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Chinese tech companies spooked about becoming 'next ZTE'

F-22Raptor

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TAIPEI -- Many Chinese tech companies are wary of becoming the next ZTE. The country's No. 2 telecom equipment provider and major smartphone maker was recently penalized by the U.S. government with a seven-year ban on buying American-made components.

The severe punishment imposed by the U.S. over ZTE's violation of a ban on selling products to Iran and North Korea could get the company in a big trouble. The company currently sources some 20-30% of its parts from American suppliers, according to Sinolink Securities, and it's not likely it will find alternatives for crucial chips and high-end optic components anytime soon.

The Chinese company could also be barred from using Android operating systems provided by Google, which run on every handset ZTE is shipping. The company suspended trading of its shares in China and Hong Kong on April 16 and postponed its earnings release.


Though some say it's an isolated case, the ZTE ban came amid tit-for-tat trade tensions between the U.S. and China, and many Chinese tech companies are starting to fret that similar restrictions could be a blow to their business, according to analysts and industry sources. It is also part of Washington's ongoing efforts to curb Beijing's ambition to quickly gain technological dominance by pouring enormous amounts of funds into building a competitive semiconductor industry.

"The U.S. wants to show China its ability to really hit its tech companies badly ... there could be more to come," said Wang Yanhui, secretary general of Mobile China Alliance, an agency affiliated with China's Ministry of Industry and Information in Beijing. "Currently, only Beijing could save ZTE with some negotiations with Washington."

According to Wang, Chinese tech companies, such as Huawei Technologies, Lenovo Group, Xiaomi, Oppo and Vivo could also be hit hard if the U.S. expands similar bans to them, as they still need to use various chips and critical components provided by U.S. vendors.

China's Ministry of Commerce responded that it hopes the U.S. will handle the situation properly in accordance with laws and policies. It said it is prepared to take necessary measures to protect the legitimate interests of Chinese companies.

On April 19, the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission released a report, naming Huawei, ZTE and Lenovo as companies that pose cyberespionage risks to the U.S. It also flagged Dell supplier Lishen Power Battery Systems and Apple supplier GoerTek, an audio component maker, for links to China's military, nuclear or cyberespionage programs. More than 10 Chinese enterprises were picked in the report.

In the near term, for mobile processors and other wireless chips, if access to the U.S. market were cut, these Chinese device makers could look to Taiwan's MediaTek and Realtek and their homegrown Unigroup Spreadtrum & RDA for quick alternatives. For memory chips, they could ask Samsung Electronics, SK Hynix, Toshiba and Nanya Technology to help fill the gaps. However, they would face large-scale product redesigns if they need to switch key suppliers.

Meanwhile, the U.S. still controls the most crucial intellectual properties, operating systems and high-end chip components needed to operate smartphones, base stations and networking equipment. For instance, it's impossible to replace core processor chips for data center servers from Intel and radio frequency components from Qorvo and Skyworks, or find quality optical parts from Lumentum elsewhere anytime soon.

Even Huawei Technologies, the world's biggest networking equipment builder and No. 3 smartphone maker, which aggressively develops its own chipset, boosts patent portfolios and localizes its supply chain, still finds it extremely difficult to eliminate U.S. components, said Andrew Lu, a longtime semiconductor analyst at Hong Kong-based Sinolink Securities.

"Take Huawei's latest Premium P20 Pro phone, for instance -- the company still uses many chips from Skyworks, Texas Instruments and Micron Technology," Lu said.

"The U.S. tech companies hold the most leading technologies in hand, which are not something the Chinese firms can easily find alternatives to or catch up in a short period of time," Yuanta Securities Investment Consulting analyst James Wei said.

Many emerging chip production projects and Chinese homegrown chip manufacturers would also be vulnerable if the U.S. were to impose bans on them.

For instance, state-backed Tsinghua Unigroup's affiliate Yangtze Memory Technologies is building a $24 billion memory chip facility in Wuhan, while Innotron Memory, another government-sponsored program, is constructing an $8 billion factory in Hefei. Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co., the country's biggest contract chipmaker, is also expanding its facility in Shanghai.

These are all part of Beijing's relentless push to slash dependence on overseas technologies, but it's not fast enough to bear fruit. These facilities rely heavily on U.S. semiconductor equipment providers such as Applied Materials, Lam Research and KLA-Tencor to go into operation.

More than 40% of capital expenditure from these Chinese companies goes to American equipment makers. Of that spending, they have no way to replace up to 30% of the components with alternatives from other parts of the world, noted Sinolink's Lu.

"If any of this kind of embargo is further imposed, that could be a serious blow to these emerging state-backed players," Lu added.

Nevertheless, the aggressive measure by the U.S. has sent a clear and strong warning to China, and could reinforce that country's determination to continue to boost local players.

Shares of many Chinese semiconductor-related companies, including state-sponsored Goodix and Gigadevice, on domestic stock exchanges surged during the week of April 16 amid reports that government bodies are discussing adding funding to the chip segment.

"It is foreseeable that China will accelerate the development of key components and its semiconductor industry in the wake of ZTE's case," said Liu Meng-chun, the head economic researcher at Taiwan's Chung-Hua Institute for Economic Research.

"ZTE will not be the only case. The U.S. could target rising Chinese tech companies like Alibaba Group Holding and Huawei to limit China's development in the global tech race," Liu said.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-Trends/Chinese-tech-companies-wary-to-become-next-ZTE
 
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LOL... You can imagine if China banned iphone and revoke licensed of foxconn right to manufacture iphone due to national security. What can happended to apple stock? Can apple shift their manufacturing supplier out of China in a day or a week or even a months time? NO

Apple stock will be worthless overnight if China take this step since apple has no product to sell. US will be hurt more. US will not dare to take further action becos this is the step China can take to deal Apple giant a blow. If Apple collapsed, it will be disaster for US economy. :enjoy:
 
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LOL... You can imagine if China banned iphone and revoke licensed of foxconn right to manufacture iphone due to national security. What can happended to apple stock? Can apple shift their manufacturing supplier out of China in a day or a week or even a months time? NO

Apple stock will be worthless overnight if China take this step since apple has no product to sell. US will be hurt more. US will not dare to take further action becos this is the step China can take to deal Apple giant a blow. If Apple collapsed, it will be disaster for US economy. :enjoy:
You know the CCP will not do this.
 
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The company currently sources some 20-30% of its parts from American suppliers, according to Sinolink Securities,

But only 10-15% of production costs.

U.S.-made components account for only 10 to 15 percent of ZTE’s production costs, estimates Nomura analyst Joel Ying.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ks-leaving-china-s-rising-tech-star-half-dead

Meanwhile, the U.S. still controls the most crucial intellectual properties, operating systems and high-end chip components needed to operate smartphones, base stations and networking equipment.

Such as...:sleep:

For instance, it's impossible to replace core processor chips for data center servers from Intel

Made in China 2025.

Under the deal, AMD said it had licensed x86 chip technology to a new venture it is forming with Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co., which will use the technology to develop chips for server systems to be sold only in China.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-license-chip-technology-to-china-chip-venture-2016-04-22

and radio frequency components from Qorvo and Skyworks,

I'm pretty sure Japanese company Murata can handle this.
https://www.murata.com/en-us/products/frontendmodule

or find quality optical parts from Lumentum elsewhere.

Made in China 2025.

Does China Optical Plan Mean Trouble For Oclaro, Lumentum, Finisar?

1/08/2018

China's government has unveiled a five-year plan for building up a domestic optical components industry, a move that could spell trouble for U.S. suppliers such as Oclaro (OCLR), Acacia Communications (ACIA), Lumentum Holding (LITE), Finisar (FNSR), and NeoPhotonics (NPTN).

https://www.investors.com/news/tech...lan-mean-trouble-for-oclaro-lumentum-finisar/
 
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LOL... You can imagine if China banned iphone and revoke licensed of foxconn right to manufacture iphone due to national security. What can happended to apple stock? Can apple shift their manufacturing supplier out of China in a day or a week or even a months time? NO

Apple stock will be worthless overnight if China take this step since apple has no product to sell. US will be hurt more. US will not dare to take further action becos this is the step China can take to deal Apple giant a blow. If Apple collapsed, it will be disaster for US economy. :enjoy:

Frankly, dude, the most hurt will be to Apple, than China, than US.
Apple manufacturer in China and employs quite a lot of people.

Apart from that, this battle is not symmetric. US still has a firm grip over components that China depends on and can't find alternatives to, while so is not the case for China.

It will be a VERY HEAVY miscalculation on your part to misjudge situation.

But only 10-15% of production costs.

U.S.-made components account for only 10 to 15 percent of ZTE’s production costs, estimates Nomura analyst Joel Ying.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ks-leaving-china-s-rising-tech-star-half-dead

Production costs are different than component costs.

Such as...

Tunable Lasers, Android ecosystem.

Made in China 2025.

Under the deal, AMD said it had licensed x86 chip technology to a new venture it is forming with Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co., which will use the technology to develop chips for server systems to be sold only in China.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-to-license-chip-technology-to-china-chip-venture-2016-04-22

And you prove my point. AMD can be stopped from such a license.

I'm pretty sure Japanese company Murata can handle this.
https://www.murata.com/en-us/products/frontendmodule

No it cannot. Qorvo etc are the best at their job, and they don't have easy replacements AFAIK. Especially when it comes to US based RF bands.

Made in China 2025.

Does China Optical Plan Mean Trouble For Oclaro, Lumentum, Finisar?

1/08/2018

China's government has unveiled a five-year plan for building up a domestic optical components industry, a move that could spell trouble for U.S. suppliers such as Oclaro (OCLR), Acacia Communications (ACIA), Lumentum Holding (LITE), Finisar (FNSR), and NeoPhotonics (NPTN).

https://www.investors.com/news/tech...lan-mean-trouble-for-oclaro-lumentum-finisar/

Will take time. Hence heed Deng Xiaoping, "hide strength, bide time" instead of going into a premature fight and find oneself heavily outmatched like @Beast is recommending.
 
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Frankly, dude, the most hurt will be to Apple, than China, than US.
Apple manufacturer in China and employs quite a lot of people.

Apart from that, this battle is not symmetric. US still has a firm grip over components that China depends on and can't find alternatives to, while so is not the case for China.

It will be a VERY HEAVY miscalculation on your part to misjudge situation.



Production costs are different than component costs.



Tunable Lasers, Android ecosystem.



And you prove my point. AMD can be stopped from such a license.



No it cannot. Qorvo etc are the best at their job, and they don't have easy replacements AFAIK. Especially when it comes to US based RF bands.



Will take time. Hence heed Deng Xiaoping, "hide strength, bide time" instead of going into a premature fight and find oneself heavily outmatched like @Beast is recommending.

since when apple manufacture in China? it's foxconn! Chinese Phone can easily fill in! while apple need to look for another manufacturing hub and it take a lot of time to build, train etc.. not to mention all component is manufacture in China!
good luck with that!

don't talked something you have no idea! it's just make you looks more stupid!
you indian always talked something you guys have no idea and talked like an expert! to be honest we Chinese always laugh with indian low IQ stupidity!
it's beyod reach!
 
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LOL... You can imagine if China banned iphone and revoke licensed of foxconn right to manufacture iphone due to national security. What can happended to apple stock? Can apple shift their manufacturing supplier out of China in a day or a week or even a months time? NO

Apple stock will be worthless overnight if China take this step since apple has no product to sell. US will be hurt more. US will not dare to take further action becos this is the step China can take to deal Apple giant a blow. If Apple collapsed, it will be disaster for US economy. :enjoy:
Bro,you are talking about one company,which dsnt sell all it's products only on china but if US restricts no Chinese phone will be sold anywhere ,may be other than China ,you can guess who's economy will be hit hard
 
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Bro,you are talking about one company,which dsnt sell all it's products only on china but if US restricts no Chinese phone will be sold anywhere ,may be other than China ,you can guess who's economy will be hit hard
here we are another non sense from indian.

China is the Biggest trading nation on this planet, not the US.
how the US push others country to do the same?
if we talked about 30-20 years ago, yeah.. they can do it.
today?
pfffftt
 
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since when apple manufacture in China? it's foxconn! Chinese Phone can easily fill in! while apple need to look for another manufacturing hub and it take a lot of time to build, train etc.. not to mention all component is manufacture in China!
good luck with that!

don't talked something you have no idea! it's just make you looks more stupid!
you indian always talked something you guys have no idea and talked like an expert! to be honest we Chinese always laugh with indian low IQ stupidity!
it's beyod reach!


My friend, you totally misjudge my competence.

  1. Yes, it is foxconn that officially employs those people, but around 80% of the iphones built are destined for export, which will no longer be so, if they are moved elsewhere. So, even if another Chinese brand comes in to fill market void, it will at maximum be able to retain only 20% of the production capacity that foxconn has for Apple.
  2. Apple, like all other manufacturers sources most of its components not from China.
  3. Let me give you a list: The top three components of a smartphone, are all foreign supplied:
    Processors are designed by Apple, and manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan.
    Display is supplied by Samsung and Japan Display from Korea and Japan respectively.
    Memory is again supplied by Samsung, SK Hynix, Toshiba, Micron, all from outside China.
  4. These three above are the most expensive ones.
  5. Apart from these:
    Image sensors are supplied by Sony, Japan.
    Some leading edge sensors by STMicro, Texas Instruments etc.
    Modems by Qcomm and Intel, fabricated outside China.
  6. The only thing that is manufactured within China or supplied by Chinese suppliers are:
    Battery
    Acoustics
    PCBA
    Metal Casings, and materials
    Assembly Services
    Testing

here we are another non sense from indian.

China is the Biggest trading nation on this planet, not the US.
how the US push others country to do the same?
if we talked about 30-20 years ago, yeah.. they can do it.
today?
pfffftt

He is not completely wrong. If Chinese suppliers lose access to top end US components, this will give advantage to other suppliers like Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. who would become more attractive in foreign markets. For example, in open market SoC vendors, there is no replacement for Qualcomm in medium and premium end chips. Mediatek is many generations behind Qualcomm in a lot of capabilities. And spreadtrum is even further back. So, for instance, for an Indian today, Xiaomi is a good match because it gives premium good features at reasonable prices. But if Xiaomi is cut off from Qualcomm, than most Indians would prefer giving a 1000 bucks more for a Qualcomm processor phone in HTC or LG rather than give that money for a Mediatek or Spreadtrum chip based phone.
 
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My friend, you totally misjudge my competence.

  1. Yes, it is foxconn that officially employs those people, but around 80% of the iphones built are destined for export, which will no longer be so, if they are moved elsewhere. So, even if another Chinese brand comes in to fill market void, it will at maximum be able to retain only 20% of the production capacity that foxconn has for Apple.
  2. Apple, like all other manufacturers sources most of its components not from China.
  3. Let me give you a list: The top three components of a smartphone, are all foreign supplied:
    Processors are designed by Apple, and manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan.
    Display is supplied by Samsung and Japan Display from Korea and Japan respectively.
    Memory is again supplied by Samsung, SK Hynix, Toshiba, Micron, all from outside China.
  4. These three above are the most expensive ones.
  5. Apart from these:
    Image sensors are supplied by Sony, Japan.
    Some leading edge sensors by STMicro, Texas Instruments etc.
    Modems by Qcomm and Intel, fabricated outside China.
  6. The only thing that is manufactured within China or supplied by Chinese suppliers are:
    Battery
    Acoustics
    PCBA
    Metal Casings, and materials
    Assembly Services
    Testing



He is not completely wrong. If Chinese suppliers lose access to top end US components, this will give advantage to other suppliers like Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. who would become more attractive in foreign markets. For example, in open market SoC vendors, there is no replacement for Qualcomm in medium and premium end chips. Mediatek is many generations behind Qualcomm in a lot of capabilities. And spreadtrum is even further back. So, for instance, for an Indian today, Xiaomi is a good match because it gives premium good features at reasonable prices. But if Xiaomi is cut off from Qualcomm, than most Indians would prefer giving a 1000 bucks more for a Qualcomm processor phone in HTC or LG rather than give that money for a Mediatek or Spreadtrum chip based phone.

pfftt indian talked about competence, if you so competence why the hell you don't build your country to become manufacturing hub like China? oh wait, you can't because it's indian.. all talk and no action :lol:
here we go again, you have no idea that all the point 3 you mention they all manufactured in China
China advantage not only have close proximity between manufacture component, we also have all the infrastructure and connectivity.
Remeber this case :
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-new-iphone-screen-2012-1/?IR=T
that kind of case is posibble only in China, if this is in the US or other country! it will take 4-6 month!

If the US playing their card, China also can banned rare earth mineral to export and in the end we will force all phone using Chinese Chip :azn:
 
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Android ecosystem.

First, Android is open source.

The Android operating system is open source, which would make a ban unlikely. Even in that case, ZTE could use Android's source code to create a modified OS.
https://www.cnet.com/news/zte-may-lose-android-licensing-from-google-report-says/

Second, Google Play app store is ALREADY banned in China. Hasn't stopped China.:lol:

Google is missing out on a growing chunk of potential revenue because its Google Play app store is barred from that market, new data from App Annie shows.

Chinese consumers spent nearly $35 billion on apps in 2017, marking a 270 percent in two years, with more aggressive growth likely ahead.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billions-in-china.html

And you prove my point. AMD can be stopped from such a license.

The technology has already been transfered when AMD was paid $293 million in 2016. You're going to stop AMD from receiving their royalty payments? THATIC manufactures the chips. AMD is fabless.
 
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It's good that US give some slap on these Chinese companies, they deserve it, I don't feel any pity for them since they're addicted to US's chips like opium instead of helping Chinese chip manufacturing industries. From now one either they support Chinese chip manufacturer or die.
 
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pfftt indian talked about competence, if you so competence why the hell you don't build your country to become manufacturing hub like China? oh wait, you can't because it's indian.. all talk and no action :lol:
here we go again, you have no idea that all the point 3 you mention they all manufactured in China
China advantage not only have close proximity between manufacture component, we also have all the infrastructure and connectivity.
Remeber this case :
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-new-iphone-screen-2012-1/?IR=T
that kind of case is posibble only in China, if this is in the US or other country! it will take 4-6 month!

If the US playing their card, China also can banned rare earth mineral to export and in the end we will force all phone using Chinese Chip :azn:

Well, I commend that Chinese people have made China into a manufacturing giant, and this does serve well for China. But how is it relevant to our discussion here? IQ is often not the thing that determines progress, but hardwork, planning, stability, and vision are.

Also, a high IQ person should reply and respond with reason, and not with a dozen logical fallacies all in one reply.

As to your response, we were talking about Apple here, and its supply chain, which as proved above doesn't rest on China as much as you claimed.

Apart from that, China does make some of these components, but not all of them:
  1. Chinese fabrication capabilities remain far behind other players. The most advanced production node in China is that by SMIC at 28 nm. TSMC is opening a plant in Nanjing at 16nm node. But this is a wholly owned factory of TSMC, and will have direct and complete Taiwanese control.
    However, TSMC in Taiwan has already started production at 7 nm node. Samsung itself is slated to begin production at single nanometer nodes.
    Chinese companies here lag by multiple generations.
  2. In memory, China has no active commercial factory as of now, barring that of Samsung in Xian. Chinese companies will enter mass production only in late 2019, that too with inferior products.
  3. In display, China fares better. But still lags behind Samsung and LG, in OLED tech and production.
  4. China has no operating system of its own and relies completely on foreigners.

It's good that US give some slap on these Chinese companies, they deserve it, I don't feel any pity for them since they're addicted to US's chips like opium instead of helping Chinese chip manufacturing industries. From now one either they support Chinese chip manufacturer or die.

Perhaps so. But China can't fight US right now. Again, the fight is not symmetric.

Maybe by 2025, when China will be in a better place.

But now, will harm China and Chinese upcoming tech sector.

First, Android is open source.

The Android operating system is open source, which would make a ban unlikely. Even in that case, ZTE could use Android's source code to create a modified OS.
https://www.cnet.com/news/zte-may-lose-android-licensing-from-google-report-says/

Second, Google Play app store is ALREADY banned in China. Hasn't stopped China.:lol:

Google is missing out on a growing chunk of potential revenue because its Google Play app store is barred from that market, new data from App Annie shows.

Chinese consumers spent nearly $35 billion on apps in 2017, marking a 270 percent in two years, with more aggressive growth likely ahead.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billions-in-china.html

My friend, it is not only about China that we are talking about. Chinese companies also operate outside China. For example, in India, it will be nearly impossible to operate without Google Apps. Chinese companies will face major issues in breaching other markets.

Also, even within China, as far as I am aware, it will be hard for the companies to keep up with the latest launches. I must admit I am not sure how this point works though.

The technology has already been transfered when AMD was paid $293 million in 2016. You're going to stop AMD from receiving their royalty payments? THATIC manufactures the chips. AMD is fabless.

For that money AMD just licensed its x86. The whole CPU however is not only about this. This is just a language to talk with the CPU. AMD has also been helping in designing independent CPUs, which will come to a standstill.
 
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