Dissecting the Indian Cold Start Doctrine with Col (R) Abdul Naeem.

[Ray_of_Hope]

DO you know What will happen the NEXT time

LOL.U`ll just back off.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

LOL.U`ll just back off.

Keep living in denial and delusions

or read this

Managing Modi - Shahzad Chaudhry

How might then Pakistan manage him? The first apprehension is will he war with Pakistan. Here is how it will go. He will begin with an immediate assessment of what his armed forces will need to gain an assured level of readiness – armed forces are always short of what they assume is absolute readiness; remember the nine months that Manekshaw needed before the 1971 war, or how the Indian army dithered after Mumbai from a reprisal action.

Modi’s aim will not be to seek a war. But come another situation like Mumbai 2008, he would like his military to respond with effect; of that there should be little confusion. Pakistan will then need to evolve its own plan to first deter and then respond to such a reprisal. That will put them both on a slippery slope of escalation dominance.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Keep living in denial and delusions

or read this

Managing Modi - Shahzad Chaudhry

How might then Pakistan manage him? The first apprehension is will he war with Pakistan. Here is how it will go. He will begin with an immediate assessment of what his armed forces will need to gain an assured level of readiness – armed forces are always short of what they assume is absolute readiness; remember the nine months that Manekshaw needed before the 1971 war, or how the Indian army dithered after Mumbai from a reprisal action.

Modi’s aim will not be to seek a war. But come another situation like Mumbai 2008, he would like his military to respond with effect; of that there should be little confusion. Pakistan will then need to evolve its own plan to first deter and then respond to such a reprisal. That will put them both on a slippery slope of escalation dominance.

Thats an hypothetical proposition.R u trying me to believe what will happen and not what had happened????

 

[HRK]

@AUz

If Pakistan was SO confident of the UTILITY of Nukes
then it would NOT be spending so much on defence ie
conventional stuff
INSPITE of such serious economic problems

Stephen what you are arguing is actually known as Stability Instability Paradox theory which suggests once the two rival nuclear states achieve stability at strategic level i.e. second strike capability instability increase at tactical level which mean that not only the possibility of limited conventional conflict increase but the Tactical or limited Nuclear exchange is also possible under the umbrella of STRATEGIC STABILITY.

Without going into the detail in India-Pakistan context Instability at Tactical level is need to be addressed to achieve comparative stability at that level as well for the Stable South Asian Region.

You people are NOT suicidal ; the Nuclear blackmail and bluff will NOT work

Same is the case of for India, We also believe that India is not a suicidal country because any miscalculated move from one side will force the other side to go for the next step of the escalation ladder.

So in other words blackmailing or bluff regarding limited or surgical strike would also not work in this situation.

DO you know What will happen the NEXT time

Managing Modi - Shahzad Chaudhry

seriously I want to narrate a couplet here

Main Kase Samjoo Yaar Maherba mare
Tu ILAJ nahi hai meri har uddasi ka

 

[Tipu7]

lets suppose if India initiate Cold start then what will be its targets?
I say Kashmir and they will try to destroy ''terrorist camps'' there. and what will be the most suitable time? winters as in mountain areas it will be difficult for un prepared one to respond........and which winters? may be coming october or november..............but suppose if India do that then what will be the result? forget nukes (lets suppose both do not have nukes) even in conventional war India will suffer.............and also Pakistan............moreover China will also play its part and over all ending results for India will be such that
pain>>gain

 

[gslv mk3]

) even in conventional war India will suffer.............and also Pakistan

in conventional war Pakistan will suffer more.

 

[Tipu7]

both will suffer
and who will suffer ''more'' cannot be determined as long as they engage against each other

 

[The Headache]

Colonel is correct in general tone.

indian army is VASTLY lagging in terms of mobility, and flexibility. Most of your tanks ARE outdated..and there is no "mass production" of arjun either. Only 120 or so are inducted. JUST 120 etc.

Pakistan can mobilize its strike forces quicker than india. That's a fact too.

indian superiority of 5:1 or 6:1 is in some sectors. For example, india attacks Rahim Yar Khan belt with massive force..then it'd have the superiority of that level there. But over-all, across the spectrum, indian superiority isn't even 1:3...

Pakistan has 2 Strike Corps deployed against india.

india has 3 strike corps in total.

Even if u deploy all of them against us, you still won't have enough firepower to overwhelm us. Moreover, Pakistani Military is faster, more mobile, and much more flexible---and hence, it can out maneuver any indian attack and make india stand-still on strategic level---hence forcing the situation towards a ceasefire where nobody wins anything.

Read some books on military and military history. Seeing GFP lists and jumping up and down is futile.



There have been 6 major indian exercises focused on the concept of rapid mobilization and quick, fast, flexible attacks.

Pakistan Army isn't idiot to be "trolled' just like that. indian army might be. But not us.

Pakistan Army is an entire institution. They see whats happening in india. They calculate the situation and respond accordingly.

Keep your childish comments out.

Moreover, whether its real or not..who gives a bharti sh!t?

We improved our military capability, made it much more net-centric, introduced C4ISR across spectrum, integrated our airpower with land forces, mechanized our front-line desert forces, and made our military-machine much more war-ready, flexible, and highly mobile compared to before.

If anything, we should thanks bhartis due to which we officially moved into being a modern 21st century battle army that is focused on mobility, extreme firepower, and integration of resources.

Outdated tanks blah,blah,blah.... Sincerely, you haven't read nor heard about the capabilities of our Armed forces. And then you comment illogical things just to satisfy you and your fellow countrymen.

I didn't mention "nukes" in my post, did I---genius?

And indians...as colonel mentioned..are a defensive people. Entire indian army is of defensive mindset.

india got a situation---multiple times---where it could've made the move.

It backed out.

Now, there is no "space for wars" ...You launch a war....we either win by forcing you to sign a stalemate with us (yet again!) OR we obliterate entire hindu existence out of history by escalating the conflict to nuclear level.

What YOU have in your mind is that you'll find a limited war, on your terms, win..and come back.

LMAO.

 

[jay89]

Indians posting here to launch a brahmos or other cruise missile doesnt know shit about limited war. You're not USA nor we are iraq or Afghanistan. The minute you launch a missile whithin seconds Pakistan will respond and the whole subcontinent will be breathing nuclear air waste. As far as on topic India cant fight a limited war because they can never achieve their desired targets which would be neutralizing all the alleged terror camps.

 

[rockstar08]

So the conclusion of the Video is " Indians cant do Sh!t about Pakistan "

 

[k_arura]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=756543574400445

PDF exclusive interview with Col (R) Abdul Naeem on the topic of the Indian Cold Start Doctrine. This is the first of a string of recorded interviews on important topics, powered by PDF.

Shows why Pakistan cannot be trusted and is duplicitous. Pak planners of Kargil war? I thought pak maintained from the beginning that it was the MUJ who initiated it and nothing to do with Pak. I can bet when chips are down Pak Janta won't go far n war since that will be the end of pak. And I am realizing the common Pak person wants to stay alive as much as anyone else. So these are all bravado statements from a colonel.

 

[SpArK]

Is it possible that IA trolled pakistan by just introducing this so called doctrine of CSD... what if IA floats a new hot ice cream doctrine, we will see pakistanis scurrying with azam e dus, gyaara, baara. etc.

There is no literature or anything out there to suggest as to what the so called cold start doctrine is apart from a speech on some function by an army guy.

Since then this term sold like hot cake and now this interview.

Lolwa.

 

[I.R.A]

Is it possible that IA trolled pakistan by just introducing this so called doctrine of CSD... what if IA floats a new hot ice cream doctrine, we will see pakistanis scurrying with azam e dus, gyaara, baara. etc.

"No" (which you assumed 9) by the way means new in Urdu, just for your information if you did not know, otherwise you can keep counting to hundred, who gives a damn.

 

[SQ8]

Came here for the entertaining comments by the usual suspects from both sides, was not disappointed.

On the topic and as a summation, the Colonel is being a little optimistic but at the same time he is stating some rather obvious truths. There is NO scope for prolonged limited warfare between India and Pakistan. Any Indian civilian, officer, politician or government leader holding such ideas is only deluding themselves and others.

The only hope for India to break this impasse is for Pakistan's nuclear deterrent to be neutralized either overtly or covertly whilst building up a robust ABM network to stop any launches that might go through.

Citing paper equipment or numbers is the typical habit of the ignorant arm chairs abundant in this forum and ive come to the conclusion it is best not to respond to it. What is to be noted is the reaction of the states themselves. India's massive rearmament has much LESS to do with china and MUCH more to offset the stated shackles it faces with its actual military capability.

On the other hand, Pakistan's need for TNWs and the like also belies the statement of "good conventional capability".
Long and too oft repeated story short; If it comes to short term blows(skirmishes and border firing).. India knows that Pakistan can hold its own very well.. BUT

when it comes to anything bigger than that.. they know that Pakistan can hurt them real bad but eventually is no match.. and they know we know...and they know that we know and will go nuclear which they dont want and they know that we know and we know that they know and its their knowing of us knowing what we know that is the reason to change all that so that we know that they know what we know and that they will no longer stand for what everybody knows for now.

@sandy_3126 No idea of trolling by IA.. its a long term affair to get doctrines changed.. took the US military 30 years...the Indian military has only had 10 years so far. What I do know is that you guys parade Lahori Fried Fish as Amritsari fish in Indian food joints here and its fake.

There is no literature or anything out there to suggest as to what the so called cold start doctrine is apart from a speech on some function by an army guy.

Since then this term sold like hot cake and now this interview.

Lolwa.

Well, take the "Star Wars" project for instance..The US spent a lot of money trying to make it happen before realising that the scale was just impossible to implement... however, they never stated it otherwise as to the Soviets it was the end of their missile capability for which they were prepared to crumble their economy trying to counter it.

However, in this case.. the colonel has explained it better.. the moniker cold start means nothing.. its just the ongoing process of improving upon the Indian warfighting doctrine.. at some point someone thought to reduce the otherwise ridiculous deployment period of the IA and some smart alec ended up calling it cold start.
It possibly has nothing to do with the rest of the evolution of Joint warfighting techniques that are actually being devolved for employment.. but have now come under the umbrella name of Cold Start.

 

[MilSpec]

@sandy_3126 No idea of trolling by IA.. its a long term affair to get doctrines changed.. took the US military 30 years...the Indian military has only had 10 years so far. What I do know is that you guys parade Lahori Fried Fish as Amritsari fish in Indian food joints here and its fake.

That is pulling the punches below the dhoti. You just ruined lahori fish for me.

Fast deployment for CSD is logistical call. The holding corp with Pivot Corp deployment has not happened till date.
If there is any real CSD,The good general said "There is nothing like Cold Start. But we have a 'proactive strategy' which takes steps in a proactive manner so that we can achieve what our doctrines and strategies," . Opn Vijay Bahva was to validate deployment withing 48 hrs and it was not just IBG but the entire strike corp. Allocation of strike corp deployment is fluid and dynamic and can be closer to the concept of IBG, in sudarshan shakti, the integrated battle theater was tested out, no pivot corp formation.
But I wonder why doesn't IA give the CSD hoopla a little more fodder, it seems to drum up big responses from PA.