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Chinese stock market capitalization worth nearly $10 TRILLION

Beidou2020

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On Tuesday, the world's largest indexing firm, MSCI, will rule whether shares in mainland China should be included in the firm's global indexing scheme, which is used by fund managers and ETF providers the world over.

It could mean billions of dollars would come out of other emerging market countries like Brazil and South Africa and flow into mainland China.

There are three main classifications of Chinese stocks: 1) A-shares, which are mainland China stocks, 2) H-shares, which are Chinese companies that trade on the Hong Kong exchange, and 3) N-shares, Chinese companies that list on the U.S. markets.

While H-shares and N-shares are widely available to outside investors, the A-shares are not. But that is changing.

Why is this a big deal? It's simple: indexers rule the world. Many investors are increasingly investing through indices, most of which are used in the 1,600 ETFs that are traded every day in the U.S.

Adding more China stocks to indexes essentially forces investors to hold more exposure to China.

There's a larger political and economic issue at stake: China wants to become a bigger part of global trade. A key component of that is to become a bigger part of the global stock trading market.

By all accounts, China is slowly accomplishing that goal. Mainland China (the Shenzen and Shanghai exchanges) has the second-largest stock market by market capitalization, while Hong Kong is third:

Stock market capitalization by country (in trillions):
U.S. $24.8
China 9.7
Hong Kong 5.2

Japan 5.0
UK 3.8
France 2.1
Canada 2.0
Germany 1.9
Source: Bloomberg

But China has had problems getting to "the next level." The problems are twofold:

1) China itself has restricted ownership of A-shares by foreigners. However, the government has begun allowing more access to the mainland market. Last November, for example, a trading link was established between the Hong-Kong Exchange and the Shanghai Exchange that allowed foreign investors to buy mainland shares through registered broker dealers, though this, too, is subject to a quota.

2) Indexers—including MSCI and its main competitor, FTSE—have until recently considered the A-shares ineligible for inclusion in their indexes because of those restrictions and, to a lesser extent, over concern about government control of some of the largest enterprises.

The key is that MSCI must be comfortable that there are enough A- shares available to foreign investors to replicate their indices, and that may be a problem. After all, they can't reweight the indices and then discover that the people using the indices (ETFs, for example) can't buy enough stock to cover demand.

One way to deal with this issue is a gradual roll out of, say 5 percent of the listings by market weight initially, then adding more in the coming years. They could, for example, just include a few large companies initially.

One thing's for sure: there is clearly momentum to bring mainland China into the international fold.

Just a couple weeks ago, MSCI's competitor, FTSE, added China A-shares to its core benchmarks.

This is getting a bit more publicity than usual because of the enormous out-performance of China's mainland market this year.

China markets this year
Shanghai, up 58%
Shenzhen, up 112%

Those are eye-popping numbers, and we have seen much higher levels of money flowing into the few ETFs that have access to China A-shares, including the X-trackers CSI 300 A-Shares ETF (ASHR), which launched in 2013.

Let's look at the MSCI Emerging Markets Index, which is the index used for the largest emerging market ETF, the iShares Emerging Market ETF (EEM).

There's over $1.5 trillion indexed to this alone.

Right now, about 23 percent is pegged to China, all represented by stocks that are listed in Hong Kong.

MSCI Emerging Markets Index (weighting):
China 23%

South Korea 14%
Taiwan 13%
South Africa 7%
India 7%
Brazil 5%
Mexico 5%
Russia 4%
Other 20%

However, the market for mainland China stocks is far larger than Hong Kong--adding even modest amounts of mainland shares could push China's percentage over 30 percent. Some estimate that if China was fully weighted in the index, it could represent 60 percent of the entire EEM!

Which would probably be fine with China.

The next step would be to include more of China in broader, global indices. For example, the MSCI All Countries World Index has a minuscule weighting to China:

MSCI All Countries World Index (weighting):
U.S. 50%
Japan 8%
UK 6%
Germany 3%
China 2%
Source: ETFdb.com

Note the disparity: the U.S. has 50 percent of the weighting, and China has only 2 percent, despite the fact that China is roughly 15 percent of global GDP.

One final point: China is also set to announce an additional Shenzhen-Hong Kong stock link to complement the existing Shanghai-Hong Kong link. If that happens, it will make it even easier to own mainland China shares, and MSCI could accelerate the integration of China into the global markets.

Get ready to own more of China!
 
Certainly not in this list.

Stock market capitalization by country (in trillions):
U.S. $24.8
China 9.7
Hong Kong 5.2

Japan 5.0
UK 3.8
France 2.1
Canada 2.0
Germany 1.9
Source: Bloomberg

Yes the $10 trillion market cap does make a headline, but China's stock markets are far from being developed, in fact it's probably one of the most over-regulated, one of the least open market of all. To compete with New-lon-kong, Shanghai-Shenzhen still has a long way to go.

However as closer ties are made with HKSE, internationalization of RMB, and most importantly government's determination to make fundamental reforms in market structure, the stock markets are expected to grow rapidly.
 
Yes the $10 trillion market cap does make a headline, but China's stock markets are far from being developed, in fact it's probably lone of the most over-regulated, one of the least open market of all. However as closer ties are made with HKSE, internationalization of RMB, and most importantly government's determination to make fundamental reforms in market structure, the stock markets are expected to grow rapidly.

Just one thing:

Chinese stocks are right now literally in bubble territory. With some stocks having a P/E ratio of as much as 150!
 
Yes the $10 trillion market cap does make a headline, but China's stock markets are far from being developed, in fact it's probably lone of the most over-regulated, one of the least open market of all. However as closer ties are made with HKSE, internationalization of RMB, and most importantly government's determination to make fundamental reforms in market structure, the stock markets are expected to grow rapidly.

I agree its still highly regulated and not open to the outside world due to capital controls but that is changing.

Chinese market should be even bigger than it is now.

West is saying it is a bubble but this rally is fully backed by the CPC which means any fool that tries to short it will be destroyed. Short sellers will lose before the market falls.

There is a saying don't bet against the Federal Reserve.

Don't bet against the CPC.
 
Just one thing:

Chinese stocks are right now literally in bubble territory. With some stocks having a P/E ratio of as much as 150!

P/E is just one valuation indicator, there are many others (P/B, growth story, monopolistic position, category leadership, strategic value, ...), as long as the market is effective, it's bet between greedy buyers and sellers, risk is the name of the game. Prevailing valuation of individual stocks isn't central to the question, it's about fundamental structure the market, is it fully market oriented, is it fair and sound. Reforms are required, a lot of them, from microscopic stock market structure to macroscopic monetary policies and legal environment.
 
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P/E is just one valuation indicator, there are many others (P/B, growth story, monopolistic position, category leadership, strategic value, ...), as long as the market is effective, it's bet between buyers and sellers, risk is the name of the game. Prevailing valuation of individual stocks isn't central to the question, it's about fundamental structure the market, is it fully market oriented, is it fair and sound. Reforms are required, a lot of them, from microscopic stock market structure to macroscopic monetary policies and legal environment.

The issue is that the market is dominated by retail investors, who are by definition not sophisticated. Right now, I agree, China needs a strong Securities Regulator, and strong corporate transparency rules.

But, how ever much you tell it to retail investors, when they will actually lose money, they will go mad. Not only that, you also don't want the stock market to come crashing down, right?

Also, While P/E is only one indicator, it is among the best indicators. Others, are very case specific. I will say, that by now, it is beyond doubt that China's markets are frothy, and many stocks are overvalued. Just see the new trend in which Chinese companies are trying to delist abroad, and come to China, for they are able to raise far more money.
 
P/E is just one valuation indicator, there are many others (P/B, growth story, monopolistic position, category leadership, strategic value, ...), as long as the market is effective, it's bet between buyers and sellers, risk is the name of the game. Prevailing valuation of individual stocks isn't central to the question, it's about fundamental structure the market, is it fully market oriented, is it fair and sound.
Average Shanghai P/E ratio is 24.7. It is entering overbought territory, so how much higher will it go?
 
Certainly not in this list.

Stock market capitalization by country (in trillions):
U.S. $24.8
China 9.7
Hong Kong 5.2

Japan 5.0
UK 3.8
France 2.1
Canada 2.0
Germany 1.9
Source: Bloomberg

The prosperity of capital market is the reflection of real economy. They can say China GDP is fake, but other indicators never tell lies.
 
India is good at percentage manipulation

10% of a $1 worth 0.10c whereas 10% of a $1000 worth hell more. what say you?
 
The issue is that the market is dominated by retail investors, who are by definition not sophisticated. Right now, I agree, China needs a strong Securities Regulator, and strong corporate transparency rules.

But, how ever much you tell it to retail investors, when they will actually lose money, they will go mad. Not only that, you also don't want the stock market to come crashing down, right?

Also, While P/E is only one indicator, it is among the best indicators. Others, are very case specific. I will say, that by now, it is beyond doubt that China's markets are frothy, and many stocks are overvalued. Just see the new trend in which Chinese companies are trying to delist abroad, and come to China, for they are able to raise far more money.

I am talking about market reform, and you are talking about winning or loosing? OK let's do it then. Check P/E for Amazon and General Motors (hint: none). Check Whatsapp P/E when bought by FB (hint: again none). Check for asset-heavy business do they use P/E or P/B. Well you go sell your prospectus using P/E as the only indicator and try make a fortune, good luck with that, count me out. I only follow one golden rule: Buy Low Sell High (or Sell High Buy Low, just a matter of sequencing). Why you assume that I don't want a crash? That depends on my current position, which you don't know, right? Not matter what market always crash, it's nature, that's the risk, don't bet short-term if can't afford the loss.

About reform, you are wrong, China doesn't lack strong regulator, it has one all-divine regulator that's distorting the market, which is effectively a department of it. And what's that "corporate transparency rules" you are talking about?

Average Shanghai P/E ratio is 24.7. It is entering overbought territory, so how much higher will it go?

You are not my client hence sorry honestly I don't know bro. Only sincere advice to bro
(1) Don't trust any BS analysts, work in tangent with market movers
(2) Don't bet everything if can't take the loss, balance your portfolio according to your need
(3) Check both macroscopic environment and micro-economics of your target industry/company, invest in long term fundamentals
 
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I am talking about market reform, and you are talking about winning or loosing? OK let's do it then. Check P/E for Amazon and General Motors (hint: none). Check Whatsapp P/E when bought by FB (hint: again none). Check for asset-heavy business do they use P/E or P/B. Well you go sell your prospectus using P/E as the only indicator and try make a fortune, good luck with that, count me out. I only follow one golden rule: Buy Low Sell High (or Sell High Buy Low, just a matter of sequencing). Why you assume that I don't want a crash? That depends on my current position, which you don't know, right? Not matter what market always crash, it's nature, that's the risk, don't bet short-term if can't afford the loss.

About reform, you are wrong, China doesn't lack strong regulator, it has one all-divine regulator that's distorting the market, which is effectively a department of it. And what's that "corporate transparency rules" you are talking about?

Of course you may want it to fall if you are short. But I am not sure the retail investors understand that. They would just buy the stocks, and hope for it to gain money, as they have heard their neighbors doing.

Also, Chinese corporations had massive outstanding loans, and some speculate that this stock frenzy is just a way to plug in money to the companies, essentially converting debt into equity.
 
Of course you may want it to fall if you are short. But I am not sure the retail investors understand that. They would just buy the stocks, and hope for it to gain money, as they have heard their neighbors doing.

Also, Chinese corporations had massive outstanding loans, and some speculate that this stock frenzy is just a way to plug in money to the companies, essentially converting debt into equity.

Gambling on their own, none of other people's business. People have the right to stay conservative, or aggressive, or even stupid, it's their choice. If people need lessons to get matured, so be it. The role of government isn't about saving the stupid, protecting the greedy, but only to promote fairness, to uphold justice.

Massive loans? I wish the companies I have invested have higher leverages but the fact is that unless they are SOE they don't due to the crazily-regulated banking/financing sector in China. From listco's POV, sure it's great time to issue new shares. What debt-equity conversion you are talking about? CB's? There is no conversion otherwise. Whatever you are talking about, yes, a lower debt-equity ratio is expected.
 
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The prosperity of capital market is the reflection of real economy. They can say China GDP is fake, but other indicators never tell lies.

Chinese stock market is bigger than Germany, France, UK and Canada combined.

Chinese stock market is now TWICE the size of Japan just like China is TWICE the size of the Japanese economy.
 

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