Discssion: Why it is better for PAF to enter 5th Gen league now .

[somebozo]

there is no such thing as cheap and cheerful..Pakistan survival is in its economy...make money..spend money...about time Pakistan give up milking its citizens and open up avenues of economic development...we are way behind in practical as compared to our potential..

 

[imadul]

Before you people jump into hype of fifth generation do some real research

The f22,raptor an f35 can only fly once every two or three days. It takes that long to reapply ram coating and other service work after each flight.

In contrast fourth gen fighters fly twice a day

The cost per hour if each flight is twice or three times per hour of a falcon .


They carry half the load of falcons and the extensive networking in the planes keep breaking down
The fifth gen can work for China and usa but will be financial disaster for most

India made the smart move with rafale far more combat proven and massive load and sortie rates

Yes, you are right. No country will replace all of their 4G planes with 5th Gen stealth. Initial air superiority using limited number of 5th Gen fighters to destroy enemy stores, installations, radar sites and airports, then send in conventional 4th gen to do cleanup and CAS ops.

 

[ghazi768]

The S-400 is design to knock targets such as cruise missiles out at 400km away. They are also paired with other S-400s or various other air defenses such as S-300s, buks, pantsirs, ect.

It would take a lot of cruise missiles and decoys to destroy an S-400 system. The best chance a cruise missile has at destroying an air defenses system is if that missile defense system and cruise missile are in a mountainous areas where the cruise missile(s) can avoid being detected by skimming low to the ground and using the terrain as a cover.

What will be radar horizon at 50 feet above ground? 18-10 NM?

 

[BHarwana]

Lets not jump to 5th gen. India is pulled up in Rafael deal. It will not be moving to 5th gen for some time. let's wait a year or so and see what news RADAR tech provides. Radars might throw out the stealth advantage so me should give radar progress a chance, if new radar works on 5th gen there will be no difference between 5th and 4th gen other than touch screen.

 

[ghazi768]

What will be radar horizon at 50 feet above ground? 18-10 NM?

Although that forum member did not reply back, here is a image to give an idea about radar horizon at distance from a tracking radar. The data is not exact but largely correct. It is for a radar 10 meters above ground. Also remember that this do not cater to any terrain related effects such as vegetations etc. or radar clutter effects near horizon because that greatly depends upon the radar.
Long range radar are basically AD tactics which put constraints on choice of tactics of an aggressor.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I think the real focus now needs to be to fill up the huge hole of 200 aircraft that need to be replaced---and that should be filled up with the 4th gen and 4.5 gen aircraft----.

With a base tech established at 4th gen capability---numbers are more important at this time than anything else---.

 

[randomradio]

Pakistan has almost 70 million armed civilians and the Indian capital is just a stone throw away across a friendly flat terrain, we've marched on it dozens of times before across centuries, they attack Kashmir, we'd attack their capital with more armed combatants than the armies of the rest of the world combined. Our nukes are the least of India's worries. Its our primary enemy, we have no feud with anyone else, not even with you lot.

I hope those 70 million people carry enough food and water for the trip or they will get hungry enough to eat your officers. Plus good shoes, very, very good shoes.

J-20 and PAK-FA will far better than RAFALE and those are in developmental stages and b/w as for your information libya had no S-300

We are getting the PAK FA, but you are not getting the J-20.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I hope those 70 million people carry enough food and water for the trip or they will get hungry enough to eat your officers. Plus good shoes, very, very good shoes.

Dont worry even makruh creatures such as urself can be eaten if need arises... a good cleanin,skinning,boiling and roastin till ur germ dies and voila.

Could be you instead of the lamb.

Atleast youd serve a purpose... Even if it being being eaten by noble people.

 

[randomradio]

Dont worry even makruh creatures such as urself can be eaten if need arises... a good cleanin,skinning,boiling and roastin till ur germ dies and voila.

Could be you instead of the lamb.

View attachment 372590

Your officers will be skewered first. You can skewer me after that.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Your officers will be skewered first. You can skewer me after that.

Na nigga .. We don't eat our own.. Ur behind is fair game... Tiny little Indians on skewers.. It's revolting .. But nessecity dictates ..
Would have to spend a lot of extra time to clean u though...

 

[CriticalThought]

We are getting the PAK FA, but you are not getting the J-20.

Just curious. Why aren't you guys getting F-35?

 

[randomradio]

Just curious. Why aren't you guys getting F-35?

IAF:
They don't need it. They rejected going for the F-35 in favour of the FGFA. FGFA is better in most respects, plus comes with ToT, 50% IPR etc. So we can modify and produce the jet on our own like we have with Brahmos. If we purchase the F-35, it will only come with MKI style modifications and limited license production. In fact, the Russians had assumed that we will cancel FGFA and go for the F-35 instead, but Parrikar assured them that the FGFA is on. It's better to focus on the AMCA instead.

Even the new Single Engine tender for 200 jets has been designed specifically to keep the F-35 out. It calls for the induction of a proven 4th gen jet, so LM will participate with the F-16.

IN:
There's a new RFI out for 57 jets. LM is sure to reply with the F-35B. It will compete with Rafale and Super Hornet.

 

[razgriz19]

Before you people jump into hype of fifth generation do some real research

The f22,raptor and f35 can only fly once every two or three days. It takes that long to reapply ram coating and other service work after each flight.

In contrast fourth gen fighters fly twice a day

The cost per hour if each flight is twice or three times per hour of a falcon .


They carry half the load of falcons and the extensive networking in the planes keep breaking down
The fifth gen can work for China and usa but will be financial disaster for most

India made the smart move with rafale far more combat proven and massive load and sortie rates

You need ram coating for combat missions. Most countries are just flying training missions not combat

 

[CriticalThought]

IAF:
They don't need it. They rejected going for the F-35 in favour of the FGFA. FGFA is better in most respects, plus comes with ToT, 50% IPR etc. So we can modify and produce the jet on our own like we have with Brahmos. If we purchase the F-35, it will only come with MKI style modifications and limited license production. In fact, the Russians had assumed that we will cancel FGFA and go for the F-35 instead, but Parrikar assured them that the FGFA is on. It's better to focus on the AMCA instead.

Even the new Single Engine tender for 200 jets has been designed specifically to keep the F-35 out. It calls for the induction of a proven 4th gen jet, so LM will participate with the F-16.

IN:
There's a new RFI out for 57 jets. LM is sure to reply with the F-35B. It will compete with Rafale and Super Hornet.

Hmmm. F-35 is only going to get better over time with network-centric warfare. The original 'vision' calls for laser weapons (OK that's admittedly futuristic). But most importantly it offers co-operability with other nations. In future conflicts, the coalition will be wielding F-35s. You guys have global aspirations but no plans to become a global player?

Anyway, you are the best people to calculate your own interests. The guarantee we have is that China will keep the balance of power. The day PAK-FA arrives in your inventory, we will get the appropriate response. And that doesn't include our partnership with Turkey on the TFX.

 

[The SC]

3 Squadron of any fifth generation platform combined with updated version of JF-17 in high numbers will suffice the defensive needs of PAF for next decade. The more important requirement is to get on board with friendly countries or start own program for the development of indigenous fifth generation fighter, in the meantime.

PAF will get 5th G tech from its participation in the TFX program as well as from China by procuring off the shelf J-31s. the accumulation of this knowledge will be applied to the Pakistani own 5th Generation fighter plane, and since economy is and will be improving dramatically, one should expect most of the latest 5th G stealth, avionics and combat systems incorporated into it..