Concepts / Ideas for the Pakistan Navy

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Drone carriers

I like the idea of UCAV's for the navy. PN don't have an airwing of their own, PAF is limited in it's resources for the moment, a fleet of UCAV would help give PN airstrike capability, and would also likely be difficult to intercept.

PLATFORMS
1) Carrier vessel. Ideally a small to midsized carrier, able to accommodate 20 or so jets to provide air defence to the fleet.....like the Italians of WW2 we are living in a fools paradise if we think that we don't need carriers, that land-based airpower is sufficient and they were operating in the narrow Mediterranean, not the open ocean as we are.

To everyone saying carriers and fixed-wing naval assets, it might be worth it for us to follow Turkey's developments.

Not only are they developing UCAVs capable of operating from their current LHD (TCG Anadolu) without catapults, but the Turks are even studying what it'd take to make the Hurjet operable from that ship too (with minimal modifications to the ship).

I think this work is gamechanging. If Turkey succeeds, then even the PN can have a carrier-based aviation wing consisting of both manned fighters and drones. The dependency would be getting an LHD, which are generally available for around $2-ish billion US from several countries (China, Italy, Spain, etc).

The near thing about LHDs is that they're also configurable for amphibious operations. So the PN wouldn't have to stick with a single-purpose design, its 'carriers' can double as troop carriers, armour freighters, HADR assets, etc.

The downside would be that a theoretical PN air wing wouldn't have a large twin-engine fighter -- it's main asset would basically be the Hurjet. So, we are talking about more limited range and payload. Then again, it shouldn't be too far from the JF-17, so if the PAF can use the JF-17 for maritime ops, then the PN should be able to use the Hurjet?

 

[sparten]

We would need a maritime version of the Thunder, most likely based on the Thunder Bravo. Ski jump would be enough.

 

[untitled]

To everyone saying carriers and fixed-wing naval assets, it might be worth it for us to follow Turkey's developments.

I was thinking more along the lines of turboprop drones. My understanding is that props are much easier to launch and recover than jet powered aircraft. Secondly they are much cheaper hence disposable. They will provide a significant capability boost to our surface fleet which has just helicopters to rely on for now. Armed with heat seeking missiles and/or antiship missiles they can take pot shots at enemy aircraft/vessels or in worst case scenarios bear the brunt of enemy first wave providing ample warning to the fleet behind

 

[nomi007]

PN need to induct more 10-12 mini subs.
2nd and most important is to purchase any advance multipurpose satellite like IN.
To protect our costal line which is approximately 700+ km long, we have to induct Unmanned surface ships in large numbers for 24x7 hrs surveillance.

 

[SpaceMan18]

To everyone saying carriers and fixed-wing naval assets, it might be worth it for us to follow Turkey's developments.

Not only are they developing UCAVs capable of operating from their current LHD (TCG Anadolu) without catapults, but the Turks are even studying what it'd take to make the Hurjet operable from that ship too (with minimal modifications to the ship).

I think this work is gamechanging. If Turkey succeeds, then even the PN can have a carrier-based aviation wing consisting of both manned fighters and drones. The dependency would be getting an LHD, which are generally available for around $2-ish billion US from several countries (China, Italy, Spain, etc).

The near thing about LHDs is that they're also configurable for amphibious operations. So the PN wouldn't have to stick with a single-purpose design, its 'carriers' can double as troop carriers, armour freighters, HADR assets, etc.

The downside would be that a theoretical PN air wing wouldn't have a large twin-engine fighter -- it's main asset would basically be the Hurjet. So, we are talking about more limited range and payload. Then again, it shouldn't be too far from the JF-17, so if the PAF can use the JF-17 for maritime ops, then the PN should be able to use the Hurjet?

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Eh my nation wanted LHDs by 2030 so I guess lmao

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

To everyone saying carriers and fixed-wing naval assets, it might be worth it for us to follow Turkey's developments.

Not only are they developing UCAVs capable of operating from their current LHD (TCG Anadolu) without catapults, but the Turks are even studying what it'd take to make the Hurjet operable from that ship too (with minimal modifications to the ship).

I think this work is gamechanging. If Turkey succeeds, then even the PN can have a carrier-based aviation wing consisting of both manned fighters and drones. The dependency would be getting an LHD, which are generally available for around $2-ish billion US from several countries (China, Italy, Spain, etc).

The near thing about LHDs is that they're also configurable for amphibious operations. So the PN wouldn't have to stick with a single-purpose design, its 'carriers' can double as troop carriers, armour freighters, HADR assets, etc.

The downside would be that a theoretical PN air wing wouldn't have a large twin-engine fighter -- it's main asset would basically be the Hurjet. So, we are talking about more limited range and payload. Then again, it shouldn't be too far from the JF-17, so if the PAF can use the JF-17 for maritime ops, then the PN should be able to use the Hurjet?

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Man been saying something similar in form of "mini carriers" for quite some time. If this materialises that would just be so awesome in my view. Don't you think this would have the potential to open up the naval carrier door for several middle income nations?

 

[White Lion]

To everyone saying carriers and fixed-wing naval assets, it might be worth it for us to follow Turkey's developments.

Not only are they developing UCAVs capable of operating from their current LHD (TCG Anadolu) without catapults, but the Turks are even studying what it'd take to make the Hurjet operable from that ship too (with minimal modifications to the ship).

I think this work is gamechanging. If Turkey succeeds, then even the PN can have a carrier-based aviation wing consisting of both manned fighters and drones. The dependency would be getting an LHD, which are generally available for around $2-ish billion US from several countries (China, Italy, Spain, etc).

The near thing about LHDs is that they're also configurable for amphibious operations. So the PN wouldn't have to stick with a single-purpose design, its 'carriers' can double as troop carriers, armour freighters, HADR assets, etc.

The downside would be that a theoretical PN air wing wouldn't have a large twin-engine fighter -- it's main asset would basically be the Hurjet. So, we are talking about more limited range and payload. Then again, it shouldn't be too far from the JF-17, so if the PAF can use the JF-17 for maritime ops, then the PN should be able to use the Hurjet?

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There were Jeep Carriers during WW2 used for protecting Shipping lines. Pakistan could develop something on these lines in 6000-6500 tone with attack helicopters and drones with a crew required for a destroyer. This could potentially become a game changer in Arabian Sea and South China Sea.

Escort carrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TigerOfMysore]

I would let others talk about surface and sub-surface systems. The one that interests me the most is an integrated sensor (surface but more importantly sub-surface) network integrated with sat comms to give early warning and threat detection. This is more a concept as there is very limited OSINT on these networks. But I have a number of ideas on how this can be developed.

 

[Zarvan]

I thought I'd start a thread that discusses concepts or ideas the Pakistan Navy (PN) should pursue in the coming years.

Note: I'm open to talking about developmental ideas, recommended purchases, etc. Just keep it within reason.

For example, I was looking through some of the things Turkey's working on at IDEF 2021, and noticed STM's new 'Multi-Purpose Attack Craft' (MPAC). I think the MPAC can be a good idea of where the PN can take the FAC(M) / Azmat-class should the PN need a larger mini-corvette type of platform (via DefenceTurk).

I think we can stretch the FAC(M) to retain its AShW/LACM capacity but also add ASW capabilities. In fact, Turkey is developing its own torpedo-tube launchers for its lightweight torpedoes. We basically have an option to build a low-cost multi-mission solution to fill our littoral waters.

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One of the major idea which I am propagating for years is Pakistan having Ships and Submarines which have those VLS which can carry and fire long range land attack cruise missiles. Like 1600 KM cruise missile.


Plus yes the ships you have mentioned along with subs which STM offers one with 19 crew members and 6 special forces could be great for coastal defence and littoral waters

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

One of the major idea which I am propagating for years is Pakistan having Ships and Submarines which have those VLS which can carry and fire long range land attack cruise missiles. Like 1600 KM cruise missile.


Plus yes the ships you have mentioned along with subs which STM offers one with 19 crew members and 6 special forces could be great for coastal defence and littoral waters

This would likely be a strategic capability, i.e., something Pakistan would have to develop on its own. I don't think we'd see it on the PN's conventional subs as (I think) those subs are primarily for anti-sub and anti-ship operations. However, the PN does have a strategic deterrent platform in the works (possibly a boomer), so a VLS would likely be useful for it.

 

[Metal 0-1]

My humble concept;

 

[Jamie Brooks]

Since we are building 20 major naval vessels, we need good ASW helicopters. The AW-101 configured for ASW and CSAR missions will be the best obtainable option we will get. However pakistan “must” get an off set agreement with leonardo and have half the ordered aircrafts be manufactured in pakistan. Especially the sensors and the radar complex. It will not be cheap as poland is getting 4 for approx 107$ million a piece. If money is the main hurdle try for the second best option AW-159 wildcat. Whatever number we decide to procure half should be made in pakistan. I would pick a western ASW Helicopter over any available Chinese option any day. Turkey started the same way by manufacturing under liscence in TAI aircraft parts , radar and sensors, look where it has gotten them.

 

[313ghazi]

Turkish shipyard sails into unveiling 1st unmanned anti-submarine warfare boat

The Turkish Ares Shipyard, which has developed the country’s first armored unmanned surface vessel (AUSV), in cooperation with Ankara-based Meteksan...

www.dailysabah.com

We just need to copy the Turks. They seem to have amazing ideas nowadays.
The first one, the AUSV, has a cruising range of 400 kilometers (249 miles), a speed of 65 kph (40.3 mph), day and night vision capabilities and a national encrypted communications infrastructure.

The remote-controlled, autonomous unmanned marine product can be operated in land vehicles and from the headquarters command center or on floating platforms. It can carry out tasks such as reconnaissance, surveillance, intelligence, surface warfare, asymmetric warfare, armed escort and force protection along with strategic facility security.

It bears a pod with four laser-guided Cirit missiles and two laser-guided long-range anti-tank missiles (L-UMTAS) launchers, both developed by another leading Turkish defense company, Roketsan.

 

[imranyounus]

One thing which I always wanted was a navy base in open water. we don't have any island in open water. but may be we can get Chinese help and build a man made island in Arabian sea.

 

[Foinikas]

I have a question:

What was the reaction of the Pakistani government,Armed Forces and Navy commanders immidiately after the 1971 war,concerning Operation Trident? What were the actions,philosophies and plans to rebuild the Pakistani Navy? And do they still affect the strategic mindset and planning of the Navy today?