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Connections between the Indus Valley (Harppan) & Mesopotamia

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A new approach to tracking connections between the Indus Valley and Mesopotamia: initial results of strontium isotope analyses from Harappa and Ur: By J. Mark Kenoyer, T. Douglas Price, James H. Burton

"Exchange and interaction between early state-level societies in Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley during the 3rd millennium BC has been documented for some time. The study of this interaction has been dominated by the analysis of artifacts such as carnelian beads and marine shell, along with limited textual evidence. With the aid of strontium, carbon, and oxygen isotopes, it is now possible to develop more direct means for determining the presence of non-local people in both regions. This preliminary study of tooth enamel from individuals buried at Harappa and at the Royal Cemetery of Ur, indicates that it should be feasible to identify Harappans in Mesopotamia. It is also possible to examine the mobility of individuals from communities within the greater Indus Valley region."

Read Full Report > https://www.academia.edu/3511650/A_...s_from_Harappa_and_Ur?ends_sutd_reg_path=true

~ INTRODUCTION ~
Trade connections between the Indus Valley and Mesopotamia have been recognized since the discovery of the Indus civilization in the 1920s, along with the probable corollary that people were moving back and forth from one or both regions (Mackay,1928-29;Marshall, 1931) (Image 1). The primary evidence for interaction between these two distant regions has been distinctive artifacts of Indus origin found in Mesopotamia (Ratnagar, 2004), and Mesopotamian texts that refer to the presence of traders from the land of Meluhha (Parpola et al.,1977;Possehl, 1997).

Indus seals with distinctive iconography and script have been found in Mesopotamian cities and artifacts such as carnelian beads have been recovered in the royal cemeteries at Ur and Kish (Mackay, 1943;Reader,1972;Chakrabarti, 1982). Various objects found at other sites in Mesopotamia and western Iran include Indus-style cubical stone weights, shell bangles and figurines of monkeys that appear to have been produced in and traded from the Indus Valley (Moorey, 1994;Kenoyer, 2008). Preliminary studies of the actual beads from Ur and the sites of Mohenjo-daro and Harappa, indicate that many of the long carnelian beads at Ur were made either in the Indus region or by craftsmen living in Mesopotamia using Indus raw materials and technology (Kenoyer,1997,2008).

Specific objects in Mesopotamia made from shells of marine species found only in the Indus waters,such as Turbinella pyrum (L.), or Lambis truncata sebae which can be found in the Indus as well as off the Gulf of Oman, also provide evidence for the movement of specific goods and presumably traders moving between the Indus, Oman, and the major Mesopotamian cities (Gensheimer, 1984;Kenoyer, 2008a). The goods sent in return from Mesopotamia have not been recovered archaeologically but according to Mesopotamian texts gold along with wool, incense and other perishable items that are not preserved in the archaeological record were exported to the Indus(Crawford,1973;Possehl,1997).

However, it is possible that gold or silver used in the Indus,may have been brought from Mesopotamia and melted down to make Indus-style ornaments (Kenoyer, 1998;Law, 2008). Various models of exchange have been proposed for the movement of goods between the Indus and Mesopotamia a distance of 2500 km that include indirect overland trade through Baluchistan and Iran, direct trade between the major cities in both regions via the Persian Gulf, as well as the possibility of sea trade with middlemen in the Gulf region as the main traders (Lamberg-Karlovsky, 1972;Dales, 1976;Shaffer, 1980;Chakrabarti, 1990;Potts, 1994;Ratnagar, 2004). Although the sourcing of artifacts provides direct evidence for trade, these artifacts cannot confirm the movement of people between the Indus and Mesopotamia.

If direct exchange was taking place and if people were moving from one region to the other, it is not unlikely that trading colonies were established at different locations along the trade route.We do not know if traders were predominantly male or female, but it is not unlikely that both men and women were involved in long distance trade journeys. Furthermore, marriage exchange may have been arranged to finalize trade agreements as documented in later historical periods. If these types of activities were ongoing during the third millennium BC, then it would not be unlikely to find evidence of both men and women from the Indus region in Mesopotamia and vice versa.

If people from one region died and were buried in the other region, it should be possible to identify them using strontium isotope analysis. Isotopic proveniencing has become an important part of the study of ancient human remains in the last 20 years (e.g.,Priceetal.,1994, 2008, 2010;Müller et al., 2003;Benson et al., 2009;Sjögren et al., 2009). The basic principle for the isotopic proveniencing of human remains essentially involves the comparison of isotope ratios in human tooth enamel with local, or baseline, levels in bone or other materials (Price et al., 2002). Because isotopic ratios of strontium, oxygen, and lead vary geographically, values in human teeth (marking place of birth) that differ from the local ratio (place of death) indicate mobility. The method is discussed in more detail in a subsequent section of this article.
 
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My facebook post >
 
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A new approach to tracking connections between the Indus Valley and Mesopotamia: initial results of strontium isotope analyses from Harappa and Ur: By J. Mark Kenoyer, T. Douglas Price, James H. Burton

"Exchange and interaction between early state-level societies in Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley during the 3rd millennium BC has been documented for some time. The study of this interaction has been dominated by the analysis of artifacts such as carnelian beads and marine shell, along with limited textual evidence. With the aid of strontium, carbon, and oxygen isotopes, it is now possible to develop more direct means for determining the presence of non-local people in both regions. This preliminary study of tooth enamel from individuals buried at Harappa and at the Royal Cemetery of Ur, indicates that it should be feasible to identify Harappans in Mesopotamia. It is also possible to examine the mobility of individuals from communities within the greater Indus Valley region."

Read Full Report > https://www.academia.edu/3511650/A_...s_from_Harappa_and_Ur?ends_sutd_reg_path=true

~ INTRODUCTION ~
Trade connections between the Indus Valley and Mesopotamia have been recognized since the discovery of the Indus civilization in the 1920s, along with the probable corollary that people were moving back and forth from one or both regions (Mackay,1928-29;Marshall, 1931) (Image 1). The primary evidence for interaction between these two distant regions has been distinctive artifacts of Indus origin found in Mesopotamia (Ratnagar, 2004), and Mesopotamian texts that refer to the presence of traders from the land of Meluhha (Parpola et al.,1977;Possehl, 1997).

Indus seals with distinctive iconography and script have been found in Mesopotamian cities and artifacts such as carnelian beads have been recovered in the royal cemeteries at Ur and Kish (Mackay, 1943;Reader,1972;Chakrabarti, 1982). Various objects found at other sites in Mesopotamia and western Iran include Indus-style cubical stone weights, shell bangles and figurines of monkeys that appear to have been produced in and traded from the Indus Valley (Moorey, 1994;Kenoyer, 2008). Preliminary studies of the actual beads from Ur and the sites of Mohenjo-daro and Harappa, indicate that many of the long carnelian beads at Ur were made either in the Indus region or by craftsmen living in Mesopotamia using Indus raw materials and technology (Kenoyer,1997,2008).

Specific objects in Mesopotamia made from shells of marine species found only in the Indus waters,such as Turbinella pyrum (L.), or Lambis truncata sebae which can be found in the Indus as well as off the Gulf of Oman, also provide evidence for the movement of specific goods and presumably traders moving between the Indus, Oman, and the major Mesopotamian cities (Gensheimer, 1984;Kenoyer, 2008a). The goods sent in return from Mesopotamia have not been recovered archaeologically but according to Mesopotamian texts gold along with wool, incense and other perishable items that are not preserved in the archaeological record were exported to the Indus(Crawford,1973;Possehl,1997).

However, it is possible that gold or silver used in the Indus,may have been brought from Mesopotamia and melted down to make Indus-style ornaments (Kenoyer, 1998;Law, 2008). Various models of exchange have been proposed for the movement of goods between the Indus and Mesopotamia a distance of 2500 km that include indirect overland trade through Baluchistan and Iran, direct trade between the major cities in both regions via the Persian Gulf, as well as the possibility of sea trade with middlemen in the Gulf region as the main traders (Lamberg-Karlovsky, 1972;Dales, 1976;Shaffer, 1980;Chakrabarti, 1990;Potts, 1994;Ratnagar, 2004). Although the sourcing of artifacts provides direct evidence for trade, these artifacts cannot confirm the movement of people between the Indus and Mesopotamia.

If direct exchange was taking place and if people were moving from one region to the other, it is not unlikely that trading colonies were established at different locations along the trade route.We do not know if traders were predominantly male or female, but it is not unlikely that both men and women were involved in long distance trade journeys. Furthermore, marriage exchange may have been arranged to finalize trade agreements as documented in later historical periods. If these types of activities were ongoing during the third millennium BC, then it would not be unlikely to find evidence of both men and women from the Indus region in Mesopotamia and vice versa.

If people from one region died and were buried in the other region, it should be possible to identify them using strontium isotope analysis. Isotopic proveniencing has become an important part of the study of ancient human remains in the last 20 years (e.g.,Priceetal.,1994, 2008, 2010;Müller et al., 2003;Benson et al., 2009;Sjögren et al., 2009). The basic principle for the isotopic proveniencing of human remains essentially involves the comparison of isotope ratios in human tooth enamel with local, or baseline, levels in bone or other materials (Price et al., 2002). Because isotopic ratios of strontium, oxygen, and lead vary geographically, values in human teeth (marking place of birth) that differ from the local ratio (place of death) indicate mobility. The method is discussed in more detail in a subsequent section of this article.


You Should Also Do A Thread On Historian Robert Toynbee Who Made The Same Claims Also Saying That There Was No Resemblance Between Indus and Ganges Valley Civilizations But There Was Resemblance Between Indus Valley and The Fertile Crescent
 
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If you weren't so anti-Islam, you'd be a great member of the forum.
 
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You Should Also Do A Thread On Historian Robert Toynbee Who Made The Same Claims Also Saying That There Was No Resemblance Between Indus and Ganges Valley Civilizations But There Was Resemblance Between Indus Valley and The Fertile Crescent

There was practically no ganges civilization...I recall being at a seminar for Harappa 2 years back where one person beautifully summed up the two regions.

"While we we're building Harappa and Moehenjo Daro, they were still shooting arrows at the sun".
 
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Pakistan Swat ancient DNA samples have proven beyond doubt IVC people were very Dravidian like before indic/indo-aryan invasion. @Joe Shearer your take on this?
 
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Did you even read the study?
They were local HG + Iranian Neolithic mix.

Yeah I did, they were similar to Pakistan christians, mussalis etc like communities of Pakistan genetically. I just said dravidian to make the point. Because they do cluster with dravidians who are also local HG and + Iranian neolithic.
 
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Yeah I did, they were similar to Pakistan christians, mussalis etc like communities of Pakistan genetically. I just said dravidian to make the point. Because they do cluster with dravidians who are also local HG and + Iranian neolithic.
Not sure where you are getting your information. Christians?

Hunter Gatherers who lived across the Middle east and South Asia from at least 7000BC cannot be compared with Dravidians who are a modern group mostly settled in South India and who have seen their own ancestry develop over the last 9000 years, separate from Indus valley region.
 
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Not sure where you are getting your information. Christians?

Hunter Gatherers who lived across the Middle east and South Asia from at least 7000BC cannot be compared with Dravidians who are a modern group mostly settled in South India and who have seen their own ancestry develop over the last 9000 years, separate from Indus valley region.

Very highly AASI shifted population that lived in Swat valley before invasion of indo-aryan is similar to generic central indians, dravidians etc. Basically they were purest south asians without any steppe ancestry. In modern world genetically they would be most similar to dalits, dravidians etc Ok? Or are you going to deny ancient DNA extracted from Swat skeletons.
 
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Very highly AASI shifted population that lived in Swat valley before invasion of indo-aryan is similar to generic central indians, dravidians etc. Basically they were purest south asians without any steppe ancestry. In modern world genetically they would be most similar to dalits, dravidians etc Ok? Or are you going to deny ancient DNA extracted from Swat skeletons.

Seriously, read the study again. You obviously haven't understood a word of it.

There is no such thing as "pure South Asian". The Hunter Gatherers that we know as AASI were spread from Turkey to Thailand. Everyone has varying degrees of this ancestry. On top of that, every population in the subcontinent was already mixed with Iranian neolithics well before IVC emerged, also to varying degrees.

Modern Dravidians have since mixed with other groups, including Australian and east Asian groups to some extent, so they are not "pure" in any way either.

You are seriously misinformed.
 
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You guys should read the study [link below] which also connects Mesopotamia with Indus.


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"the available 14C data with the archaeological evidence for early Neolithic sites in South Asia to analyze the spatio-temporal continuity of the Neolithic dispersal from the Near East through the Middle East and to the Indian subcontinent. We reveal an approximately linear dependence between the age and the geodesic distance from the Near East, suggesting a systematic (but not necessarily uniform) spread at an average speed of about 0.65 km/yr."

Citation: Gangal K, Sarson GR, Shukurov A (2014) The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia. PLoS ONE 9(5): e95714. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0095714
Editor: David Caramelli, University of Florence, Italy

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0095714


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The interaction between sites in the high plateau of Iran, Afghanistan, Western Pakistan and the verdant Indus River Basin in Pakistan has been known for some time.

"This paper presents a systematic review of the archaeological evidence for cultural interaction between the Helmand and the Indus during the 3rd millennium BCE. A series of artefacts found at Shahr-i Sokhta and nearby sites (Iranian Seistan) that were presumably imported from Baluchistan and the Indus domain are discussed, together with finds from the French excavations at Mundigak (Kandahar, Afghanistan)"

Cortesi, Maurisio Tosi,Alessandra Lazzari et al - Cultural Relationships beyond Iranian Pleateu, Helmand Civilization, Balochistan and the Indus River.


Source > Cultural Relationships beyond the Iranian Plateau: The Helmand Civilization, Baluchistan and the Indus Valley in the 3rd Millennium BCE on JSTOR


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As can be seen Gangadesh is conspiciously absent.

@UnitedPak
@Indus Priest King
 
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Seriously, read the study again. You obviously haven't understood a word of it.

There is no such thing as "pure South Asian". The Hunter Gatherers that we know as AASI were spread from Turkey to Thailand. Everyone has varying degrees of this ancestry. On top of that, every population in the subcontinent was already mixed with Iranian neolithics well before IVC emerged, also to varying degrees.

Modern Dravidians have since mixed with other groups, including Australian and east Asian groups to some extent, so they are not "pure" in any way either.

You are seriously misinformed.

I also believed Swat results will show something else, but they didn't. And for god sake don't say AASI were spread from Turkey to Thailand. The one who need to study is you. AASI isn't found in Turkey but south asians. By pure south asian I meant population that existed before indo-aryan migration. It was mix of AASI and Neolithic Iran. In modern day closest population to ancient Swat samples are dravidians etc. They also found Swat samples that mixed with indo-aryans coming from further west.
 
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