Commanders to decide nature of NWA operation

[Irfan Baloch]

The Haqqani Network had attacked the Indian Embassy in Kabul in which 48 people died and they are behind allegedly in a number of high profile attacks in Afghanistan, this operation hopefully will take the Haqqani Network out completely.

you cant be entirely sure who actually did it unless there were some confessions by the group
it could be anyone of them. why do you think Mullah Omar wont be involved? for him anyone helping the occupation and supporting the American sponsored regime is a valid target.

and by the way, Afghan taliban dont recognise the Haqqani network, Haqanis are taliban themselves and form the southern part of the taliban command structure.

US Govt and media coined that name due to the former Mujahideen commander Jalal uddin Haqqani who had close links with ISI and CIA during Afghan jihad days against the soviets but so did Hikat Yar and Burhan uddin Rabbani...

there is no soft corner or special love for one or other part of the Afghan Taliban specially when its they who support, traing and give sanctuaries to sectarian terrorists of southern Punjab who are commonly known as Punjabi Taliban.

sorry for the above description, I just felt compelled to clarify that we cant just pick and choose the segments of the Afghan Taliban, to our liking or disliking. there was a video on youtube uploaded by some terrorist sympathiser which included the oaths of TTP, so called Hqqanis, Al Qaeda declaring Mullah Omar as their Amir.. the video was later removed but maybe still exists with a different name.

this operation wont be done in isolation and US might be providing a lot of airborne intel and in the end hopefully ALL terrorists will be targeted, not just one or two otherwise this fight will never end.

till today Taliban, Al Qaeda, LeT and BLA are counting on our mutual mistrust and non-cooperation. its time we disappointment "them" and go all out for those organisations as well that are not hurting us directly.

this operation should also mean that anti Pakistan terrorists like TTP and BLA should also dont find any support in Afghanistan.

 

[TaimiKhan]

If the US can't control / kill the Afghan Taliban with all the high tech gear and the mega operations to clear out areas which still have Taliban in them, then why are people expecting us to do better ??

Doing an operation in NW targeting the Taliban resisting US occupation would be a blunder, which will result in hundreds of soldiers getting killed in the long run and may be thousands and thousands of civilians will be killed as of reprisal attacks inside Pakistan.

And i can assure you the Taliban will not be decimated or killed, rather they will live another day to fight, just like what we have seen in Afghanistan.

Better solution is to start monitoring the crossing points on the border and target the infiltrators with drones, set special forces ambush parties and try to kill and capture, get info from the captured ones and target their hideouts and places of living inside Afghanistan, once things start getting controlled inside Afghanistan, then we will be able to break the backbone of the militants.

Doing operation in NWA right now will be the biggest blunder of all times and the costliest.

 

[rohailmalhi]

If the US can't control / kill the Afghan Taliban with all the high tech gear and the mega operations to clear out areas which still have Taliban in them, then why are people expecting us to do better ??

Doing an operation in NW targeting the Taliban resisting US occupation would be a blunder, which will result in hundreds of soldiers getting killed in the long run and may be thousands and thousands of civilians will be killed as of reprisal attacks inside Pakistan.

And i can assure you the Taliban will not be decimated or killed, rather they will live another day to fight, just like what we have seen in Afghanistan.

Better solution is to start monitoring the crossing points on the border and target the infiltrators with drones, set special forces ambush parties and try to kill and capture, get info from the captured ones and target their hideouts and places of living inside Afghanistan, once things start getting controlled inside Afghanistan, then we will be able to break the backbone of the militants.

Doing operation in NWA right now will be the biggest blunder of all times and the costliest.

Very well said........

We need to focus our energy in better way rather than we bleed ourself to death .This is what Americans wants to bleed our Army ............

This is total blunder I dont know what the kiyani was thinking.......

 

[TaimiKhan]

Very well said........

We need to focus our energy in better way rather than we bleed ourself to death .This is what Americans wants to bleed our Army ............

This is total blunder I dont know what the kiyani was thinking.......

Army has for now refuted the reports of any operation. The story is either bogus or some other agreement between the intel chiefs of bother countries has been given another color.

 

[clmeta]

Are you really a Pakistani?
If yes, don't say such things in the streets.

Haqqanis or Talibans are not killing foreigners (Even if they did that it would be wrong as we are not at war with western countries) but they have killed more Muslims but according to guys Muslim cant kill a fellow muslim????If the entire population supports taliban type people then we can safely say that Pakistani Common People also deserves some pounding from drones.I mean if you people hate US so much then declare a war dont be a pu$$y.

 

[LeGenD]

If the US can't control / kill the Afghan Taliban with all the high tech gear and the mega operations to clear out areas which still have Taliban in them, then why are people expecting us to do better ??

Because Taliban support is rooted not just in Afghanistan but also in Pakistan.

US defeated (Afghan) Taliban and ousted it from power in Afghanistan; replacing it with Northern Alliance. However, remnants of (Afghan) Taliban went in to hiding in Pakistan and the movement got revived with help from its Pakistani allies and came back to the picture several years later after reforming itself. This is the reason for frustation of Obama administration.

TTP is actually a product of Taliban sympathizers within our country; like it or not. The purpose of this movement is to break Pak-US alliance on WOT and enforce Talibanization in Pakistan. Don't trust me on this? Well....TTP is currently operating in Taliban areas of influence in Afghanistan and attacks Pakistan from Afghanistan.

To sum this up, (Afghan) Taliban doesn't gives two shits about Pakistan and is only looking after its interests. And our gullible society have fallen for its ruse.

I personally have no issues with Afghan resistance effort. However, why should Pakistan be part of it?

If many in Pakistan are fed up of WOT and want to get out from it then this plan should involve kicking (Afghan) Taliban elements and its allies out from our country as well. Fair game is that (Afghan) Taliban along with its allies and ISAF sort out their problems in Afghanistan and not in Pakistan.

Doing an operation in NW targeting the Taliban resisting US occupation would be a blunder, which will result in hundreds of soldiers getting killed in the long run and may be thousands and thousands of civilians will be killed as of reprisal attacks inside Pakistan.

And i can assure you the Taliban will not be decimated or killed, rather they will live another day to fight, just like what we have seen in Afghanistan.

Better solution is to start monitoring the crossing points on the border and target the infiltrators with drones, set special forces ambush parties and try to kill and capture, get info from the captured ones and target their hideouts and places of living inside Afghanistan, once things start getting controlled inside Afghanistan, then we will be able to break the backbone of the militants.

Doing operation in NWA right now will be the biggest blunder of all times and the costliest.

Listen brother, we can either;

(1) abandon both sides in this war

OR

(2) choose to side with one.

We cannot play the game of duplicity in this war because neither side is stupid. We will end up hurting ourselves with the game of duplicity in much more worse fashion.

Think about reprisals of not coming to terms with ISAF in this war. This strategy will not just damage Pakistan's reputation globally but also hurt its interests in the long run.

Taliban is not the way forward for Pakistan. Global community is.

You think that Taliban cares about Pakistani interests? Think again. Taliban doesn't gives a damn if Pakistan gets burned or not.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Because Taliban support is rooted not just in Afghanistan but also in Pakistan.

US defeated (Afghan) Taliban and ousted it from power in Afghanistan; replacing it with Northern Alliance. However, remnants of (Afghan) Taliban went in to hiding in Pakistan and the movement got revived with help from its Pakistani allies and came back to the picture several years later after reforming itself. This is the reason for frustation of Obama administration.

TTP is actually a product of Taliban sympathizers within our country; like it or not. The purpose of this movement is to break Pak-US alliance on WOT and enforce Talibanization in Pakistan. Don't trust me on this? Well....TTP is currently operating in Taliban areas of influence in Afghanistan and attacks Pakistan from Afghanistan.

To sum this up, (Afghan) Taliban doesn't gives two shits about Pakistan and is only looking after its interests. And our gullible society have fallen for its ruse.

I personally have no issues with Afghan resistance effort. However, why should Pakistan be part of it?

If many in Pakistan are fed up of WOT and want to get out from it then this plan should involve kicking (Afghan) Taliban elements and its allies out from our country as well. Fair game is that (Afghan) Taliban along with its allies and ISAF sort out their problems in Afghanistan and not in Pakistan.


Listen brother, we can either;

(1) abandon both sides in this war

OR

(2) choose to side with one.

We cannot play the game of duplicity in this war because neither side is stupid. We will end up hurting ourselves with the game of duplicity in much more worse fashion.

Think about reprisals of not coming to terms with ISAF in this war. This strategy will not just damage Pakistan's reputation globally but also hurt its interests in the long run.

Taliban is not the way forward for Pakistan. Global community is.

You think that Taliban cares about Pakistani interests? Think again. Taliban doesn't gives a damn if Pakistan gets burned or not.

Buddy, i am not voting for or trying to side with Taliban, nor i am asking Pakistan to show duplicity in its action.

ISAF/NATO/US are not serious about Afghanistan, had they been they would have contributed atleast 300K troops and done what i just said. If we have shown double sided actions, US/NATO have not been different, at the time of operation in SWA, they emptied their border positions and let militants cross over freely, same actions happened in the times of Mohmand and Bajaur operations. From day one US was not serious about fixing Afghanistan the way they showed resolve in fixing Iraq.

My advice is simple, don't mess with Taliban right now, we don't have the resources and we can't fight them. We will loose badly. Thousands more will die and even then Taliban will not be finished rather they will get more manpower through our actions. Before we do any action in NWA, NATO/US needs to do action first on their side. Bring in more military, spare some drones and target the routes used for infiltration across the border, Afghan taliban reach Kabul with local assistance, close these routes, they are getting majority of weapons not from Pakistan rather from somewhere else. Look at our story, since we have been doing military operations in the hot beds of militants who were targeting Pakistan, bomb blasts have gone down, major militant actions have died down, now they are on the defensive and we have an upper hand.

So my suggestion is simple, don't mess with taliban, use drones as much as possible and take our their leadership, and choke their supply routes for weapons & supplies.

For NATO/US, bring in more soldiers and assets, control the border and its areas, don't let the militants have safe heavens, try to route out the safe heavens inside Afghanistan.

The major factor is fixing the Afghan side, you do it, you break the militants.

 

[Awesome]

I would never accept boots on the ground by ISAF forces, nor any cross border assaults, nor the use of drones.

ISAF's role should be simply to block th exit points into Afghanistan.

 

[Armstrong]

@ Tamii : Mate, is there any significant support for the Taliban amongst the common Pakistani Pashtoons ? And I'm talking about the common man - the labourer, the driver, the cobbler etc. and not bankers, teachers or civil servants.

I ask this because I heard that the Taliban movement in the past few years has extended beyond the Islamic dynamic to it and also incorporated a sense of Pashtoon Nationalism in it against the perceived discrimination in Afghanistan of favouring Non-Pashtoons over Pashtoons whether its the Armed Forces or the Bureaucracy !

 

[Jango]

The problem as Taimi pointed out is that even if we do an operation, they will simply retreat off into Afghanistan, and regroup. Something in coordination with the US needs to be done to effectively handle them. A hammer and anvil operation has to be done, but when it was tried before the Americans were nowhere to be sen

 

[TaimiKhan]

@ Tamii : Mate, is there any significant support for the Taliban amongst the common Pakistani Pashtoons ? And I'm talking about the common man - the labourer, the driver, the cobbler etc. and not bankers, teachers or civil servants.

I ask this because I heard that the Taliban movement in the past few years has extended beyond the Islamic dynamic to it and also incorporated a sense of Pashtoon Nationalism in it against the perceived discrimination in Afghanistan of favouring Non-Pashtoons over Pashtoons whether its the Armed Forces or the Bureaucracy !

Yaar don't think the Pushtun nationalism has so far played out in KPK or Pakistan by the TTP guys, yeah its one of the factors which the Afghan side use on their side, but i haven't so far heard anything on this side. But whatever support is provided from Pushtuns is either due to the Islamic factor which consists of helping muslim brother thing against the occupying infidel and the ones who want their form of sharia and some do it out of fear when threatened by the Talibans.

The Pushtun discrimination factor is hot on the Afghan side which is a fact, not on this side.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Better solution is to start monitoring the crossing points on the border and target the infiltrators with drones, set special forces ambush parties and try to kill and capture, get info from the captured ones and target their hideouts and places of living inside Afghanistan, once things start getting controlled inside Afghanistan, then we will be able to break the backbone of the militants.

Doing operation in NWA right now will be the biggest blunder of all times and the costliest.

thats it, thats what this operation might be.

a conventional war itself is a very vague and fluid concept and one has to improvise and adapt. fighting an insurgency or counter terrorism operation against an illusive enemy takes this concept to nth level or uncertainty and extraordinary approach


what you are saying might form the biggest part of the operation.
by operation we must not confuse infantry division flanked by armoured columns moving into the area in full frontal attack formation.


civilain casualities will have to be avoided
escape routes checked
key points secured
supply lines for troops taking part in operation kept secure
real time or rapid intel on enemy movement
eliminating the chance or discouraging the terrorists from crossing in or out of Afghanistan/ Pakistan


this is why I suggested that NATO forces do their part simultaneously on their end.

the enemy has the advantage of mobility, surprise and high reaction time which are the hallmarks of the gorilla war
that advantage has to be taken away by doing the same with it and doing it better through better fire-power, training and other technological resources at hand.

brother
what you just described above that I highlighted in bold can only be called an operation and I agree with your concerns. even if this plan is successfully executed we cant be 100% sure that anti-Pakistan or anti-Afghan taliban will be eliminated completely.
they live every day expecting an onslaught and might do the disappearing act the moment there are the sounds of incoming helicopters.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

Then don't ***** and moan about Drone Strikes - I mean how can Pakistan claim drone strikes to be a violation of sovereignty if it does not have the ability to exercise sovereignty in that particular area in the first place?

sdfu and dont talk to me like that ever again,

im not moaning, u want more fking suicide bomber killing our citizens in markets and mosques? 40000 people are already killed and how many more are going to die just because of one stupid operation.

 

[Viper0011.]

If the US can't control / kill the Afghan Taliban with all the high tech gear and the mega operations to clear out areas which still have Taliban in them, then why are people expecting us to do better ??

Doing an operation in NW targeting the Taliban resisting US occupation would be a blunder, which will result in hundreds of soldiers getting killed in the long run and may be thousands and thousands of civilians will be killed as of reprisal attacks inside Pakistan.

And i can assure you the Taliban will not be decimated or killed, rather they will live another day to fight, just like what we have seen in Afghanistan.

Better solution is to start monitoring the crossing points on the border and target the infiltrators with drones, set special forces ambush parties and try to kill and capture, get info from the captured ones and target their hideouts and places of living inside Afghanistan, once things start getting controlled inside Afghanistan, then we will be able to break the backbone of the militants.

Doing operation in NWA right now will be the biggest blunder of all times and the costliest.

Taimi - the intent isn't to find and kill every single one of the terrorist. The idea is to damage the infrastructure so much that they go back 15 years with both losses in 'terrorist count' and the safe houses. This infrastructure took years (if not a decade or two to be fully created) so if you destroy 75% of it and control and monitor from that point on, chances are you'll break their back. They may still have influence to control a few kilometers worth of radius in some cases but they won't be a 'force' no more

 

[TaimiKhan]

Taimi - the intent isn't to find and kill every single one of the terrorist. The idea is to damage the infrastructure so much that they go back 15 years with both losses in 'terrorist count' and the safe houses. This infrastructure took years (if not a decade or two to be fully created) so if you destroy 75% of it and control and monitor from that point on, chances are you'll break their back. They may still have influence to control a few kilometers worth of radius in some cases but they won't be a 'force' no more

Well, as i said before, if the US couldn't do that in Afghanistan in 10 years time period, why are there expectations from us. We may be able to dislodge them from their hideouts and stuff like that, but then the war of attrition starts and we get casualties on daily basis and then suicide bombs in cities and what not. In a year time period we may be loosing something close to 500 troops with hundreds more injured and may be thousands of civilians dead too.

The solution is not in our hand, its in the hands of Afghans themselves and their leadership. US/NATO can do what i said and if they become successful, then we may have a chance to launch an operation and be successful and eliminate this menace, but till then we will be the only ones who will take a hit. The militants will disperse and will regroup another day to fight. Also do remember they are the local population and that is the difficult part, to fight COIN in populated area.