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Currently 3 super powers based on 10 criteria: China, Russia, America

Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
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Country
Canada
Location
Canada
1. operates aircraft carriers
2. operates strategic bombers
3. area exceeding 9 million square kilometers
4. distance between two major cities on the mainland exceeding 4,000 kilometers
5. manufactures commercial jetliners
6. manufactures vaccines
7. has manned space programs
8. operates global positioning system
9. operates nuclear powered submarines
10. manufactures jet engines


@dbc @Suika @F-22Raptor @SpaceMan18 @mike2000 is back @Mk-313 @TheImmortal @aziqbal @That Guy @vostok @Hamartia Antidote @striver44
 
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2 and 4 does not matter much,

Hard Power Economic (gdp) size and Military capability (size and industrial capacity) which translates into soft power that is diplomatic and cultural matters much more to be a Powerful country.
 
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2 and 5 does not matter much,

Hard Power Economic (gdp) size and Military capability (size and industrial capacity) which translates into soft power that is diplomatic and cultural matters much more to be a Powerful country.

5 is important. If you want other countries to look up to you, you got to have size. Bullies in schools are big guys, not little guys.
 
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Huawei failed

who is next?

Huawei Has Failed To Resolve Security Flaws, U.K. Government Report Says

Siladitya Ray
Forbes Staff
Business
Covering breaking news and tech policy stories at Forbes.
Updated Oct 1, 2020, 12:33pm EDT
TOPLINE
Huawei has failed to adequately resolve security flaws in the equipment used by the U.K. telecom networks, the British government’s cyber-spy agency said in an official report released a few months after the Chinese telecom equipment-maker was barred from the country’s 5G mobile networks over security concerns.
Huawei

U.K. telcos have been banned from using Huawei's equipment on their 5G networks.
BARCROFT MEDIA VIA GETTY IMAGES

KEY FACTS
The report, prepared by a U.K. government board led by a member of the cyber-intelligence agency Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) found that there had been no evidence that the Chinese firm has made a significant shift on the matter, the BBC reported.
The report added that while some improvements were made by Huawei, the board could only provide "limited assurance that all risks to UK national security" could be mitigated in the long-term.
The U.K. government had initiated a review of Huawei’s network equipment after the U.S. government issued sanctions against the company in May restricting it from sourcing key components from American suppliers.
Following the sanctions, Britain’s National Cyber Security Centre had determined that Huawei’s equipment could no longer be considered safe as it had to rely on non-US components.
The Trump administration has cracked down on Chinese tech firms over security concerns within the U.S. while also engaging in diplomatic efforts to pressure European governments to bar Huawei devices from being used in their 5G networks.
BIG NUMBER
£2 billion. That is how much the ban on Huawei would cost the U.K government, as the move would result in a delay of up to three years in the country’s planned 5G rollout, Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden had told the British parliament.
TANGENT
Germany is set to impose new restrictions on telecom equipment providers which would effectively prevent Huawei’s devices from being used in the country’s 5G phone networks, the Financial Timesreported on Wednesday. An IT security bill that Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cabinet plans to pass will introduce a two-stage approval process for equipment makers, including a technical check of individual components along with a political assessment of the manufacturer’s “trustworthiness”. While the bill doesn’t explicitly ban Huawei, the report stated that the added bureaucratic approval process would make it nearly impossible for the Chinese firm to participate in building Germany’s 5G network.
KEY BACKGROUND
In July, the U.K. government announced that it was banning Huawei from its upcoming 5G networks. Under the new law, telecom operators in the country will be forced to stop buying hardware from the Chinese firm by the end of the year and will have until 2027 to strip out existing Huawei devices from their infrastructure. This move was a reversal from a January decision, which allowed limited use of Huawei equipment and angered U.S. President Donald Trump. In June, the Federal Communications Commission had officially designatedHuawei as a threat to U.S. communications networks, claiming the company has close ties to the Chinese government and its military services. The agency has barred U.S. telecom companies from using the FCC’s $8.3 billion subsidy fund to purchase any equipment made by the Chinese firm.
FURTHER READING
U.K. Government Bans Huawei Devices From 5G Networks, Existing Equipment To Be Phased Out By 2027 (Forbes)
 
.
Huawei failed

who is next?

Huawei Has Failed To Resolve Security Flaws, U.K. Government Report Says

Siladitya Ray
Forbes Staff
Business
Covering breaking news and tech policy stories at Forbes.
Updated Oct 1, 2020, 12:33pm EDT
TOPLINE
Huawei has failed to adequately resolve security flaws in the equipment used by the U.K. telecom networks, the British government’s cyber-spy agency said in an official report released a few months after the Chinese telecom equipment-maker was barred from the country’s 5G mobile networks over security concerns.
Huawei

U.K. telcos have been banned from using Huawei's equipment on their 5G networks.
BARCROFT MEDIA VIA GETTY IMAGES

KEY FACTS
The report, prepared by a U.K. government board led by a member of the cyber-intelligence agency Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) found that there had been no evidence that the Chinese firm has made a significant shift on the matter, the BBC reported.
The report added that while some improvements were made by Huawei, the board could only provide "limited assurance that all risks to UK national security" could be mitigated in the long-term.
The U.K. government had initiated a review of Huawei’s network equipment after the U.S. government issued sanctions against the company in May restricting it from sourcing key components from American suppliers.
Following the sanctions, Britain’s National Cyber Security Centre had determined that Huawei’s equipment could no longer be considered safe as it had to rely on non-US components.
The Trump administration has cracked down on Chinese tech firms over security concerns within the U.S. while also engaging in diplomatic efforts to pressure European governments to bar Huawei devices from being used in their 5G networks.
BIG NUMBER
£2 billion. That is how much the ban on Huawei would cost the U.K government, as the move would result in a delay of up to three years in the country’s planned 5G rollout, Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden had told the British parliament.
TANGENT
Germany is set to impose new restrictions on telecom equipment providers which would effectively prevent Huawei’s devices from being used in the country’s 5G phone networks, the Financial Timesreported on Wednesday. An IT security bill that Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cabinet plans to pass will introduce a two-stage approval process for equipment makers, including a technical check of individual components along with a political assessment of the manufacturer’s “trustworthiness”. While the bill doesn’t explicitly ban Huawei, the report stated that the added bureaucratic approval process would make it nearly impossible for the Chinese firm to participate in building Germany’s 5G network.
KEY BACKGROUND
In July, the U.K. government announced that it was banning Huawei from its upcoming 5G networks. Under the new law, telecom operators in the country will be forced to stop buying hardware from the Chinese firm by the end of the year and will have until 2027 to strip out existing Huawei devices from their infrastructure. This move was a reversal from a January decision, which allowed limited use of Huawei equipment and angered U.S. President Donald Trump. In June, the Federal Communications Commission had officially designatedHuawei as a threat to U.S. communications networks, claiming the company has close ties to the Chinese government and its military services. The agency has barred U.S. telecom companies from using the FCC’s $8.3 billion subsidy fund to purchase any equipment made by the Chinese firm.
FURTHER READING
U.K. Government Bans Huawei Devices From 5G Networks, Existing Equipment To Be Phased Out By 2027 (Forbes)

You know what? If they don't want it, don't buy it. It's their money. Sheesh.
 
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Three? Lol

US is super power.

China is second but there is still some distance.

Rest of the world is not in the conversation. Other countries can be great powers but the title super power is not in the discussion here

Only other super powers are energy super powers like Saudi Arabia or may be Qatar. But that's besides the point
 
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Three? Lol

US is super power.

China is second but there is still some distance.

Rest of the world is not in the conversation. Other countries can be great powers but the title super power is not in the discussion here

Only other super powers are energy super powers like Saudi Arabia or may be Qatar. But that's besides the point

China and Russia are both super powers. In fact, they are situated in Eurasia which is primary. America is situated in New World which is secondary.
 
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China and Russia are both super powers. In fact, they are situated in Eurasia which is primary. America is situated in New World which is secondary.
You live in your parallel universe where China is everything
 
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Huawei 'failed to improve UK security standards'
_112909218_gordoncorera.jpg
Gordon Corera
Security correspondent, BBC News
@gordoncoreraon Twitter

Published1 October 2020
Share
Huawei
IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERS
Huawei has failed to adequately tackle security flaws in equipment used in the UK's telecoms networks despite previous complaints, an official report says.
It also flagged that a vulnerability "of national significance" had occurred in 2019 but been fixed before it could be exploited.
The assessment was given by an oversight board, chaired by a member of the cyber-spy agency GCHQ.
It could influence other nations weighing up use of Huawei's kit.
The report said that GCHQ's National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) had seen no evidence that Huawei had made a significant shift in its approach to the matter.
And it added that while some improvements had been made, it had no confidence they were sustainable.
As a result, it concluded, the board could only provide "limited assurance that all risks to UK national security" could be mitigated in the long-term.
In July, the government announced that due to US sanctions Huawei would eventually be excluded from the new 5G telecoms network by 2027, but the Chinese company can continue to play a role in older mobile phone networks and fixed broadband.
The US has argued that using Huawei's equipment creates a risk of the Chinese state carrying out espionage or sabotage, something the company has always denied.
Despite the criticisms, British security officials say they can manage the current risks posed by using Huawei's existing kit, and they do not believe the defects they have found are a result of Chinese state interference.
Huawei has responded saying the report highlights its commitment to openness and transparency.
"The report acknowledges that while our software transformation process is in its infancy, we have made some progress in improving our software engineering capabilities," a spokesman said.
Although the company now has limited prospects in the UK, it is still hoping to sell its 5G kits to other parts of Europe.
Earlier this week, the chief of its Italian business suggested that other countries could carry out detailed inspections of their own to help overcome security concerns.
"We will open our insides, we are available to be vivisected to respond to all of this political pressure," said Luigi De Vecchis.
However, the Financial Times has reported that Germany is set to be next to ban local networks from using the firm's 5G products.
One expert said setting up an operation like HSEC required a state to provide considerable resources, and offered no guarantee of success.
"Even if Huawei passes the technical evaluation, which we see from today's report is not certain, they may yet be blocked at the political level," said Emily Taylor, editor of the Journal of Cyber Policy.
Delayed findings
Huawei equipment has been used in the UK for a decade and a half.
Since 2010, a special Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), based in Banbury, has been tasked with checking its telecoms infrastructure products.
An oversight board then examines the work of HCSEC and reports to the UK's National Security Advisor annually, although the latest report covering 2019 was delayed because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Last year, the report raised serious concerns about standard of Huawei's equipment and software, and there is no major change in the latest assessment.
In 2018, Huawei committed to a $2bn (£1.5bn) five-year plan to improve its software engineering processes in response to previous criticism.
But the new report complains that Huawei has yet to convince that it can complete the effort on time, and adds that "unless a detailed and satisfactory plan has been provided, it is not possible to offer any degree of confidence that the identified problems can be addressed by Huawei".
In particular it highlighted "poor coding practices" and said there was a "range of evidence" employees were not following Huawei's own guidelines.
Huawei argues it is still in the early stages of the plan and real improvements will only be reflected in future reports.
Broadband flaw
The report adds the amount of vulnerabilities reported in 2019 were "significantly beyond" the number found in 2018, but says this is partly due to the increasing effectiveness of the checks rather than an overall decline in standards.
But it highlights one vulnerability of "national significance" in 2019, which required extraordinary measures to fix.
The BBC has learned this was related to broadband - but officials do not believe anyone exploited the flaw.
The report covers 2019, and so does not address the period when the US imposed new sanctions affecting Huawei.
Those sanctions technically affect HCSEC itself, since it is part of Huawei, and will require changes in its organisational structure.
Huawei mast
IMAGE COPYRIGHTHUAWEI
image captionHuawei still hopes to supply 5G equipment to other European nations
Huawei is also currently building an alternative supply chain for crucial technology affected by the sanctions.
The report comes a day after NCSC's ex-chief explained why the UK had to be alert to the risks of using Huawei's kit in unusually plain language.
"We have to plan on the basis that at some point, Huawei could be made subservient operationally to the Chinese state," Ciaran Martin told a committee of MPs.
"You always have to have in mind a scenario where every bit of involvement of Huawei was turned against the UK.
"And you don't make that assumption for Nokia, you don't make that assumption for Ericsson."
Additional reporting by Leo Kelion
Related Topics
 
.
Huawei 'failed to improve UK security standards'
_112909218_gordoncorera.jpg
Gordon Corera
Security correspondent, BBC News
@gordoncoreraon Twitter

Published1 October 2020
Share
Huawei
IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERS
Huawei has failed to adequately tackle security flaws in equipment used in the UK's telecoms networks despite previous complaints, an official report says.
It also flagged that a vulnerability "of national significance" had occurred in 2019 but been fixed before it could be exploited.
The assessment was given by an oversight board, chaired by a member of the cyber-spy agency GCHQ.
It could influence other nations weighing up use of Huawei's kit.
The report said that GCHQ's National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) had seen no evidence that Huawei had made a significant shift in its approach to the matter.
And it added that while some improvements had been made, it had no confidence they were sustainable.
As a result, it concluded, the board could only provide "limited assurance that all risks to UK national security" could be mitigated in the long-term.
In July, the government announced that due to US sanctions Huawei would eventually be excluded from the new 5G telecoms network by 2027, but the Chinese company can continue to play a role in older mobile phone networks and fixed broadband.
The US has argued that using Huawei's equipment creates a risk of the Chinese state carrying out espionage or sabotage, something the company has always denied.
Despite the criticisms, British security officials say they can manage the current risks posed by using Huawei's existing kit, and they do not believe the defects they have found are a result of Chinese state interference.
Huawei has responded saying the report highlights its commitment to openness and transparency.
"The report acknowledges that while our software transformation process is in its infancy, we have made some progress in improving our software engineering capabilities," a spokesman said.
Although the company now has limited prospects in the UK, it is still hoping to sell its 5G kits to other parts of Europe.
Earlier this week, the chief of its Italian business suggested that other countries could carry out detailed inspections of their own to help overcome security concerns.
"We will open our insides, we are available to be vivisected to respond to all of this political pressure," said Luigi De Vecchis.
However, the Financial Times has reported that Germany is set to be next to ban local networks from using the firm's 5G products.
One expert said setting up an operation like HSEC required a state to provide considerable resources, and offered no guarantee of success.
"Even if Huawei passes the technical evaluation, which we see from today's report is not certain, they may yet be blocked at the political level," said Emily Taylor, editor of the Journal of Cyber Policy.
Delayed findings
Huawei equipment has been used in the UK for a decade and a half.
Since 2010, a special Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), based in Banbury, has been tasked with checking its telecoms infrastructure products.
An oversight board then examines the work of HCSEC and reports to the UK's National Security Advisor annually, although the latest report covering 2019 was delayed because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Last year, the report raised serious concerns about standard of Huawei's equipment and software, and there is no major change in the latest assessment.
In 2018, Huawei committed to a $2bn (£1.5bn) five-year plan to improve its software engineering processes in response to previous criticism.
But the new report complains that Huawei has yet to convince that it can complete the effort on time, and adds that "unless a detailed and satisfactory plan has been provided, it is not possible to offer any degree of confidence that the identified problems can be addressed by Huawei".
In particular it highlighted "poor coding practices" and said there was a "range of evidence" employees were not following Huawei's own guidelines.
Huawei argues it is still in the early stages of the plan and real improvements will only be reflected in future reports.
Broadband flaw
The report adds the amount of vulnerabilities reported in 2019 were "significantly beyond" the number found in 2018, but says this is partly due to the increasing effectiveness of the checks rather than an overall decline in standards.
But it highlights one vulnerability of "national significance" in 2019, which required extraordinary measures to fix.
The BBC has learned this was related to broadband - but officials do not believe anyone exploited the flaw.
The report covers 2019, and so does not address the period when the US imposed new sanctions affecting Huawei.
Those sanctions technically affect HCSEC itself, since it is part of Huawei, and will require changes in its organisational structure.
Huawei mast
IMAGE COPYRIGHTHUAWEI
image captionHuawei still hopes to supply 5G equipment to other European nations
Huawei is also currently building an alternative supply chain for crucial technology affected by the sanctions.
The report comes a day after NCSC's ex-chief explained why the UK had to be alert to the risks of using Huawei's kit in unusually plain language.
"We have to plan on the basis that at some point, Huawei could be made subservient operationally to the Chinese state," Ciaran Martin told a committee of MPs.
"You always have to have in mind a scenario where every bit of involvement of Huawei was turned against the UK.
"And you don't make that assumption for Nokia, you don't make that assumption for Ericsson."
Additional reporting by Leo Kelion
Related Topics

So? And Britain don't have 5G which China has.
 
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I know media is China is blocked so here it is for all the Chinese fanboys, better than fake Chinese Huawei 5G


£1.3bn spent in spectrum auction to boost UK’s 5G rollout
By Rachael Sharpe 9 days ago
EE, Three, O2 and Vodafone are all set to improve their 5G networks following the latest spectrum auction in the UK.
  • Three

(Image credit: Three)
The results of the UK’s delayed spectrum auction, which has raised £1.3bn for the Treasury, have been released this morning by Ofcom, the telecoms regulator. And it’s good news for owners of 5G phones on the country’s four mobile 5G networks: with EE Limited, Hutchison 3G UK Limited, Telefónica UK Limited and Vodafone Limited all purchasing significant spectrum to expand their 5G networks to more locations and offer stronger signals.

A total of 200 MHz of spectrum was available to bid for in the auction, split across two bands: 80 MHz of spectrum in the 700 MHz band and 120 MHz of spectrum in 3.6-3.8 GHz band. This principle stage of the auction, involved the four companies bidding for airwaves in 34 ‘lots’ to determine how much of the available 5G spectrum they each secured.
Ofcom has revealed that he biggest spenders in the latest auction, which lasted less than a week, were EE, for EE 5G, and Telefónica, for O2 5G – both companies spent around £450m on additional spectrum.
700 MHz and 3.6-3.8 GHz spectrum bands
The spectrum bands for tender were the lower 700 MHz band and the higher 3.6-3.8 GHz frequencies. The low band was most expensive as it helps with indoor and rural coverage, while the mid-band spectrum is part of the primary band for 5G, perfect for boosting mobile data capacity, carrying masses of data-hungry connections.
Three, owned by CK Hutchison, has the largest spectrum holding of all the 5G networks in the UK but spent an additional £280m in this auction, boosting its low band holdings for Three 5G.


“Transformative effect on our customers’ experience indoors and in rural areas.”
Robert Finnegan, Three.

“We are delighted to have won two 10MHz blocks of low frequency spectrum at the auction. This triples the amount of low frequency spectrum we own and will have a transformative effect on our customers’ experience indoors and in rural areas. Coupled with our existing low frequency spectrum and the UK’s largest 5G spectrum holding, we are in a fantastic position to deliver a great network experience for our customers now and in the future,” said Robert Finnegan, Chief Executive Officer at Three.
Lastly, Vodafone UK, the only company to buy only in the higher frequencies, spent £176.4 million on 40 MHz of spectrum in the 3.6 GHz band frequency, to boost Vodafone 5G.
Ahmed Essam, Chief Executive of Vodafone UK, said: “This auction will boost our 5G network capacity. It means we will have the spectrum we need to further the roll-out of 5G to our customers, bringing high speed connectivity and opening up new opportunities for products and services.”
“We have been successful in the 3.6 GHz band and have avoided expenditure on low band spectrum, where it is our strategy to refarm over time our significant 900 MHz holdings to carry 5G traffic,” continued Essam.
Assignment stage

The auction will now move to the ‘assignment’ stage. This is essentially now a single bidding round in which the companies can bid for the frequency positions they prefer for the airwaves they have secured in the principal stage.

The four 5G networks providers have the opportunity to negotiate the frequency positions among themselves and can join together the airwaves they have secured with spectrum they already hold in the wider 3.4-3.8 GHz band.

“With bidding in the principal stage concluded, we now move to the next stage of the auction where the operators will have an opportunity to negotiate the position of their spectrum holdings in the wider band,” said Philip Marnick, Group Director, Spectrum at Ofcom.

“Supporting the UK’s position as a world leader in 5G.”
Philip Marnick, Ofcom.
“This is an important step forward in bringing better mobile services to people – wherever they live, work and travel. These airwaves will help improve coverage for the mobile services people use today, as well as supporting the UK’s position as a world leader in 5G, ” continued Marnick.
 
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I know media is China is blocked so here it is for all the Chinese fanboys, better than fake Chinese Huawei 5G


£1.3bn spent in spectrum auction to boost UK’s 5G rollout
By Rachael Sharpe 9 days ago
EE, Three, O2 and Vodafone are all set to improve their 5G networks following the latest spectrum auction in the UK.
  • Three

(Image credit: Three)
The results of the UK’s delayed spectrum auction, which has raised £1.3bn for the Treasury, have been released this morning by Ofcom, the telecoms regulator. And it’s good news for owners of 5G phones on the country’s four mobile 5G networks: with EE Limited, Hutchison 3G UK Limited, Telefónica UK Limited and Vodafone Limited all purchasing significant spectrum to expand their 5G networks to more locations and offer stronger signals.

A total of 200 MHz of spectrum was available to bid for in the auction, split across two bands: 80 MHz of spectrum in the 700 MHz band and 120 MHz of spectrum in 3.6-3.8 GHz band. This principle stage of the auction, involved the four companies bidding for airwaves in 34 ‘lots’ to determine how much of the available 5G spectrum they each secured.
Ofcom has revealed that he biggest spenders in the latest auction, which lasted less than a week, were EE, for EE 5G, and Telefónica, for O2 5G – both companies spent around £450m on additional spectrum.
700 MHz and 3.6-3.8 GHz spectrum bands
The spectrum bands for tender were the lower 700 MHz band and the higher 3.6-3.8 GHz frequencies. The low band was most expensive as it helps with indoor and rural coverage, while the mid-band spectrum is part of the primary band for 5G, perfect for boosting mobile data capacity, carrying masses of data-hungry connections.
Three, owned by CK Hutchison, has the largest spectrum holding of all the 5G networks in the UK but spent an additional £280m in this auction, boosting its low band holdings for Three 5G.




“We are delighted to have won two 10MHz blocks of low frequency spectrum at the auction. This triples the amount of low frequency spectrum we own and will have a transformative effect on our customers’ experience indoors and in rural areas. Coupled with our existing low frequency spectrum and the UK’s largest 5G spectrum holding, we are in a fantastic position to deliver a great network experience for our customers now and in the future,” said Robert Finnegan, Chief Executive Officer at Three.
Lastly, Vodafone UK, the only company to buy only in the higher frequencies, spent £176.4 million on 40 MHz of spectrum in the 3.6 GHz band frequency, to boost Vodafone 5G.
Ahmed Essam, Chief Executive of Vodafone UK, said: “This auction will boost our 5G network capacity. It means we will have the spectrum we need to further the roll-out of 5G to our customers, bringing high speed connectivity and opening up new opportunities for products and services.”
“We have been successful in the 3.6 GHz band and have avoided expenditure on low band spectrum, where it is our strategy to refarm over time our significant 900 MHz holdings to carry 5G traffic,” continued Essam.
Assignment stage

The auction will now move to the ‘assignment’ stage. This is essentially now a single bidding round in which the companies can bid for the frequency positions they prefer for the airwaves they have secured in the principal stage.

The four 5G networks providers have the opportunity to negotiate the frequency positions among themselves and can join together the airwaves they have secured with spectrum they already hold in the wider 3.4-3.8 GHz band.

“With bidding in the principal stage concluded, we now move to the next stage of the auction where the operators will have an opportunity to negotiate the position of their spectrum holdings in the wider band,” said Philip Marnick, Group Director, Spectrum at Ofcom.


“This is an important step forward in bringing better mobile services to people – wherever they live, work and travel. These airwaves will help improve coverage for the mobile services people use today, as well as supporting the UK’s position as a world leader in 5G, ” continued Marnick.

Britain is really late on 5G. China has 5G since years ago. Oh well, better late than never I suppose.
 
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America and Australia have horrible geography. The vast majority of their population is concentrated on the coast. This is why they never developed any ancient civilization. Ancient civilizations like China and India have good geography. The vast majority of their population in contrast live in the interior, not on the coast. Rivers means good geography. Good geography breeds ancient civilizations.
 
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America and Australia have horrible geography. The vast majority of their population is concentrated on the coast. This is why they never developed any ancient civilization. Ancient civilizations like China and India have good geography. The vast majority of their population in contrast live in the interior, not on the coast. Rivers means good geography. Good geography breeds ancient civilizations.

ohh here is the dumbass again and also. Mayans, Aztecs, Incas would like To disagree with you

Oh and don’t forget the native Indians
 
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