGB..., but they need to be fully developed and integrated, before we know about their real performance in comparision to others. Having developed an LGB alone doesn't mean it is as good as others right? When you look at the specs of some of the Indian weapons under development, they often are not as good as western counterparts, be it wrt CEP, higher weights, or less range. So only we have an India version, doesn't necessarily rule out a foreign addition.
I would love to see Rafale with Helina triple launchers, Sudarshan LGBs instead of US once, as well as stand off version with sat guidance. That would make us less dependable from foreign weapon supplies and would reduce the operational costs of Rafale too, but at the end the quality is important and not that the weapon is Indian.

 

[sancho]

SPICE is a whole different beast and the sudharshan is a simple LGB.

Not exactly, since the talk in the article seems to be about the range extended kit with retractable wings, which is comparable to the SPICE kits. The difference or the advantage for the SPICE might be the guidance system, but we don't have much infos about Sudarshan yet to compare it completely.

Last reliable infos I found:

...A next-generation bomb (NG-LGB) studded with new technologies is in the pipeline, but the scientists need to address the problem of rolling of the bomb, after its release. “The range of Sudrashan now is around 9 km, if dropped from a normal altitude, and for the NG-LGB we hope to increase the range to 50 km,” he said.
The IAF wants the circular error probability (CEP) of the LGB between 3 to 5 meters and ADE scientists are now working to achieve the same. Currently the CEP for Sudarshan is within the 10 meters. (CEP is measurement of a weapon’s precision.)...

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: IAF wants 50 swift & sure Sudarshan LGBs from ADE | Scientists at it to get CEP within 3-5 meters

 

[Dillinger]

Not exactly, since the talk in the article seems to be about the range extended kit with retractable wings, which is comparable to the SPICE kits. The difference or the advantage for the SPICE might be the guidance system, but we don't have much infos about Sudarshan yet to compare it completely.

Last reliable infos I found:



Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: IAF wants 50 swift & sure Sudarshan LGBs from ADE | Scientists at it to get CEP within 3-5 meters

The difference occurs when you consider that the SPICE has the CCD and GPS/INS along with regular IIR in its guidance system. The Sudarshan only has the IRR atm as far as we know, that's why I said that once IRNSS/GPS receivers with INS is added to the Sudharshan kit along with the glide wings and other range extension measures then yes the the NG-LGB will do wonders..BUT it is only on the drawing board, even a prototype is yet to come out.

I hate quoting wiki but needs must-

Second, if the CCD\IIR seeker can not acquire its target for any reason (such as visual obstructions), the bomb can automatically switch to GPS\INS guidance. This means that the bomb aspires to bring itself to the target's altitude at a known geographical location. The bomb receives data on its current location from GPS satellites, or from an inertial navigation system in the bomb itself, that has been fed, through the pylon datalink, with the dropping aircraft's coordinates a fraction of a second before drop, and can therefore calculate its own coordinates from the dropping time and on.
Third, there is a manual "man-in-the-loop" guidance option, in which the WSO looks at a backseat TV display in order to see the seeker's view (sent to him through a RF datalink) and uses the backseat stick to control the bomb all the way to the target. With a skilled WSO that has a "sensitive hand", this guidance method is probably the most accurate one employed today for air-dropped munitions, and has no measurable miss distance. Its main drawback is that it allows for only one bomb to be guided at a time.

 

[Dillinger]

@sancho @Abingdonboy Once in the next 4 or so years we can add all of the above for a finished product like the Spice 1000 (pictured below) then yes, besides the SPICE is expensive so it will not be bought in large numbers. As and when the NG-LGB comes out then we will see, hopefully they will go for the full bang, it would be a shame not to integrate IRNSS receivers on to it.

 

[Gessler]

@sancho

Yea I too heard of the 50km NG-LGB a while back. Is it supposed to come with
rocket propulsion? Otherwise I don't think it can accurately glide it's way onto a
target 50km away...

 

[sancho]

besides the SPICE is expensive so it will not be bought in large numbers.

SPICE is surely more expensive than a normal Paveway, Griffin or Sudarshan LGB, but because it's also far more capable! So the cost isn't a deal breaker for larger numbers imo, it's more interesting to see which versions of SPICE will be procured and for what purpose. So far we only know about the SPICE 2000s, which are heavy PGMs for hardened and high value targets, that also will be carried only in small numbers. Depending on which fighters will get them, their numbers should be relatively small.
If the SPICE 250 on the other side would be ordered, the numbers would be high, since we definitely would order the quadpylon too. Even M2K or LCA would carry 4 of them in a strike mission, while a Rafale and a MKI could carry one or even two dozen!

 

[sancho]

@sancho

Yea I too heard of the 50km NG-LGB a while back. Is it supposed to come with
rocket propulsion? Otherwise I don't think it can accurately glide it's way onto a
target 50km away...

No, with a retractable wing, comparable to the SPICE kits:

Launched at high altitude these kind of wings can extend the glide phase to 50 or more Km. The SPICE kits for example are estimated around 60 to 100Km depending in version.