Could the F-7PG package sorted out PAF BVR problem?

[Myth_buster_1]

apparently our F-7PG only carry WVR missiles and not a considerable advantage over previous F-7 models.
what i think PAF should have sorted out a short gap BVR for the F-7PG until more capable BVR would be acquired over the next decade.
since F-7PG were proquired in response for IAF MIG-21 upgrade "BISON" which btw is technically much superior but this could have to sorted out if PAF considered a BVR SD-10 jammer pod "KG300g" and bvr radar "KLJ-7".
so this is what i would have expected to see on our F-7PG..



and lol what do we find out... F-7PG almost 500km away from indian border.

 

[SU-33]

I think it's not suitable for J7PG to use SD-10, because if do that, J7PG need change radar, now Pakistan have FC-1 and F-16block52 and FC-20, so it's not necessary

 

[shehbazi2001]

I think its difficult because both F-7P and F-7PG are derived from early Russian Mig-21 design, perhaps Mig-21F.

If we compare Mig-21F and later models like Mig-21bis, we can see that the nose cone is smaller in Mig-21F and is bigger in later Mig-21 models. The bigger nose cone in later Mig-21 models allow a bigger radar antenna and thus a little more powerful radar than earlier Mig-21 models.

The plus point of Mig-21F is that it provides a better cockpit visibility for the pilot and the strong point of later Mig-21 models is that they have more fuel capacity due to enlarged dorsal spine and a larger nose cone permitting the carriage of an airborne radar of larger antenna.

A weaker radar would make it too much difficult to integrate BVR missiles because the range of BVR like AMRAAM or R-77 shall be almost equal to even more than the radar itself.

To be effective, the airborne radar should have at least two times (ideally three times) the range of the BVR missile. If the range of BVR missile itself is 50km, then the radar should be able to get a lock at the ranges of at least 100km so that the pilot can plan for the interception geometry and utilise the maximum range of the his missile.

The pilot may even choose to fire first shot outside its range just to put the enemy on defensive. If the target is at 60km range and missile can go till 50km, he can let go one shot to make the other pilot just on the defensive maneuver. This shall give him an opportunity for another perfect shot.

 

[qsaark]

I think its difficult because both F-7P and F-7PG are derived from early Russian Mig-21 design, perhaps Mig-21F....... This shall give him an opportunity for another perfect shot.

What about AWACS-assisted BVR? What if a datalink is established between an AWACS and F-7PG? (or any other fighter with limited range radar). Can they fire BVR missiles than? Just curious to know.

 

[Patriot]

What about AWACS-assisted BVR? What if a datalink is established between an AWACS and F-7PG? (or any other fighter with limited range radar). Can they fire BVR missiles than? Just curious to know.

No, Missiles does not work through AWACS Radar.

 

[Awesome]

Best to focus on getting the JF-17s up n running and replace these F-7PGs. We've already started inducting them, the time to start working on a stop gap version is over.

 

[qsaark]

No, Missiles does not work through AWACS Radar.

I have read somewhere that the F22's IFDL will allow the AWACS radar to "indirectly" guide an AMRAAM. The scheme work as follows: the F22 will have a data link established with a local AWACS and will itself be under EMCON. The AWACS radar info will be displayed on the F22's god's eye display. Once a target is selected and launch parameters met, the AMRAAM is launched and recieves mid-flight updates from the F22 via a data link. Once within range of its own monopulse seeker, the AMRAAM goes active. This is a "stealth launch" in that the target recieves no warning of a launch until the AMRAAM goes active.

 

[Nishan_101]

Hi 2 every1 , I just want 2 say that i ave an image in which there is detailed about AMRAAM Aim-120's That they can be ired from grippen whose radars are in silent mode but asisted by a saab-2000 like they were doing the petrolin an saw an enemy aircraft through AEW&C through Link-16 and just shoot teir Aim-120's through it and the mid-course giudence to the missiles is provided by AEW&C's and later when they got near their internal homing takes up.i really don't know how to post that big pic as it could not be posted on this screen even not throug attachment tell PC how u did it ok repli me now

Especially for those ones who thinks that F-7PG's are stationed at Samungali this might be shown tat they r sationed there but they might be sationed near Eastern border and may be they haven't declassified it that they can fire BVR coz they have the same radars as mirage rose-1 n r PAk upgraded with some EU-avionics i really read it in Pakistanidefence forums but no one was sure about it that tey can actually fire BVR
Hey read it

 

[MZUBAIR]

Pakistan currently have 192 F-7.

Questions are!!!!

1) How much they are capable for PAF as we are moving towards 5th generation?

2) Any reasonable upgradation?
3) If we sale them then who will buy them as each plane may be cost around 3 million (I guess). (JF-17 is about 15 to 20 million)
4) Can we ground that large number of planes?
5) How can we make their optimal use as they are our assets either by selling or making them useful or ground them? What will PAF do?

These are very important questions? There should be cost estimation. PAF should not throw them in dustbin. We should sell them or make them usefull. We cant take them as trainers as we are already having and inducting K-8 for trainings.

I need ur lights !!!!

 

[Arsalan]

well i think it wont be a reasonable option!

for sure we cannot turn the F& into a %th generation plane so there is no point in investing on them as they are going to be retired and it will be better sooner than later!!

for the BVR the first squadron of JF17 will be flying soon ad the JF17 joined by the FC20 and F16z will give PAF the BVR punch!!!

 

[MZUBAIR]

well i think it wont be a reasonable option!

for sure we cannot turn the F& into a %th generation plane so there is no point in investing on them as they are going to be retired and it will be better sooner than later!!

for the BVR the first squadron of JF17 will be flying soon ad the JF17 joined by the FC20 and F16z will give PAF the BVR punch!!!

But wt PAF will do?
If they ground them then this might be wastage of huge amount coz F7 is in great number in PAF fleet.

So money does matter? Atleast for Pakitsan?

 

[Arsalan]

Pakistan currently have 192 F-7.

Questions are!!!!

1) How much they are capable for PAF as we are moving towards 5th generation?

2) Any reasonable upgradation?
3) If we sale them then who will buy them as each plane may be cost around 3 million (I guess). (JF-17 is about 15 to 20 million)
4) Can we ground that large number of planes?
5) How can we make their optimal use as they are our assets either by selling or making them useful or ground them? What will PAF do?

These are very important questions? There should be cost estimation. PAF should not throw them in dustbin. We should sell them or make them usefull. We cant take them as trainers as we are already having and inducting K-8 for trainings.

I need ur lights !!!!

1: IMPOSSIBLE!!! inn 5th generation it is BVR , stealth, power, speed!!! F7 lacks all of these so we will be building an entirely new plane!!


2: i think we must retire them in 5 to 6 years, when we have enough JF17 to fill-in! so no point in investing heavily on them!!

3: we wont be trying this as the JF17 is to be the modren repalcement of the F7 and we would like to capture the maket for the more valuable JF17!

4: No, by the time we finish, we will INshallah be having enough JF17, J10 and F16z so that we wot be requiring them!!

5:as far as PAF in concerned, they are trying to keep them operational as second line fighter but i would like to ground them, or sell them so that we can invest on some modren plans!!!

and yes using some as trainers is useful idea!! it will need slight modifications!!!

i hope this helps you dear!!

 

[MZUBAIR]

1: IMPOSSIBLE!!! inn 5th generation it is BVR , stealth, power, speed!!! F7 lacks all of these so we will be building an entirely new plane!!


2: i think we must retire them in 5 to 6 years, when we have enough JF17 to fill-in! so no point in investing heavily on them!!

3: we wont be trying this as the JF17 is to be the modren repalcement of the F7 and we would like to capture the maket for the more valuable JF17!

4: No, by the time we finish, we will INshallah be having enough JF17, J10 and F16z so that we wot be requiring them!!

5:as far as PAF in concerned, they are trying to keep them operational as second line fighter but i would like to ground them, or sell them so that we can invest on some modren plans!!!
and yes using some as trainers is useful idea!! it will need slight modifications!!!

i hope this helps you dear!!

Thanxs

The most important point for me is point number 5 with bold shade

 

[hj786]

Of ~190 F-7, ~60 are newer PG models, they are only about 10 years old so they will stay as front-line fighters for some time longer, until at least 2015. The ~120 F-7P models have had quite a few crashes, so they will start being phased out as soon as they can be replaced by JF I think.
A-5 on the other hand will be kept for longer according to MuradK because it has a good flight safety record. An A-5 squadron is being re-equipped with JF-17 in a couple of months, so I think maybe the older A-5 will be replaced by JF while the newer A-5s with good condition airframes and less flight hours will be kept in front-line service (purely for ground attack missions perhaps).

 

[mean_bird]

The existing planes would be replaced on a squadron by squadron basis until all of them are replaced.

The planes with the older airframe would go first. The retiring airframes have lived their lives so they are little use to anyone. The retiring planes would however, be cannibalized to keep the in-service ones running. Access material in good shape can be exported to other air forces for the same purpose(i.e use spares for their existing planes). The junk (or unusable material) would be recycled. Of course one or two might end up in museums or some round-about.

A sizeable number of F-16s both new blk -52 and MLU'd ones, 4.5 gen FC-20's, combination of mid-tech (initial batches) and hi-end(later batches) of JF-17s in large numbers, possible inclusion of 5th gen. fighter from China if and when available... I think the time ahead for PAF looks quite bright.