Despite shortcomings, PN is no pushover!

[JamD]

ZDK-03 are deployed at masroor base and for a reason

I didn't say they aren't used for looking out to sea. I am pointing out the impracticality of launching a 750km missile from the coast when you can barely see 450km out to see and that is when you are endangering your AEW asset by flying it at the coast.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Something tells me, all 8 won't be Type-041.

Do you have some inside!! Some nuclear powered submarines!!

 

[Khafee]

Do you have some inside!! Some nuclear powered submarines!!

All I know is that an SLBM carrier is coming. InShaAllah.

 

[Dazzler]

All I know is that an SLBM carrier is coming. InShaAllah.

2 Qing class customized versions are being discussed and might become a part of the sub deal.

 

[crankthatskunk]

All I know is that an SLBM carrier is coming. InShaAllah.

When are we expecting it to arrive!!

 

[Safriz]

I didn't say they aren't used for looking out to sea. I am pointing out the impracticality of launching a 750km missile from the coast when you can barely see 450km out to see and that is when you are endangering your AEW asset by flying it at the coast.

Apart from fishing boats all merchant ships now transmit their current position and routes in real time .
So it's not as impractical as it was in the 90s.

 

[aziqbal]

honestly speaking I was worried about the Navy

but for 7 days from 28th February every Pakistan navy warship and submarines including the replenishment tankers were out at sea

a remarkable level of operational readiness was displayed and psychological victory was won when they caught the Indian submarine

going forward the navy is getting stronger and it air arm is improving plus 2 x OPV

4 x F22P are good but those 4 x Type 21 need to go very old
the single OHP ok too

4 x Type 054AP will bring much need VLS for area defence
4 x Ada Class very modern fast boats

8 x SSK needs to be speeded up and brought forward by a few years around 2026 and they need second strike with them

JF17 equipped with anti ship missiles is a game changer

 

[amardeep mishra]

The US military developed an anti-ship version of their tomahawk CM (which has a ridiculous range as well know). This version was withdrawn from service in 1994. The anti-ship tomahawk was only recently "re-inducted" as the block-IV, which boasts anti-ship capability in addition to all the other things it can do. The reason for this is simple and something that a lot of these discussions miss.

Yes you have a weapon that can travel 2500 km but can you track your target at those ranges? Will you accidentally hit a merchant ship? Even the US didn't feel it was confident enough in its targeting capability. Only recently has their satellite coverage and image processing ability reached the level where they can find and target naval vessels using weapons with long ranges.

So when we talk about PN's CM arsenal we shouldn't obsess over ranges. Our ranges are already much further than what we can detect. As I understand, the Chinese help us out with satellite imagery but I don't know how sustainable of a model that is. We need satellites that monitor our area of operations. Then we need powerful image processing farms that can search through the satellite data and identify targets for us. All of this needs to happen in near real-time. As you can imagine this is VERY hard, but not impossible.

Here's a research group at IST doing research in something similar:
https://ivisioneeist.wixsite.com/ivision/projects
View attachment 547920

Hi @JamD
I agree with you, computing the targeting solutions is also as important as the missiles. I would like to point out that, using Recurrent Neural Network (RNN) or more advanced DQN, it is indeed possible to identify objects like aircraft, maybe a naval ship however what is still a very difficult problem is to classify the kind and make of the aircraft. But in order to use either RNN or DQN one would need SAR images right! SAR images for the area of action can be obtained by a SAR satellite or a tropospheric airship with a look down SAR. I feel, having the capability to monitor and generate targeting solutions is as important as the missiles.

 

[Khafee]

2 Qing class customized versions are being discussed and might become a part of the sub deal.

I think they will be a little bit more advanced

 

[CrazyZ]

In modern warfare, surface warships are vulnerable to all kinds missiles and standoff munitions. The IN "carrier battle groups" are vulnerable and a drain of resources for the Indian military.

Does Pakistan navy still operate Mirages in the naval strike role? Or will they depend on PAF JF-17's? Improving the PN's land based long range air strike capability is where I see the biggest needs. JF-17 is great for the PAF's needs as a backbone fighter jet for border skirmishes with the IAF but the PN needs a bigger dual engine longer range air craft. A version of project AZM for the PN with enough internal space for anti-ship missiles would be a huge advance. It could even be a stealthy drone that can carry anti-ship missiles. Stealth attack from below the water and the sky....IN surface ships and merchant shipping would be target practice.

 

[CHI RULES]

honestly speaking I was worried about the Navy

but for 7 days from 28th February every Pakistan navy warship and submarines including the replenishment tankers were out at sea

a remarkable level of operational readiness was displayed and psychological victory was won when they caught the Indian submarine

going forward the navy is getting stronger and it air arm is improving plus 2 x OPV

4 x F22P are good but those 4 x Type 21 need to go very old
the single OHP ok too

4 x Type 054AP will bring much need VLS for area defence
4 x Ada Class very modern fast boats

8 x SSK needs to be speeded up and brought forward by a few years around 2026 and they need second strike with them

JF17 equipped with anti ship missiles is a game changer

The only missing link is the capable AD which is so far not present in any naval surface ship. PN should take immediate steps for installation of capable SAMs on F22Ps and OHP.

 

[ziaulislam]

The only missing link is the capable AD which is so far not present in any naval surface ship. PN should take immediate steps for installation of capable SAMs on F22Ps and OHP.

Type 54 coming

In modern warfare, surface warships are vulnerable to all kinds missiles and standoff munitions. The IN "carrier battle groups" are vulnerable and a drain of resources for the Indian military.

Does Pakistan navy still operate Mirages in the naval strike role? Or will they depend on PAF JF-17's? Improving the PN's land based long range air strike capability is where I see the biggest needs. JF-17 is great for the PAF's needs as a backbone fighter jet for border skirmishes with the IAF but the PN needs a bigger dual engine longer range air craft. A version of project AZM for the PN with enough internal space for anti-ship missiles would be a huge advance. It could even be a stealthy drone that can carry anti-ship missiles. Stealth attack from below the water and the sky....IN surface ships and merchant shipping would be target practice.

For stand off strikes to avoid blockade and strike till mumbai jf 17 with 2x2x2+1 fuel tank load seems decent

 

[macnurv]

in all fairness, i dont advocate peace with these gangus , they only understand the language of power and command and will never come to grips with the fact that their go -mata was eternally butchered in 47' and that a new country is their eternal neighbor..

Yes, have to agree with that conclusion. Fear of an overwhelming retaliation is the only thing that will keep them in check.

Their was no bharat mata pre-47. It's a figment in their mahabarata imagination. The British handed them a mini continent on a platter, none of their own achievement

History is not the strongest suite of RSS and its allies. They like to indulge in ridiculous form of historic revisionism which is beyond fantasy and should be classified as a mental disorder.

Pakistan nave needs to be revamped from defencive weak force to aggressive strong force Aircraft carrier is need but imprtantly we need bigger power horse destroyers with surface to air capability to block indian jets from IN carriers and best sub hunting aircraft like swordfish from SAAB and better surface to surface guided misile destroyers as well and bring marines a better gear and seprate ships to operate

Totally agreed. Pakistan needs to develop its Navy on urgent basis if we wish to protect our trade routes and assets across the Arabian sea. Although, its highly unlikely we will ever have a blue water navy but as long as we have a potent force with ample assets to keep India and its plans in check, it should be sufficient. Currently our economic situation might not allows us, but we must work towards it.
We must also develop second strike capabilities, it will help prevent any misadventure by the enemies tremendously.

To Be Fair PN Has Been Given A Step Motherly Treatment In The Past.In The Defence Budget It Is Always Given The The Least Allocations.But Still It Manages To Put Up More Than A Decent Fight

That pretty much sums our attitude towards Navy.

Most probably the Indians now have learnt that "war" is little more than "driving/flying/sailing from point A to point B"!!!! And, it covers little more than the first few pages of the "user manual"......

True, but what to do with a man who starts to believe in his own lies and superiority. Indians planners need to stop watching Bollywood shit ASAP and come back down to it before they are brought down by us.

 

[CHI RULES]

Type 54 coming


For stand off strikes to avoid blockade and strike till mumbai jf 17 with 2x2x2+1 fuel tank load seems decent

In modern warfare every vessel shall have to defend itself from Missiles, meanwhile CAPABLE Medium to long range SAMs are must along with CIWS to counter IN missiles. Further perhaps even Type 54 shall be able to defend more or less to itself rather than defending all assets. The current FM 90 of F22 is much better to be installed on upcoming OPVs meanwhile F22Ps require a capable SAM in medium range meanwhile or soul OHP has no SAM installed on it.

 

[CrazyZ]

Type 54 coming


For stand off strikes to avoid blockade and strike till mumbai jf 17 with 2x2x2+1 fuel tank load seems decent

Nice pic. In the future, PN and PAF should consider, at least on paper, a stealth naval strike platform, manned or unmanned. Even usa navy is worried about potential stealth strike aircraft. I am confident our economy will improve. This would be a future project.