What's new

Doklam again: India must brace for a more dominant China

Feng Leng

BANNED
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
4,355
Reaction score
-21
Country
China
Location
China
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/dokla...ina-ties-one-belt-one-road/story/1/20099.html

Doklam again: India must brace for a more dominant China
If New Delhi is to challenge Beijing as the principal security provider in Asia it has to show that it can do better.


One of the striking outcomes of the Doklam standoff was that it exposed how little India had prepared for an eventuality with China along its long border – the longest unresolved border dispute in the world. Although the standoff ended with something of a tactical victory for India, the fact is that the withdrawal by Indian and Chinese forces was not coordinated, nor did the Chinese promise to end their work on the contested China-Bhutan border.

Recent revelations that Chinese troops are not only present very nearby, but that infrastructure work continues, though in different spots, suggests that the Chinese, at most, merely lowered the temperature, but did not remove the cooking pot.

Indian commentators have posited a number of theories as to why China acted the way it did, but they also rolled out a lot of garbage. For example, a number of senior Indian commentators, supposedly well-informed, spoke of the end of “peaceful rise” of China, or that China would be well-served by adhering to the idea in future. The thing is that China had officially set aside this slogan (it was seen as too threatening for some, others argued that China should not unilaterally dismiss the option of war) in 2005 – a dozen years previously. Such shocking ignorance is of a piece with much commentary about China, which then usually devolves into racist ideas of the "inscrutable Asians".

What makes this ignorance more problematic is that a number of commentators have mapped out in the open domain the various threads that drive new Chinese thinking. The problem lies in the fact that Indians have not incorporated such thinking in their foreign policy calculations. This means that things like the China Pakistan Economic Corridor, the Belt and Road Initiatives as a whole, and the recent Doklam standoff are all discussed separately, as standalone incidents that are not held together in a larger understanding of Chinese strategic aims. Without such an understanding, China remains an unfathomable country which occasionally engages in “enemy action” and occasionally supports India on issues like “International Yoga Day”.

The first thing to understand is China’s nationalism and how it sees its role in Asia. The trope of a “century of humiliation” has been very important for China, and its desire to keep, and surpass the Joneses, is incredibly important. As Yang Jisheng chronicles in Tombstone: The Untold Story of Mao's Great Famine, much of Mao’s desire for “rash advance” before initiating the Great Leap Forward seemed to be about surpassing UK’s steel production (the dictat for household to create their own steel furnaces) and to match the USSR’s launching of the Sputnik satellite with “Sputnik harvests”.

To a certain degree this was directed inwards until 2008, the year that the Beijing Olympics announced to the world that China had come into its own. Soon thereafter, Beijing’s belligerent nationalism ended up expressed overseas.

Possibly the best mapping of this for outsiders was done by David Shambaugh in his 2011 article for the Washington Quarterly, titled “Coping with a Conflicted China”. In this excellent article, which begins by saying that the years 2009-10 marked the rise of a China more difficult to deal with, Shambaugh draws out the ideas behind the “Nativist”, “Realist”, “Major Powers”, “Asia First”, “Global South”, “Selective Multilateralism”, and “Globalist” schools of thought within China, and their power.

In ending the essay, Shambaugh predicted that China’s neighbours and its allies will have to deal with a more conflicted China, but one which is likely to be much more aggressive. These have largely come true.

The rise of Xi Jinping, though, has seen that internal conflict being largely subsumed under one man, and a stress on China’s place in the sun. With the striking diminishment of US power due to the Iraq War and now the rise of Donald Trump, The Economist has now put Xi Jinping on its cover as the world’s most powerful man, and yet Indians still seem to have little clue as to what he wants. One way would be to examine what drives the strategic agenda behind Xi’s most important foreign policy initiative, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

While China has pushed the US back a little in East Asia, strikingly so in the Philippines, where it is said Beijing bought itself a new president when the old one challenged it on the South China Sea, the area where China has most obviously expanded its reach is to its west.

In Central Asia and South Asia, the US has little established power. With Pakistan increasingly isolated due to its own behaviour vis-à-vis India on one hand, and Afghanistan, the US and the rest of the ISAF countries on the other, China’s found an excellent opportunity to establish a relationship with a country desperately feeling threatened (whether rightly or wrongly) about its own sovereignty.

In Nepal, China offered trade routes that allowed the landlocked country to dream about connecting itself to the wider world without going through India.

In all such cases, BRI offers China plentiful opportunity to act (in its own thinking) as the central security provider and economic centre in Asia. Nor is this happening in secret. A number of Chinese commentators have written about the security and strategic impacts of BRI, and a useful analysis of it can be found in Joel Wuthnow’s recent paper in INSS, titled “Chinese Perspectives on the Belt and Road Initiative: Strategic Rationales, Risks, and Implications”. Wuthnow argues that, “Several analyses describe the BRI as a way for China to simultaneously achieve two geopolitical objectives: amassing strategic influence in Eurasia’s heartland while deftly avoiding direct competition with the United States.”


In many ways the Doklam standoff was characterised by the Chinese in a similar manner - as China defending Bhutanese sovereignty. China defined India as the problem, especially as India (and Bhutan) engaged militarily before engaging diplomatically to deal with the standoff. It was also noticeable that whatever happened behind the curtains, no major power questioned Chinese actions with the exception of Japan - a country that China does not really think of as a competitor, merely an obstacle.

In effect, the Chinese found that they could assert that they were the main security provider in the Eurasian area, and no major power would rally against this. India was alone.


As the UK continues to destroy its power through Brexit, and Donald Trump undermines US legitimacy abroad by pulling out of major agreements such as the Paris Accord and the Iran Deal, China will continue to press ahead as the main power in Asia. The one country that may have challenged this role was Russia, which has not. As such, India looks at an Asia to its north as one that will be more and more a Chinese sphere of influence.

Can India do much about this? In a sense, yes. As Wuthnow suggests in his paper, the Chinese party line inhibits the analysts from stating (and maybe understanding) how much of the security problems there really are.

It is worthwhile remembering that while the BRI expands Beijing’s reach to the west of China, it is also an internal expansion. About 94 per cent of the Chinese population lives in the eastern half of China.

The Heihe–Tengchong Line, or Hu Line, separates the Hu majority from half of Chinese lands, where the minorities live - principal among them the Tibetans and the Uighur. As the Sikyong, or political leader, of the Tibetan exile community has said, China’s external relations can be judged on how China deals with the communities it governs within its own periphery. It does not govern its minorities across the Hu Line very well.

If India is to challenge China as the principal security provider in Asia it has to show that it can do better. For that India has to manage its own periphery better, a challenge at the best of times, and with the best of governments.
 
. .
.
We already canceled all high speed train projects with India
Beats me,
which High speed train projects were awarded to Chinese companies?
As of now only one project is in advance stages awarding to Japanese consortium led by Mitsubishi Hitachi for Mumbai Ahmadabad line.
@Nilgiri @ahojunk You guys have any information on this?

Now Indians will live in grinding poverty forever!
So running HST amounts poverty to alleviation!
Damn why didn't we get this formula earlier
@Joe Shearer Sir :angel:
 
.
Chinese will be pushed back again!

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/dokla...ina-ties-one-belt-one-road/story/1/20099.html

Doklam again: India must brace for a more dominant China
If New Delhi is to challenge Beijing as the principal security provider in Asia it has to show that it can do better.


One of the striking outcomes of the Doklam standoff was that it exposed how little India had prepared for an eventuality with China along its long border – the longest unresolved border dispute in the world. Although the standoff ended with something of a tactical victory for India, the fact is that the withdrawal by Indian and Chinese forces was not coordinated, nor did the Chinese promise to end their work on the contested China-Bhutan border.

Recent revelations that Chinese troops are not only present very nearby, but that infrastructure work continues, though in different spots, suggests that the Chinese, at most, merely lowered the temperature, but did not remove the cooking pot.

Indian commentators have posited a number of theories as to why China acted the way it did, but they also rolled out a lot of garbage. For example, a number of senior Indian commentators, supposedly well-informed, spoke of the end of “peaceful rise” of China, or that China would be well-served by adhering to the idea in future. The thing is that China had officially set aside this slogan (it was seen as too threatening for some, others argued that China should not unilaterally dismiss the option of war) in 2005 – a dozen years previously. Such shocking ignorance is of a piece with much commentary about China, which then usually devolves into racist ideas of the "inscrutable Asians".

What makes this ignorance more problematic is that a number of commentators have mapped out in the open domain the various threads that drive new Chinese thinking. The problem lies in the fact that Indians have not incorporated such thinking in their foreign policy calculations. This means that things like the China Pakistan Economic Corridor, the Belt and Road Initiatives as a whole, and the recent Doklam standoff are all discussed separately, as standalone incidents that are not held together in a larger understanding of Chinese strategic aims. Without such an understanding, China remains an unfathomable country which occasionally engages in “enemy action” and occasionally supports India on issues like “International Yoga Day”.

The first thing to understand is China’s nationalism and how it sees its role in Asia. The trope of a “century of humiliation” has been very important for China, and its desire to keep, and surpass the Joneses, is incredibly important. As Yang Jisheng chronicles in Tombstone: The Untold Story of Mao's Great Famine, much of Mao’s desire for “rash advance” before initiating the Great Leap Forward seemed to be about surpassing UK’s steel production (the dictat for household to create their own steel furnaces) and to match the USSR’s launching of the Sputnik satellite with “Sputnik harvests”.

To a certain degree this was directed inwards until 2008, the year that the Beijing Olympics announced to the world that China had come into its own. Soon thereafter, Beijing’s belligerent nationalism ended up expressed overseas.

Possibly the best mapping of this for outsiders was done by David Shambaugh in his 2011 article for the Washington Quarterly, titled “Coping with a Conflicted China”. In this excellent article, which begins by saying that the years 2009-10 marked the rise of a China more difficult to deal with, Shambaugh draws out the ideas behind the “Nativist”, “Realist”, “Major Powers”, “Asia First”, “Global South”, “Selective Multilateralism”, and “Globalist” schools of thought within China, and their power.

In ending the essay, Shambaugh predicted that China’s neighbours and its allies will have to deal with a more conflicted China, but one which is likely to be much more aggressive. These have largely come true.

The rise of Xi Jinping, though, has seen that internal conflict being largely subsumed under one man, and a stress on China’s place in the sun. With the striking diminishment of US power due to the Iraq War and now the rise of Donald Trump, The Economist has now put Xi Jinping on its cover as the world’s most powerful man, and yet Indians still seem to have little clue as to what he wants. One way would be to examine what drives the strategic agenda behind Xi’s most important foreign policy initiative, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

While China has pushed the US back a little in East Asia, strikingly so in the Philippines, where it is said Beijing bought itself a new president when the old one challenged it on the South China Sea, the area where China has most obviously expanded its reach is to its west.

In Central Asia and South Asia, the US has little established power. With Pakistan increasingly isolated due to its own behaviour vis-à-vis India on one hand, and Afghanistan, the US and the rest of the ISAF countries on the other, China’s found an excellent opportunity to establish a relationship with a country desperately feeling threatened (whether rightly or wrongly) about its own sovereignty.

In Nepal, China offered trade routes that allowed the landlocked country to dream about connecting itself to the wider world without going through India.

In all such cases, BRI offers China plentiful opportunity to act (in its own thinking) as the central security provider and economic centre in Asia. Nor is this happening in secret. A number of Chinese commentators have written about the security and strategic impacts of BRI, and a useful analysis of it can be found in Joel Wuthnow’s recent paper in INSS, titled “Chinese Perspectives on the Belt and Road Initiative: Strategic Rationales, Risks, and Implications”. Wuthnow argues that, “Several analyses describe the BRI as a way for China to simultaneously achieve two geopolitical objectives: amassing strategic influence in Eurasia’s heartland while deftly avoiding direct competition with the United States.”


In many ways the Doklam standoff was characterised by the Chinese in a similar manner - as China defending Bhutanese sovereignty. China defined India as the problem, especially as India (and Bhutan) engaged militarily before engaging diplomatically to deal with the standoff. It was also noticeable that whatever happened behind the curtains, no major power questioned Chinese actions with the exception of Japan - a country that China does not really think of as a competitor, merely an obstacle.

In effect, the Chinese found that they could assert that they were the main security provider in the Eurasian area, and no major power would rally against this. India was alone.


As the UK continues to destroy its power through Brexit, and Donald Trump undermines US legitimacy abroad by pulling out of major agreements such as the Paris Accord and the Iran Deal, China will continue to press ahead as the main power in Asia. The one country that may have challenged this role was Russia, which has not. As such, India looks at an Asia to its north as one that will be more and more a Chinese sphere of influence.

Can India do much about this? In a sense, yes. As Wuthnow suggests in his paper, the Chinese party line inhibits the analysts from stating (and maybe understanding) how much of the security problems there really are.

It is worthwhile remembering that while the BRI expands Beijing’s reach to the west of China, it is also an internal expansion. About 94 per cent of the Chinese population lives in the eastern half of China.

The Heihe–Tengchong Line, or Hu Line, separates the Hu majority from half of Chinese lands, where the minorities live - principal among them the Tibetans and the Uighur. As the Sikyong, or political leader, of the Tibetan exile community has said, China’s external relations can be judged on how China deals with the communities it governs within its own periphery. It does not govern its minorities across the Hu Line very well.

If India is to challenge China as the principal security provider in Asia it has to show that it can do better. For that India has to manage its own periphery better, a challenge at the best of times, and with the best of governments.
 
.
We already canceled all high speed train projects with India! Now Indians will live in grinding poverty forever!

https://www.newsient.com/china-backing-indian-hsr-projects-doklam-standoff/7827
^^ what chinese think
now
what actually happens to their companies in india

BVSL: Chinese, S Korean bidders red-flagged

After shortlisting Chinese and South Korean companies for construction of Bandra-Versova Sea Link (BVSL), MSRDC has raised a red flag on these bidders, stating that their eligibility is subject to security clearance from the Union Home Ministry considering that the construction site is crucial from the security point of view.

In July, the Union Home Ministry had denied security clearance to a Chinese consortium for construction of Mumbai Trans Harbour Link (MTHL) between Sewri and Nhava Sheva being executed by Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA).

MSRDC, in a communication dated August 21, 2017, sent to the five shortlisted companies that include Chinese and South Korean consortium, that eligibility of the bidder shall be subject to the outcome of security clearance.

A senior MSRDC official said, "We have submitted the names of the five bidders and have sought security clearance from the Centre a month ago and expect the clearance soon. Also, it was done after Chinese bidders shared with us the problems they faced when they were denied security clearance during construction of Bandra-Worli Sea Link."

A security clearance is required when the construction site is in the vicinity of crucial defence or security installations, and is granted by the Union Home Ministry that consults the Intelligence Bureau and the Ministry of External Affairs before granting it.

In the past, Chinese companies or groups with Chinese connections have been barred from bidding for Indian port projects by the Union Cabinet Committee on security grounds because of the shifting political relationship between the two countries.

The five shortlisted bidders include China Harbour Engineering Co. Ltd-Soma joint venture (JV), Hyundai-ITD Cementation JV, L&T-Daewoo JV, HCC-SKEC JV and Reliance-CGCD JV.

The 9.5-km-long Bandra-Versova sea link will be constructed at a cost of Rs 5,500 crore, and to make the project financially viable, the project's concession period would be for 28 years, which means that the sea link will be tollable for 28 years.

Dna india
 
.
Beats me,
which High speed train projects were awarded to Chinese companies?
As of now only one project is in advance stages awarding to Japanese consortium led by Mitsubishi Hitachi for Mumbai Ahmadabad line.
@Nilgiri @ahojunk You guys have any information on this?


So running HST amounts poverty to alleviation!
Damn why didn't we get this formula earlier
@Joe Shearer Sir :angel:

No contracts were awarded. Just the ardent desires of a Chinese team suddenly cooled and one project (out of eight) remains unawarded. The other seven are going on.

But try explaining this to a fan-boy. Least of all to the leading half-dollar.
 
. .
@Feng Leng : Ask your supervisor to give you a new topping. Opening a new thread everyday on Dokhalam is now going out of fashion.
Or hasyour supervisor asked you do it for the same number of days that Indian troops were in Dokhalam ????
 
.
.
As if only China has the technical know-how of High speed trains. LOL :lol::lol::lol:

Didn't you see last month, we just awarded a similar project to the Japs, and will do so again. This is nothing but same old "Sour Grapes" since China lost Ahmedabad - Mumbai bullet train. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Genius right, pay double for the same thing. :rofl:. How many starving kids this time? The Japs are laughing to the bank.

Chinese will be pushed back again!
Yup, pushed back by cowardice retreating INDIANS? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Last I heard China controls Doklam now with SOLDIERS THERE.
 
.
Genius right, pay double for the same thing. :rofl:. How many starving kids this time? The Japs are laughing to the bank.


Yup, pushed back by cowardice retreating INDIANS? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Last I heard China controls Doklam now with SOLDIERS THERE.

China will be slapped again if they come to the conflict area with their construction items, simple as that!
 
.
We already canceled all high speed train projects with India! Now Indians will live in grinding poverty forever!

https://www.newsient.com/china-backing-indian-hsr-projects-doklam-standoff/7827
:lol: :rofl: Meanwhile in the real world...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...investments-in-india/articleshow/61093929.cms

Led by Chinese, nearly 600 companies line up $85 billion investments in India

NEW DELHI: Sany Heavy Industry heads up a list of close to 600 companies planning to invest a total of about $85 billion in India in projects that will create an estimated 700,000 jobs in the country in next five years.

Invest India, the government's foreign investment promotion agency, is planning to actively promote the country as an investment destination and has drawn up a list of 200 companies not present in India that it wants to target.

"We want to achieve a $100 billion target of foreign investment in the next two years — both greenfield and brownfield," said Invest India managing director Deepak Bagla. India recorded its highest FDI (foreign direct investment) in FY17 at $43 billion, up 9 per cent over the previous year.

One of the world's leading engineering machinery manufacturers, China's Sany Heavy Industry plans an investment of $9.8 billion. Amazon, along with several other Chinese companies —
Construction, China Fortune Land Development and Dalian Wanda — are each planning investments of more than $5 billion during this period.


Of the total indicated investment, $7.43 billion has already materialised and 100,000 jobs have been created, according to Invest India.


Rolls-Royce plans to invest $3.7 billion and Australia's Perdaman Industries $3 billion.
Invest India is handholding the investors through the process, starting with identifying opportunities to scouting for locations and guiding them on policy.

Most of the investment proposals are from China at 42 per cent , followed by the US at 24 per cent and the UK at 11 per cent .

Energy and waste management have received the highest investment interest followed by construction and ecommerce.

The Invest India team recently met Prime Minister Narendra Modi to update him on the status of the big foreign investments coming into India. "In essence we are the voice of investor in the system and solely dedicated to FDI," said Bagla.

"The idea is, as PM Modi said, to transform red tape into a red carpet for investors." Commerce and industry minister Suresh Prabhu has said there is a need for a paradigm shift in the government's approach to increase investments and it will reach out proactively to prospective investors. The agency said it has received more than 100,000 investor queries from 114 countries in the past two years. Invest India says it can help companies meet the most stringent criteria.

A top Fortune 500 company stipulated 136 parameters while scouting for land to set up its facility in India recently.

"We researched for over 70 days, gathered data across the country and came up with options in four state
meeting each of their criteria for them to choose from," Bagla said.
 
Last edited:
.
China will be slapped again if they come to the conflict area with their construction items, simple as that!
Did you slap us the first time? Last I heard you were holding hands doing a Gandhi in front of our soldiers. Next time? Do you dare to even cross over now after you ran back like a coward, begging for a face saving retreat? LOSERS :rofl::rofl::rofl:

2-gif.422459
 
.
Don't cry every one knows how china backed out in doklam and trying to build the road again.

If china tries its adventures against India, china will be pushed back.

Did you slap us the first time? Last I heard you were holding hands doing a Gandhi in front of our soldiers. Next time? Do you dare to even cross over now after you ran back like a coward, begging for a face saving retreat? LOSERS :rofl::rofl::rofl:

2-gif.422459
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom