Dangerous delusions — Ertugrul mania

[Naofumi]

No, it's not a confirmation bias.

So, I searched like about 10 of their recent articles - only this one had Modi or India as a keyword in the article.....

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

So, I searched like about 10 of their recent articles - only this one had Modi or India as a keyword in the article.....

Bro cool down. No need to be a Sherlock. Wait, I'll look into some of them.

Here:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1560207/smokers-corner-shaheen-and-ertugrul-revisionist-histories

https://www.dawn.com/news/1511713/god-bless-liberal-fascists

https://www.dawn.com/news/1559111/lets-move-on

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552203/smokers-corner-the-disruption-of-populism

https://www.dawn.com/news/1523503/hooligans-in-high-professions

Now some of these just have mentions of India. As mentioned previously, I'm not saying that the criticissm of India is always the case, but it occurs.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

So you don't know but hawai fire karna zaroori hai.

You might be blind to the atrocities committed by your hindutva terrorists against Muslims, but the Muslims are not and the blade will soon turn and you will answer for every crime you have committed, we will not go quietly into the night, we will either win or take you with us, there is no in between.

 

[padamchen]

You might be blind to the atrocities committed by your hindutva terrorists against Muslims, but the Muslims are not and the blade will soon turn and you will answer for every crime you have committed, we will not go quietly into the night, we will either win or take you with us, there is no in between.

There is no we.

Our Muslims are ours.

Im too bored to be arguing Indian internals with Pakistanis anymore so I will disengage now.

Cheers.

 

[PakAlp]

This is cheap propaganda at it's best, if it's all fantasy then why all the noise and sleepless nights. Some people are having nightmares because they cant digest our Muslim ancestors as being brave and role models instead of Hollywood and Bollywood movies stars. The extremist cant digest it because their ISIS ideology is getting slaughtered, their version of Islam is sounding fake.

Islam is a religion of justice, mercy, peace, brotherhood. Islam gives women rights, respect for parents, love for children, Islam promotes education, progress.

The Ottoman Empire lasted for 600 years, before them it was the Seljukes, their Islamic traditions lived on for centuries upon centuries. If it was written on paper after 150years then so what? Just because it was not written it doesn't mean it's not true. Word of mouth is also a proof, the living history is also a proof ie mosques, art, culture, values.

Our Islamic history and Hadiths were written after so many centuries. The great Imams met thousands of people and investigated what they heard from Tabi and Sahaba RadiAllah anhu. You would be surprised how many people try their best to reject hadiths and words of the great Imams. These people think after 1400 years they are God chosen people who will teach the ummah the true Islam, but reality is they are the fitna. Move on please

 

[Trango Towers]

It's not that we would ever invite geniuses like you.

Ahhhh that's good.

 

[peagle]

Pervez Hoodbhoy Updated June 06, 2020

The writer teaches physics in Lahore and Islamabad.


A TURKISH drama series brimming with tribal intrigues, blood, murder, and conquest — all wrapped in pious religious idiom — has taken Pakistan by storm. Filmed in Anatolia, Dirilis: Ertugrul is a 150-episode fictional account of Ertugrul Ghazi, father of the Ottoman Empire’s founder. As of yesterday (Friday), the YouTube count for the 30th Urdu-dubbed episode had already clocked up 5.5 million views on Pakistan Television.

Even those who made Dirilis are astonished — and hugely pleased — at its tumultuous welcome. Tribal Turkmen fighting for a homeland can’t be expected to capture the imagination of millions in some far-off country. But Pakistan is different. Transfixed, entire families are spending evenings watching it together. They think it is wholesome entertainment and genuine Islamic history.

What history? This is a free-wheeling caricature of 13th-century Anatolia of which we know next to nothing. Facts are not important, says Mehmet Bozdag, the man who wrote and produced the series. To quote: “There is very little information about the period we are presenting — not exceeding 4-5 pages. Even the names are different in every source. The first works written about the establishment of the Ottoman State were about 100-150 years later. There is no certainty in this historical data… we are shaping a story by dreaming.”

That this serial is frankly propagandistic and ideologically motivated is beyond doubt. It has been manufactured for a purpose. But what purpose?

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD
Faked history fuels revivalist dreams, creates false hopes, & suggests the way forward is through the sword.

If it seeks to project Islam as a religion of peace and to counter Islamophobia, then the very opposite is achieved. The first scene of the first episode begins with sword-making and sword-sharpening in the background of nomadic tents. The tribe’s adversaries are Christians and Byzantines whose bloodied bodies lie scattered here and there after every fight. The hero, Ertugrul Ghazi, not only beheads several Knight Templars but also former associates from his tribe, such as Kurdoglu Bey, who he suspects of disloyalty.

Should we be surprised if IS-like organisations find this inspirational? Is glorifying the sword glorifying Islam? Islam can surely be represented in ways more positive than putting a spotlight on power struggles within a tribal society. Far better, for example, would be to build upon Turkish scholars like Ali Qushgi, Taqi-al-Din, or Al-Jazari. Without Islam’s early scholars the colorful tapestry of Muslim culture — and Turkish culture as well — would have been far poorer, its claim to being a great world civilisation weak and unconvincing.

I suspect Dirilis’s real goal is less about Islam and more to vent Turkish nostalgia for a long-lost empire. Production demanded massive funding by the Turkish state. A horse farm was created, together with a special zoo-like area for the sheep, goats, nightingales and partridges that appear on the show. A Hollywood stunt team was hired to train actors for the movie’s staged fights. Erdogan and his family have repeatedly visited the filming site.

Understandably, from within the bastions of Sunni Islam the reaction to this blockbuster has been fiercely negative. Both the UAE and Saudi Arabia have condemned and banned the series, and Egyptian authorities have issued a fatwa decrying this “insidious attempt to re-impose Turkish tutelage” over Arab countries formerly under Ottoman rule. Currently, Saudi Arabia is reportedly funding a $40m counter series called Malik-e-Nar of which trailers have already been produced. Though inadequate it does make the point: Arabs cannot celebrate Turkish imperialism.

Most peoples don’t like invaders, but Pakistan’s psyche is somehow special. Perhaps overwhelmed by Erdogan’s aggressive style, Prime Minister Khan proudly tweeted that Turks had ruled India for 600 years. Historians will raise their eyebrows — this is between quarter-true to half-true only. But it must be rare for a prime minister to hail imperial rule over his land.

Khan is not alone. Pakistan celebrates all post-eighth century invasions beginning with Mohammed bin Qasim’s conquest of Sindh in 712 AD. Urdu novelist Nasim Hijazi’s books, devoured by millions, are an ode to the Arab conquest of India. Like filmmaker Mehmet Bozdag, Hijazi’s strength lay in creating imagery unconstrained by facts.

How should one look at ancient invasions and imperial conquests? To laud or vilify them is equally irrational. India is a stunningly clear example of just how much a society can degenerate if it does that. Hindu revivalism is fixated upon the wicked foreign invader who shattered the seraphic heaven of Mother India. Suddenly all Muslims and Christians became unwelcome. As Narendra Modi’s right-hand man recently declared, foreigners are termites infesting a poor man’s grain store.

But do Hindutva’s mindless ideologues not know that all human civilisation began in Africa and there is no such thing as son of Indian soil? That every single human society on earth today is the result of countless conflicts, wars, and foreign invasions over tens of thousands of years? That even precision DNA tests cannot tell the difference between Hindus and Muslims? These basic lessons are for all, not just Pakistan’s rulers.

A mature attitude towards ancient foreign invasions would be to simply accept them clinically as facts of history. They should be investigated and absorbed without either glorification or condemnation. Doing otherwise is utterly pointless. No one living today can be held responsible for the actions, good or bad, of his or her ancestors. Moreover the mists of time have forever hidden true facts from view.

The creators of Dirilis: Ertugrul want us to wallow in the past glories of others and celebrate imperialism. Hook, line and sinker, we are mindlessly swallowing their proffered bait. This poisonous substance can only reinforce the dangerous delusion that going forward actually means going backward.

Instead, the way forward is to ask that Pakistaniat spring from Pakistan’s native soil. It must be rooted in the diversity of all our peoples and historically formed cultures. The year 1971 showed decisively the limits of pan-Islamism. Aping Saudi culture failed to create a viable Pakistani identity; aping Turkey won’t get us much further. Instead a strong national identity can emerge only if Pakistan embraces pluralism, accepts that Punjab is just another Pakistani province, and helps all citizens achieve a sense of belonging based upon a commitment to equality and justice.

The writer teaches physics in Lahore and Islamabad.

Published in Dawn, June 6th, 2020

This guy is an idiot, who has a lot to say but never says anything logical, except self-induced fantasies that only make sense to him and the likes of him, especially across the border.

Every nation has identities that rely on factual plus romanticized history, let's not get overdramatic and drown yourselves in a pool of righteousness.

Columbus never set foot in America and yet has been celebrated as a glorious father of the USA, he was a mass murderer of Native Americans.

European nations have national patron saints that lived far away in different countries. Patron saints were central to a countries identity and still are, both by the secular and religious classes.

And, the greatest of them all, the people across the border, who fantasize about ancient plastic surgery, discovering human flight thousands of years ago and the magical elixir that is cow piss and cow shit. Reminding me of which, this is precisely what this article is, cow shit.

 

[Max]

controversy sell, Kudos to liberals whose chaddis are in twist now a days bcoz of one harmless series.

 

[darksider]

Just a TV serial. Everybody has their panties in a twist. Did Pakistan become westeros after watching game of thrones?

If they used some other religion then wouldn't have any problem.only problem is islam.
They have no problem of sex scenes and brutality of got. People like rouf klasra proudly mentioned got in his program on 92 many times in front of his female colleague.i dont know maybe she also watched it.but no body cried for it.they even tried to legitimise brother sister sex.
But when they see mention of islam they become angry like a bull see red cloth in bull fight arena.we have to teach our people children or adults how to use a weapon.a war with india is must and people should be ready for it.this is cruel world and when we have enemy like india.we have to become cruel against our enemy.they will not have mercy on us if they get the chance to to finish.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Really Mr Hoodbhoy? Really?? Are Pakistanis so so dumb that Dirilis Ertugrul is now some kind of blueprint for faith, life and politics...or shall we dare to suppose that it is entertainment loosely courting historical facts, or stories based upon history - as is clearly stated at the start of every single one of those godforsaken hundreds of episodes.

What a clown hoodbhoy has become, that he lowers himself to drawing conclusions on the state of mind of Pakistanis from a single viral swordfest of a drama.

The programme is actually rather dumbed down - some of the fights are closer to the 1960s Batman kerrrsplatttt type fights than anything close to medieval swordplay.

Anyone educated remotely will take it for what it is - a nice non-islamophobic drama portraying a medieval period of history in the Islamic world. Anyone less educated may have fetishes over it. This dichotomy plays out with Hindus and Christians over their dramas also.

The article by hoodbhoy is literally click bait because he knows a billion sanghees will reference it as "academic research" into the "radicalising" effects of Dirilis Ertugrul.

Here's another article that hits closer to home:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.time...dians-pakistanis/amp_articleshow/76222307.cms

"One big factor behind it is a positive portrayal of Muslims when the trend has been, especially after 9/11, to show Muslims in stereotypical roles, mostly negative, in Hollywood and Bollywood productions. “The series has been helpful in debunking the barbaric image of Muslim rulers that recent xenophobic Bollywood movies have created,” said Dr Sana Aziz who teaches history at Aligarh Muslim University (AMU)."

The usual circle jerking sanghees polluting this thread are simply exposing their insecurities that someone has dared to portray medieval Muslims as something not quite up to the standards of Panipat's Afghan barbarians.

I wonder if Hoodbhoy is assisting their activities for free or if he at least gets to be part of the circle.

controversy sell, Kudos to liberals whose chaddis are in twist now a days bcoz of one harmless series.

It's not quite "liberals" who are bothered by Ertugrul though. It's "anyone who wishes to paint Muslims as simple savage barbarians" who is bothered by this portrayal.

 

[Dalit]

controversy sell, Kudos to liberals whose chaddis are in twist now a days bcoz of one harmless series.

A TV serial has these libtards wetting their pants. They are afraid of actors and history. Low-life scum.

 

[Naofumi]

Bro cool down. No need to be a Sherlock. Wait, I'll look into some of them.

Here:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1560207/smokers-corner-shaheen-and-ertugrul-revisionist-histories

https://www.dawn.com/news/1511713/god-bless-liberal-fascists

https://www.dawn.com/news/1559111/lets-move-on

https://www.dawn.com/news/1552203/smokers-corner-the-disruption-of-populism

https://www.dawn.com/news/1523503/hooligans-in-high-professions

Now some of these just have mentions of India. As mentioned previously, I'm not saying that the criticissm of India is always the case, but it occurs.

That's very selective ranging articles as old as December and even you admit "some of these just have mentions of India", lol.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

There is no we.

Our Muslims are ours.

Im too bored to be arguing Indian internals with Pakistanis anymore so I will disengage now.

Cheers.

Yup ours to Lynch and rape whenever with pleasure.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

That's very selective and even you admit "some of these just have mentions of India", lol.

I've observed that Pakistanis know a lot more about India than India knows about Pakistan. For example, I didn't know that Pakistani is majority Punjabi until 1/2 years ago. Or that there is problem with Pashtuns, Balochs. Sindhis have their own view. And the struggle of the Muhajirs.

Even now, I hardly know about any political party of Pakistan. I just know PTI because Imran Khan got elected. Also, Nawaz Sharif is part of PPP. That's it. Don't know about their ideology, former leaders, etc. But Pakistanis on the forum know a lot more about Indian politics, states, ideologies, etc.

I know this is quite off topic from the point you mentioned but had to say it as it somehow ties it back to frequent mentions of India on the most diverse articles.

 

[Naofumi]

I've observed that Pakistanis know a lot more about India than India knows about Pakistan. For example, I didn't know that Pakistani is majority Punjabi until 1/2 years ago. Or that there is problem with Pashtuns, Balochs. Sindhis have their own view. And the struggle of the Muhajirs.

Even now, I hardly know about any political party of Pakistan. I just know PTI because Imran Khan got elected. Also, Nawaz Sharif is part of PPP. That's it. Don't know about their ideology, former leaders, etc. But Pakistanis on the forum know a lot more about Indian politics, states, ideologies, etc.

The Indian influence on Pakistan have always been more than Pakistani influence on India, the biggest example being Bollywood but in recent years with Republic TV, Gaurav Arya blah blah, surely the fixation on Pakistan have increased manifolds.