Do India Really Neeed MMRCA now

[Storm Force]

The MMRCA compeition and IAF need for 126 fighters has been rumbling on for a decade now. Started off with Mirage 2000-5 as favorite way back in year 2000 just after Kargil.

Today i m not sure that any of the MMRCA contenders are any better than IAF back bone fighter the SU30MKI.

None of the mmrca have the tvc engines.
The mki is al set to get ibris aesa and new smart skins too.
Finally the Russians have now flown PAK FA T50 fifth gen fighter.

Even if it takes until 2020 for first indian PAK FA to enter service the are compelling reasons to cancel the mmrca.
Reasons.

1. Save $12 billion on a fighter that at best is comparable to india,s current best SU30MKI.

2. MMRCA will not be decided until 2012 and first deliveries will only start 2014 running for a decade ie until 2024. Its too far away. and clashes with PAK FA induction.

3.Very crucially TEJAS mk1 is nearing IOC and Eads are offering a euro jet engine for mk2 with an Israeli Aesa radar by 2015 for the same plane. Surely IAF should spend all budget on mk1 & 2 TEJAS until 2020. ie 140+ fighters#

4. India has just sanctioned upgradees to 120 MIRAGE2000 & MIG29 to keep them relevant until 2025 ie mirage2000-5 & mig29smt.

5. IAF does not really need Typhoon Rafael or F18SH class fighters for its rivals at present have nothing in this class or indeed the SU30MKI. Is MMRCA just over kill..

For me its simpler and cost effective to go with

270 (230+ 40 more su30mki) = 270 by 2017
40 tejas mk1 by 2015 assuming IOC in 2010 DEC
80 tejas mk2 between 2014-2020
51 mirage 2000-5 upgrades
62 mig29 smt upgrades
70+ Jaguars darin upgrades

570 planes in 30 sqds

+ 48 mig29k Navy in 2 carrier groups

If the Air force is stil worried about faling nos with mig21/27 RETIREMENT THE mirage2000 of UAE/QATAR and the french air force will be avalable for small cost prehaps additionalo 40+ fighters could be added at $20m each. A mere $800m

 

[deckingraj]

The MMRCA compeition and IAF need for 126 fighters has been rumbling on for a decade now. Started off with Mirage 2000-5 as favorite way back in year 2000 just after Kargil.

Today i m not sure that any of the MMRCA contenders are any better than IAF back bone fighter the SU30MKI.

None of the mmrca have the tvc engines.
The mki is al set to get ibris aesa and new smart skins too.
Finally the Russians have now flown PAK FA T50 fifth gen fighter.

Even if it takes until 2020 for first indian PAK FA to enter service the are compelling reasons to cancel the mmrca.

I will get to the reasons but for now have one word...Don't put all the eggs in one Basket...Now lets look at your reasons...

Reasons.

1. Save $12 billion on a fighter that at best is comparable to india,s current best SU30MKI.

2. MMRCA will not be decided until 2012 and first deliveries will only start 2014 running for a decade ie until 2024. Its too far away. and clashes with PAK FA induction.

3.Very crucially TEJAS mk1 is nearing IOC and Eads are offering a euro jet engine for mk2 with an Israeli Aesa radar by 2015 for the same plane. Surely IAF should spend all budget on mk1 & 2 TEJAS until 2020. ie 140+ fighters#

4. India has just sanctioned upgradees to 120 MIRAGE2000 & MIG29 to keep them relevant until 2025 ie mirage2000-5 & mig29smt.

5. IAF does not really need Typhoon Rafael or F18SH class fighters for its rivals at present have nothing in this class or indeed the SU30MKI. Is MMRCA just over kill..

1. Limited options and relying too much on just one fighter is not a good strategy...You always should have mix and match of potent fighters....
2. No not really...Few squadrons would be bought off the shelf and rest would be produced in India under TOT...By the time FGFA would see the light of inducting its first squadron we would be wrapping up the MRCA...
3. Lets not confuse the capabilities of Tejas with MRCA contendors...Tejas is going to be our interceptor and unfortunately the delay in Tejas programme is one of the reasons for the MRCA...Having said it Tejas is a very new platform and our first true fighter plane...It would take a good significant time to make it as potent as compared to contendars in MRCA...As of now Tejas primary duty is to fill the gap created by decommissioning Mig 21 and act as interceptors...
4. Yes but how does it help in achieving the sactioned squadron limits that IAF desperately needs???
5. Not really...What are you talking about mate?? Look at China and their current fleet of Fighter Planes...Ratio is almost 3:1 in favor of China when it comes to numbers...Also we are doing good when it comes to our strike fighters but when it comes to lower side the situation is not very rosy...So you got have state of art planes which can counter the clear quantitative edge of your adversary who also enjoys somewhat qualitative edge in certain sections...

For me its simpler and cost effective to go with

270 (230+ 40 more su30mki) = 270 by 2017
40 tejas mk1 by 2015 assuming IOC in 2010 DEC
80 tejas mk2 between 2014-2020
51 mirage 2000-5 upgrades
62 mig29 smt upgrades
70+ Jaguars darin upgrades

570 planes in 30 sqds

+ 48 mig29k Navy in 2 carrier groups

If the Air force is stil worried about faling nos with mig21/27 RETIREMENT THE mirage2000 of UAE/QATAR and the french air force will be avalable for small cost prehaps additionalo 40+ fighters could be added at $20m each. A mere $800m

Lot of assumptions here(Like UAE and Qatar will for sure sell them to us)..secondly those planes would also need upgrades to bring them to the level of other counterparts in our inventory and it would surely change the price tag...If not wrong our current upgrade of Mirage is costing us around $40 million per plane..

 

[Srinivas]

I feel this mmrca contest is not needed. Instead of buying a fighter jet why don't India buy the technology and integrate it with our home grown technology.
I prefer indigenous fighter jets tailor made for our requirements.Regarding depleting squadron strength why don't we set up more assembly lines and produce them faster.

 

[TheWarriorIndian]

I feel this mmrca contest is not needed. Instead of buying a fighter jet why don't India buy the technology and integrate it with our home grown technology.
I prefer indigenous fighter jets tailor made for our requirements.Regarding depleting squadron strength why don't we set up more assembly lines and produce them faster.

Buddy, You would not get a good TOT without giving them a good amount, Now India is getting technology As well as the machines, whats wrong in it.... See India has Fighter Jet programs, so This technology will be Integrated on our Future platforms like MCA.... So Buddy, We are doing perfectly fine buying them

 

[jagjitnatt]

I feel this mmrca contest is not needed. Instead of buying a fighter jet why don't India buy the technology and integrate it with our home grown technology.
I prefer indigenous fighter jets tailor made for our requirements.Regarding depleting squadron strength why don't we set up more assembly lines and produce them faster.

I feel the contest is still needed. The number of fighter planes will be falling sharply once Mig27, 21 and Jaguar go out of service.

We can't replace each of them with PakFa. We need planes like these. Also we will be getting the tech, so we can incorporate these features in future upcoming planes like MCA.

The planes like Rafale and Typhoon and not only equal to Su30MKI but also better in some aspects like reliability, low observability etc.

Su30MKI uses brute force to deal with enemies, at the same time, Typhoon and Rafale uses its tech. Not only are these planes the best 4.5 gen planes but also incorporate some of the features of 5 gen planes.

As time passes, not only do we need to maintain the number of aircraft but only increase them from time to time. To do so we need at least 50 planes a year for the next 7-8 years, since we will be retiring a total of more than 350 fighter aircraft.

 

[harrymohan]

I am very much interested in setting up infrastructure for making finest Intelligence agency, which can figure out attacks every year in some different city of India before happening, which can engage in cyber war, trace down and eliminate people against India Union just like what Mosad do. I think anyone acting state of Israel must be knowing well in advance if Mosad is able to track them down, they won't be spared! such a fear keeps people away to plot terror activities.

These buying planes is just a kind of showoff like what neighbours do when they buy new cars! to be strong internally we need elite intelligence agency!

 

[illuminatidinesh]

am very much interested in setting up infrastructure for making finest Intelligence agency, which can figure out attacks every year in some different city of India before happening, which can engage in cyber war, trace down and eliminate people against India Union just like what Mosad do. I think anyone acting state of Israel must be knowing well in advance if Mosad is able to track them down, they won't be spared! such a fear keeps people away to plot terror activities.

These buying planes is just a kind of showoff like what neighbours do when they buy new cars! to be strong internally we need elite intelligence agency!

Ok shall we dismantle the IAF?????? Intelligence agencies do what they do the best....... Ok If Israel have Mossad then Wat is the purpose of their Air-force?

 

[CONNAN]

nvm..................

 

[harrymohan]

Ok shall we dismantle the IAF?????? Intelligence agencies do what they do the best....... Ok If Israel have Mossad then Wat is the purpose of their Air-force?

India's main threat is internal, it cannot safeguard lives of its own citizen, it's citizen are alive coz of sympathizes of terrorist! they can strike anytime at their own wishes and airforce won't be able to save citizen. Pakistan or China won't be attacking India any soon where as separatist movements and their activities are real threat and one needs intelligence not MRCA to deal with it! Same time India needs to Develop the areas affected by separatist movement, bring education and employment for locals!

 

[Moscow]

do india need?

reverse question ----- why are foreigners so interested ? india has the money they are buying so pull your hair out my country cant afford so i am not saying why is it needed by indis let india decide what they need ....


all these questions arise just because others cant afford so point out how bad it is to have the mrca and how its a big management failure...

let india buy all the 6 planes that too 100,s of them they arent taking my money so why care let their people decide what to do with their government

grapes are sour but no need to highlight on broadband

 

[Haanzo]

what the hell are we going to do about old mig-27 and jags ????? WHATS GONNA REPLACE THEM PAK-FA ,NO WAY ,USELESS THREAD :-(

 

[sudhir007]

THE mirage2000 of UAE/QATAR and the french air force will be available for small cost perhaps additional 40+ fighters could be added at $20m each. A mere $800m

did you read any latest that Qater or UAE or French offer their mirage to us. and why the way for your knowledge the up gradation cost of 1 mirage-2000 is around $43million. do you think iaf fool Ist they purchase old a/c 10-20 million dollar then added up-gradation cost around 43million dollar. At the same price we get Gripen-IN with Full TOT.

 

[jagjitnatt]

did you read any latest that Qater or UAE or French offer their mirage to us. and why the way for your knowledge the up gradation cost of 1 mirage-2000 is around $43million. do you think iaf fool Ist they purchase old a/c 10-20 million dollar then added up-gradation cost around 43million dollar. At the same price we get Gripen-IN with Full TOT.

Actually the Mirage 2000 with UAE are the latest Mirage 2000-9 standards, it is the same standard we are upgrading our planes to. So is they are willing to sell us these planes, we should grab them along with the MRCA.

 

[Raje amar]

India's main threat is internal, it cannot safeguard lives of its own citizen, it's citizen are alive coz of sympathizes of terrorist! they can strike anytime at their own wishes and airforce won't be able to save citizen. Pakistan or China won't be attacking India any soon where as separatist movements and their activities are real threat and one needs intelligence not MRCA to deal with it! Same time India needs to Develop the areas affected by separatist movement, bring education and employment for locals!

as some wise legend has said "If you want peace prepare for war"

if the borders of a country are well defended then only the people within can expect peace & prosparity.

the condition in india is as it is now because we are not that strong at present. & need to do a lot of things to improve the situation.

 

[Kinetic]

Instead of MRCA we should invest more in MCA and UCAV.