Connections between the Indus Valley (Harppan) & Mesopotamia

[Indus Pakistan]

I also believed Swat results will show something else, but they didn't. And for god sake don't say AASI were spread from Turkey to Thailand. The one who need to study is you. AASI isn't found in Turkey but south asians. By pure south asian I meant population that existed before indo-aryan migration. It was mix of AASI and Neolithic Iran. In modern day closest population to ancient Swat samples are dravidians etc. They also found Swat samples that mixed with indo-aryans coming from further west.

Can you please give link for the source. I hate it when people make a claim, again and again, in fact they posit their argumant on it but they fail to provide link. It is entirely bad manners IMO.

 

[Kabira]

Can you please give link for the source. I hate it when people make a claim, again and again, in fact they posit their argumant on it but they fail to provide link. It is entirely bad manners IMO.

from top of my head, I'm not expert in this field.

Just like europeans are 3 way mixture between farmer, IE steppe and local HG. South Asia also had 3 way mixture.

Europeans:
1: Local HG
2: farmers from middle east/anatolia
3: IE invasions from western steppe

south asians:

1: Local HG/AASI like people
2: neolithic farmers
3: Steppe IE invasions

Now keep in mind I'm not saying these people migrated from south india etc IVC is indigenous. Every population in the world is mixed if one go back long enough then we all end up in Africa and same. Since there is no evidence of IVC like civilisation existing in south india or for that matter outside limits of indus valley, its clear they were not recent migrants/invaders. Unlike IE languages which we know where they came from.

Indigenous population of IVC was as one should have expected two way mix and their admixture composition was similar to middle caste dravidians with no steppe admixture. This doesn't mean dravidians migrated to IVC because this mix is pretty much standard in south asia. And even north Pakistan have much less steppe ancestry then european populations.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581

 

[Indus Pakistan]

from top of my head, I'm not expert in this field.

Just like europeans are 3 way mixture between farmer, IE steppe and local HG. South Asia also had 3 way mixture.

Europeans:
1: Local HG
2: farmers from middle east/anatolia
3: IE invasions from western steppe

south asians:

1: Local HG/AASI like people
2: neolithic farmers
3: Steppe IE invasions

Now keep in mind I'm not saying these people migrated from south india etc IVC is indigenous. Every population in the world is mixed if one go back long enough then we all end up in Africa and same. Since there is no evidence of IVC like civilisation existing in south india or for that matter outside limits of indus valley, its clear they were not recent migrants/invaders. Unlike IE languages which we know where they came from.

Indigenous population of IVC was as one should have expected two way mix and their admixture composition was similar to middle caste dravidians with no steppe admixture. This doesn't mean dravidians migrated to IVC because this mix is pretty much standard in south asia. And even north Pakistan have much less steppe ancestry then european populations.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581

It is a long read and I will go through it when I get time but my immediate thoughts are -

• It has not been peer reviewed yet. Therefore it carries less 'weight'.
• My sceptic 'bell' chimes when I detect certain form of articulation. Call it 'Ganga games'. If you see a article that uses names like Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Balochistan, South Asia, India you can bet there is Indian bias in there. Consider this. When we are talking about pre-history the timeline is such that no countries existed. Yet the writers will use have no problem with using Tajikistan, Balochistan, Iran but will avoid the use of 'Pakistan'.
  
• This can be seen in this paper. They use Tajikistan but use 'Swat' but ignore use of 'Pakistan'. Further they take time to use terms like 'Tajikistan' but then jump to use a overarching term as 'South Asia'.

 

[Kabira]

It is a long read and I will go through it when I get time but my immediate thoughts are -

• It has not been peer reviewed yet. Therefore it carries less 'weight'.
• My sceptic 'bell' chimes when I detect certain form of articulation. Call it 'Ganga games'. If you see a article that uses names like Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Balochistan, South Asia, India you can bet there is Indian bias in there. Consider this. When we are talking about pre-history the timeline is such that no countries existed. Yet the writers will use have no problem with using Tajikistan, Balochistan, Iran but will avoid the use of 'Pakistan'.
  
• This can be seen in this paper. They use Tajikistan but use 'Swat' but ignore use of 'Pakistan'. Further they take time to use terms like 'Tajikistan' but then jump to use a overarching term as 'South Asia'.

Yes its well known gangu teli bias. But what we have now is DNA extracted from ancient Swat skeletons. Its hard scientific data, it doesn't matter who wrote the paper with what bias, they do mention Pakistan Swat though and no India. Its no longer just guess work as anyone can get samples and run on their own. Because DNA was extracted in Reich Lab, UK.

 

[Indus Priest King]

The "Dravidian Indus Valley" myth needs to die. Its been debunked several times over.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The "Dravidian Indus Valley" myth needs to die. Its been debunked several times over.

Why did you get banned?

 

[Mamluk]

Yes its well known gangu teli bias. But what we have now is DNA extracted from ancient Swat skeletons. Its hard scientific data, it doesn't matter who wrote the paper with what bias, they do mention Pakistan Swat though and no India. Its no longer just guess work as anyone can get samples and run on their own. Because DNA was extracted in Reich Lab, UK.

Where did you read Swat samples have as much AASI as South Indians?

Also, Indus most likely consisted of a multitude of populations, some more Iran_N type (upper castes) and some more AASI shifted (lower castes).

The "Dravidian Indus Valley" myth needs to die. Its been debunked several times over.

From a linguistic perspective, it can't die, yet. We don't know the language of Indus people. So we cannot say for certain that it was or was not Dravidian.

 

[Indus Priest King]

Why did you get banned?

Ask your admins bro...I get banned for nothing.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Ask your admins bro...I get banned for nothing.

You should tone down the religious stuff. You have alot to offer, but the anti-Islam stuff puts alot of people off. I'm saying this as a fan of your work. Keep it up.

 

[Indus Priest King]

You should tone down the religious stuff. You have alot to offer, but the anti-Islam stuff puts alot of people off. I'm saying this as a fan of your work. Keep it up.

Calling about Islamism and Islamist terrorism is not anti Islam. And even if I were Anti Islam....so what?

Islam is a set if ideas...all ideas should be questioned.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

Present day Pakistanis hav nothing to do with Indus civilisation

 

[LASER1]

Present day Pakistanis hav nothing to do with Indus civilisation

Don't bait and start an unnecessary discussion. Just read and move on.

As Chanakya said prasada sikharasthoupi kakah kim garudayate Will the crow ever be an eagle if it sits in a higher place

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Will the crow ever be an eagle if it sits in a higher place

True. And no amount of pretending to be disciples of Chanakya will change the fact that most of Ganga is just primitive aboriginal cultures with a thin overlay of civilization from our region. Indus like in history has always remained pristine and majestic. Ganga on the other hand evokes beastiality, primitivness etc.

Ganga is Ganga, Indus is Indus and both shall never meet. Both are synonyms for India and Pakistan. One a shudra and the other regal.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

True. And no amount of pretending to be disciples of Chanakya will change the fact that most of Ganga is just primitive aboriginal cultures with a thin overlay of civilization from our region. Indus like in history has always remained pristine and majestic. Ganga on the other hand evokes beastiality, primitivness etc.

Ganga is Ganga, Indus is Indus and both shall never meet. Both are synonyms for India and Pakistan. One a shudra and the other regal.

South asia's most successful rulers(Guptas empire,Mauryan empire,Buddhism( all came from gangetic plateau. Indus valley always at the receiving end of invaders. Indus valley's most prominent kings porus and rajah dahir r only known for their defeats

 

[Indus Pakistan]

South asia's most successful rulers

Good for you. Fantastic. I am glad you feel pride in your Ganga. Go and bath in the Ganga. Celebrate it. Now piss off and leave us with the "failed, invaded Indus". To us it is majestic.

Thank you.