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China's Second New Stealth Development

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Windjammer

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American intelligence agencies recently obtained new information on China’s second new stealth fighter-bomber revealed on the Internet in the past two years, according to U.S. officials.

The new jet, dubbed the F-60, is a fifth-generation warplane; a prototype was disclosed in photographs posted on two Chinese military affairs websites beginning June 21.

Officials familiar with intelligence reports said the shape and design of the F-60 appears similar to the U.S. Air Force’s F-22 Raptor, the U.S. military’s most advanced stealth fighter, although it is smaller in size.

The similarities are raising concerns in counterintelligence circles that China obtained design details for its new jet from the F-22 through espionage or cyber-spying, as occurred with the Chinese compromise of F-35 data by suspected intelligence hackers several years ago.

A Defense Intelligence Agency spokeswoman declined to comment on the new Chinese stealth jet.

According to the U.S. officials, intelligence analysts recently conducted detailed analyses of photos that show the first prototype of the new jet being transported on the back of a flatbed truck along the Beijing-Shenyang highway under escort by vehicles and officials of the Ministry of State Security, China’s political police and intelligence service.

F-60-2-425x330.jpg

Chinese Internet photo showing what U.S. intelligence agencies believe is a new Chinese stealth fighter enroute to a stress testing facility.

The new jet was shown at a rest stop during its transport during what Chinese websites said was transfer to a stress testing facility.

The twin-engine jet was shown without its tail stabilizers or cockpit canopy, leading some analysts to conclude it was an L-15 trainer aircraft.

However, analysis of the photos revealed that the new jet is larger in size and has different wing shapes and engine intakes than the trainer, and therefore is likely the new F-60.

The photos and commentary were posted on Tiexue (¾üÊÂ-Öйú¾üÊÂ-¾üÊÂÐÂÎÅ-ÌúѪÍø - Ô*´´µÚÒ»¾üÊÂÃÅ»§), a military website in Beijing that reports on People’s Liberation Army developments; and Feiyang Junshi, (·ÉÑï¾üÊÂ), another military website based in Yancheng City, Jiangsu Province.

No mention was made of the F-60 in recent unclassified Pentagon annual reports to Congress on China’s military.

The 2011 report stated that development of the J-20 stealth jet and long-range conventional missiles “could improve the PLA’s ability to strike regional air bases, logistical facilities, and other ground-based infrastructure.”

The F-60 jet is under development by the Shenyang Aircraft Corp., which analysts say lost out several years ago to the manufacturer of China’s first stealth fighter, the J-20, which is being built by the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute.

The J-20 was first shown in a test flight during the visit to China in January 2011 by then-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in what was widely viewed as anti-U.S. political posturing by China’s communist government and military.

Gates had canceled production of the Air Force’s F-22 months earlier claiming that large numbers of F-22s were not needed because China would not field a comparable jet until 2020.

It now appears that China will have two new fifth-generation stealth fighters capable of challenging the U.S. Air Force in Asia years before the U.S. intelligence estimate of 2020.

The Pentagon considers stealth jet fighters key “anti-access, area denial” forces that China is developing as part of a strategy of forcing the U.S. military to operate further from Chinese shores.

The arms have prompted a new Pentagon doctrine called the Air Sea Battle Concept that calls for new U.S. forces and upgraded alliances in Asia to better assist U.S. forces in coming to the aid of democratic friends and allies in any future conflicts in the region.

Other high-tech forces being built by China for use against the United States include anti-ship ballistic missiles; anti-satellite missiles and lasers; large numbers of submarines; cyber warfare capabilities; and anti-missile defenses.

Some U.S. intelligence analysts are viewing the disclosure of the F-60 as an official leak by the Chinese military. Evidence for that view was one photo of the jet that shows an Audi A6 parked next to the truck transporting it. The parked Audi appears designed to provide foreign or domestic observers with a vehicle of known dimensions that will allow analysts to make calculations on the size and shape of the new jet.

China in the past has revealed new military developments on the Internet through similar official leaks. For example, China’s new Yuan-class attack submarine was built entirely in secret until photos of the submarine appeared on the Internet in 2004.

Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. David Deptula, a former deputy chief of staff for intelligence, said the disclosure of the new Chinese stealth jet “should not come as a surprise.”

“The PLA [air force] has a very comprehensive planning process, and may have several advanced aircraft in various stages of design and development,” Deptula told the Free Beacon.

Larry Wortzel, a former Army intelligence officer, said it would be difficult to determine if the Chinese obtained secrets on the F-22 for the new jet.

“We know the F-35 had a major cyber penetration,” Wortzel told the Free Beacon. “But even without a penetration, there have been enough opportunities to see F-22s to assist a manufacturer in trying to copy the external design. Xian and Shenyang were working parallel programs for stealth fighter aircraft.”

Richard Fisher, a specialist on China’s military program, said in addition to the rest stop photos, later pictures showed the new jet at a People’s Liberation Army Air Force test center near the city of Xian.

F-60-3-425x257.jpg

A mock up of China's second advanced stealth jet fighter the F-60.

“The F-60 has been reported by Chinese sources as a possible ‘private’ program that it hopes it can sell to the PLA later,” Fisher said in an interview.

“This has happened numerous times before, as in the case of the Hongdu K-8 trainer. What we see on the truck could also be a full-scale model headed for a wind tunnel, electronic or stress testing facility. We do not know yet if a flying prototype has been built.”

However, Fisher said image analysis shows the new jet to be a possible smaller fifth-generation fighter that could be promoted by Shenyang as a lower cost fighter than the Chengdu J-20.

“It is just slightly longer than the F-35, has twin engines but clearly uses stealth shaping as would a fifth-gen fighter,” Fisher said. “It may also employ internal weapon carriage and most likely has a modern [active electronically scanned array] radar. If this is a real program, it will also be developed into a carrier capable version. The size and twin-engine configuration is correct for usage on China’s carriers.”

China is currently conducting sea trials for its first aircraft carrier, the Soviet-era Varyag, and U.S. intelligence officials have said two additional carriers are under construction at a shipyard near Shanghai.

“The bottom line here is that as Washington can’t figure out whether it can afford just one fifth-gen fighter program, China may be pursuing up to three or more,” Fisher said.

The Chinese fighter buildup comes as the Navy is having second thoughts about purchasing large numbers of the naval version of the F-35, which was designated the mainstay future U.S. fighter jet after Gates killed off the F-22.

“When fighter programs start this kind of dive before production and deployment, the ending is usually bad,” Fisher said. “If the Shenyang fighter program is real, this only serves to compound the disaster of having ended F-22 production, which has to rank as one of the most shortsighted and dangerous acts of U.S. unilateral disarmament since the end of the Cold War.”

If the Navy cuts its plans to buy large numbers of F-35Cs and rely more on jets from the Air Force, there are concerns that the Air Force with about 120 F-22 will not be able to do the job, Fisher said.

The second new Chinese stealth fighter development further undermines the decision made by Gates in 2009 to limit production of the F-22 to 187 aircraft and to instead produce several thousand F-35s.

Gates said on July 16, 2009 that by 2020 the United States would have 1,100 fifth generation F-35s and F-22s, but that China was projected to have none, and that the gap of U.S. to Chinese advanced fighters would widen by 2025 with 1,700 advanced U.S. jets to Beijing’s “handful” of jets capable of penetrating strongly defended airspace and the ability to fly long distances.

Fisher said in response to Gates’ 2009 assessment: “With delays being compounded by further cutbacks and production reductions, it does not seem possible that the United States will have 1,700 fifth-generation fighters in 2025 while the Chinese may only have a handful.”

“The Chinese may have two hundred to several hundred by 2035, which in their neighborhood will go far to deter the United States,” he said.

To meet the Chinese jet fighter imbalance, “it is imperative that we revive production of an improved version of the F-22,” Fisher said. “Otherwise we condemn ourselves to either a slow retreat from Asia or a ‘Pearl Harbor’ that will be delivered by China.”

The Pentagon’s 2011 report on China’s military said, “In January 2011, initial images of China’s fifth generation J-20 stealth fighter were posted on the Internet.”

“Although the appearance of this prototype underscores the level of PRC investment in advanced defense systems, the Defense Department does not expect the J-20 to achieve an effective operational capability prior to 2018,” the report said. “China faces several hurdles as it moves toward J-20 production, including the mastery of high-performance jet engine production.”

The report also said “the J-20 will eventually give the PLA Air Force a platform capable of long range, penetrating strikes into complex air defense environments.”

Beijing
 
f-60-540x414.jpg


American intelligence agencies recently obtained new information on China’s second new stealth fighter-bomber revealed on the Internet in the past two years, according to U.S. officials.

The new jet, dubbed the F-60, is a fifth-generation warplane; a prototype was disclosed in photographs posted on two Chinese military affairs websites beginning June 21.

Officials familiar with intelligence reports said the shape and design of the F-60 appears similar to the U.S. Air Force’s F-22 Raptor, the U.S. military’s most advanced stealth fighter, although it is smaller in size.

The similarities are raising concerns in counterintelligence circles that China obtained design details for its new jet from the F-22 through espionage or cyber-spying, as occurred with the Chinese compromise of F-35 data by suspected intelligence hackers several years ago.

A Defense Intelligence Agency spokeswoman declined to comment on the new Chinese stealth jet.

According to the U.S. officials, intelligence analysts recently conducted detailed analyses of photos that show the first prototype of the new jet being transported on the back of a flatbed truck along the Beijing-Shenyang highway under escort by vehicles and officials of the Ministry of State Security, China’s political police and intelligence service.

F-60-2-425x330.jpg

Chinese Internet photo showing what U.S. intelligence agencies believe is a new Chinese stealth fighter enroute to a stress testing facility.

The new jet was shown at a rest stop during its transport during what Chinese websites said was transfer to a stress testing facility.

The twin-engine jet was shown without its tail stabilizers or cockpit canopy, leading some analysts to conclude it was an L-15 trainer aircraft.

However, analysis of the photos revealed that the new jet is larger in size and has different wing shapes and engine intakes than the trainer, and therefore is likely the new F-60.

The photos and commentary were posted on Tiexue (¾üÊÂ-Öйú¾üÊÂ-¾üÊÂÐÂÎÅ-ÌúѪÍø - Ô*´´µÚÒ»¾üÊÂÃÅ»§), a military website in Beijing that reports on People’s Liberation Army developments; and Feiyang Junshi, (·ÉÑï¾üÊÂ), another military website based in Yancheng City, Jiangsu Province.

No mention was made of the F-60 in recent unclassified Pentagon annual reports to Congress on China’s military.

The 2011 report stated that development of the J-20 stealth jet and long-range conventional missiles “could improve the PLA’s ability to strike regional air bases, logistical facilities, and other ground-based infrastructure.”

The F-60 jet is under development by the Shenyang Aircraft Corp., which analysts say lost out several years ago to the manufacturer of China’s first stealth fighter, the J-20, which is being built by the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute.

The J-20 was first shown in a test flight during the visit to China in January 2011 by then-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in what was widely viewed as anti-U.S. political posturing by China’s communist government and military.

Gates had canceled production of the Air Force’s F-22 months earlier claiming that large numbers of F-22s were not needed because China would not field a comparable jet until 2020.

It now appears that China will have two new fifth-generation stealth fighters capable of challenging the U.S. Air Force in Asia years before the U.S. intelligence estimate of 2020.

The Pentagon considers stealth jet fighters key “anti-access, area denial” forces that China is developing as part of a strategy of forcing the U.S. military to operate further from Chinese shores.

The arms have prompted a new Pentagon doctrine called the Air Sea Battle Concept that calls for new U.S. forces and upgraded alliances in Asia to better assist U.S. forces in coming to the aid of democratic friends and allies in any future conflicts in the region.

Other high-tech forces being built by China for use against the United States include anti-ship ballistic missiles; anti-satellite missiles and lasers; large numbers of submarines; cyber warfare capabilities; and anti-missile defenses.

Some U.S. intelligence analysts are viewing the disclosure of the F-60 as an official leak by the Chinese military. Evidence for that view was one photo of the jet that shows an Audi A6 parked next to the truck transporting it. The parked Audi appears designed to provide foreign or domestic observers with a vehicle of known dimensions that will allow analysts to make calculations on the size and shape of the new jet.

China in the past has revealed new military developments on the Internet through similar official leaks. For example, China’s new Yuan-class attack submarine was built entirely in secret until photos of the submarine appeared on the Internet in 2004.

Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. David Deptula, a former deputy chief of staff for intelligence, said the disclosure of the new Chinese stealth jet “should not come as a surprise.”

“The PLA [air force] has a very comprehensive planning process, and may have several advanced aircraft in various stages of design and development,” Deptula told the Free Beacon.

Larry Wortzel, a former Army intelligence officer, said it would be difficult to determine if the Chinese obtained secrets on the F-22 for the new jet.

“We know the F-35 had a major cyber penetration,” Wortzel told the Free Beacon. “But even without a penetration, there have been enough opportunities to see F-22s to assist a manufacturer in trying to copy the external design. Xian and Shenyang were working parallel programs for stealth fighter aircraft.”

Richard Fisher, a specialist on China’s military program, said in addition to the rest stop photos, later pictures showed the new jet at a People’s Liberation Army Air Force test center near the city of Xian.

F-60-3-425x257.jpg

A mock up of China's second advanced stealth jet fighter the F-60.

“The F-60 has been reported by Chinese sources as a possible ‘private’ program that it hopes it can sell to the PLA later,” Fisher said in an interview.

“This has happened numerous times before, as in the case of the Hongdu K-8 trainer. What we see on the truck could also be a full-scale model headed for a wind tunnel, electronic or stress testing facility. We do not know yet if a flying prototype has been built.”

However, Fisher said image analysis shows the new jet to be a possible smaller fifth-generation fighter that could be promoted by Shenyang as a lower cost fighter than the Chengdu J-20.

“It is just slightly longer than the F-35, has twin engines but clearly uses stealth shaping as would a fifth-gen fighter,” Fisher said. “It may also employ internal weapon carriage and most likely has a modern [active electronically scanned array] radar. If this is a real program, it will also be developed into a carrier capable version. The size and twin-engine configuration is correct for usage on China’s carriers.”

China is currently conducting sea trials for its first aircraft carrier, the Soviet-era Varyag, and U.S. intelligence officials have said two additional carriers are under construction at a shipyard near Shanghai.

“The bottom line here is that as Washington can’t figure out whether it can afford just one fifth-gen fighter program, China may be pursuing up to three or more,” Fisher said.

The Chinese fighter buildup comes as the Navy is having second thoughts about purchasing large numbers of the naval version of the F-35, which was designated the mainstay future U.S. fighter jet after Gates killed off the F-22.

“When fighter programs start this kind of dive before production and deployment, the ending is usually bad,” Fisher said. “If the Shenyang fighter program is real, this only serves to compound the disaster of having ended F-22 production, which has to rank as one of the most shortsighted and dangerous acts of U.S. unilateral disarmament since the end of the Cold War.”

If the Navy cuts its plans to buy large numbers of F-35Cs and rely more on jets from the Air Force, there are concerns that the Air Force with about 120 F-22 will not be able to do the job, Fisher said.

The second new Chinese stealth fighter development further undermines the decision made by Gates in 2009 to limit production of the F-22 to 187 aircraft and to instead produce several thousand F-35s.

Gates said on July 16, 2009 that by 2020 the United States would have 1,100 fifth generation F-35s and F-22s, but that China was projected to have none, and that the gap of U.S. to Chinese advanced fighters would widen by 2025 with 1,700 advanced U.S. jets to Beijing’s “handful” of jets capable of penetrating strongly defended airspace and the ability to fly long distances.

Fisher said in response to Gates’ 2009 assessment: “With delays being compounded by further cutbacks and production reductions, it does not seem possible that the United States will have 1,700 fifth-generation fighters in 2025 while the Chinese may only have a handful.”

“The Chinese may have two hundred to several hundred by 2035, which in their neighborhood will go far to deter the United States,” he said.

To meet the Chinese jet fighter imbalance, “it is imperative that we revive production of an improved version of the F-22,” Fisher said. “Otherwise we condemn ourselves to either a slow retreat from Asia or a ‘Pearl Harbor’ that will be delivered by China.”

The Pentagon’s 2011 report on China’s military said, “In January 2011, initial images of China’s fifth generation J-20 stealth fighter were posted on the Internet.”

“Although the appearance of this prototype underscores the level of PRC investment in advanced defense systems, the Defense Department does not expect the J-20 to achieve an effective operational capability prior to 2018,” the report said. “China faces several hurdles as it moves toward J-20 production, including the mastery of high-performance jet engine production.”

The report also said “the J-20 will eventually give the PLA Air Force a platform capable of long range, penetrating strikes into complex air defense environments.”

Beijing





Good Morning Sir... Welcome..:pdf:

:china:
 
The article gives zero insight into 'how capable' F-60 maybe because it has been written for the specific purpose of scaremongering to get defense contracts by fooling American taxpayers into an idea of 'another pearl harbour' done by the 'evil communist red rats' :rolleyes:
 
The article gives zero insight into 'how capable' F-60 maybe because it has been written for the specific purpose of scaremongering to get defense contracts by fooling American taxpayers into an idea of 'another pearl harbour' done by the 'evil communist red rats' :rolleyes:

First they were confusing it with the L-15 trainer, then they were assuming China wouldn't be able to field any stealth technology until 2020, now they are fearing it may have two by then....come 2020, and who knows what else might be out there.
 
The article gives zero insight into 'how capable' F-60 maybe because it has been written for the specific purpose of scaremongering to get defense contracts by fooling American taxpayers into an idea of 'another pearl harbour' done by the 'evil communist red rats' :rolleyes:

In other words China is playing right into defense companies hands.
 
In other words China is playing right into defense companies hands.

I don't think China's military technological development is related at all to politics in the United States. In other words, they don't care.

China will push its military technology as far and as fast as possible.

China reminds me of the United States during its earlier boom years.

The Chinese economy is booming. The Chinese defense budget keeps growing by double digits every year. They are in a virtuous cycle of ever increasing resources and technological expertise.
 
In other words China is playing right into defense companies hands.

China , is the new 'bougeyman' an imagined enemy which can be made a victim of scaremongering campaign to keep Americans worrying about an imagined enemy so that they keep paying taxes for keeping MIC in business even when they have more unemployed people than the total population of Belgium.
 
F-35 needs to start over

The Chinese F-60 mini-Raptor has a far superior stealth design than the F-35. This is merely a statement of fact. We will know for sure when we see the F-60 unwrapped.

To be competitive, the United States should scrap the F-35 and start with a clean larger design. The Pentagon crammed too much additional equipment for different missions into the F-35.

Instead of the original clean F-35 design, the current F-35 looks like it has cancer with warts, lumps, and bumps all over its airframe. All of these protrusions have lead to a less stealthy F-35.

The F-35 will be at a disadvantage against the F-60 in stealth, especially underside stealth.

8V6Sq.png

China's SAC (Shenyang Aircraft Corporation) F-60
 
^^^^^^^^^^ martian for god sake please think like human............ why you are posting such nasty fantasy posts... with out any technological concept.....
 
^^^^^^^^^^ martian for god sake please think like human............ why you are posting such nasty fantasy posts... with out any technological concept.....

I don't feel like reposting Australia Air Power's evaluation of the F-35.

Also, I've previously covered the add-on cannon above the F-35 left airduct and the mess along the underside to enlarge the weapon bay to accommodate air-to-air missiles. I have no intention of rehashing my arguments. Everyone should have read them by now.
 
I don't feel like reposting Australia Air Power's evaluation of the F-35.
Opinions. Not evaluation.

Also, I've previously covered the add-on cannon above the F-35 left airduct and the mess along the underside to enlarge the weapon bay to accommodate air-to-air missiles. I have no intention of rehashing my arguments. Everyone should have read them by now.
That is fine because we have no problems debunking them all over again.

F-35 needs to start over

The Chinese F-60 mini-Raptor has a far superior stealth design than the F-35. This is merely a statement of fact. We will know for sure when we see the F-60 unwrapped.
It is a baseless statement.

To be competitive, the United States should scrap the F-35 and start with a clean larger design. The Pentagon crammed too much additional equipment for different missions into the F-35.

Instead of the original clean F-35 design, the current F-35 looks like it has cancer with warts, lumps, and bumps all over its airframe. All of these protrusions have lead to a less stealthy F-35.

The F-35 will be at a disadvantage against the F-60 in stealth, especially underside stealth.

China's SAC (Shenyang Aircraft Corporation) F-60
The F-35 will sack this SAC. And that is a statement of fact.
 
The article gives zero insight into 'how capable' F-60 maybe because it has been written for the specific purpose of scaremongering to get defense contracts by fooling American taxpayers into an idea of 'another pearl harbour' done by the 'evil communist red rats' :rolleyes:
It is speculative to one extreme. The other extreme would be derisive. The real insights would lie somewhere in the middle and yes, this article have no such.

Assume that this aircraft is a genuine '5th gen' development, my take is that its small size make it more suitable against immediate neighbors such as Japan and South Korea, both regional military powers that have the technological support of the US. China have no aircraft carriers, so that leave the launching of this aircraft from land bases, unable to outflank these two island countries. Yes, South Korea is effectively an island country.

China , is the new 'bougeyman' an imagined enemy which can be made a victim of scaremongering campaign to keep Americans worrying about an imagined enemy so that they keep paying taxes for keeping MIC in business even when they have more unemployed people than the total population of Belgium.
So you mean the US is a real enemy to China? Real enough to keep China's MIC in business for a long time?
 
F-35 needs to start over

The Chinese F-60 mini-Raptor has a far superior stealth design than the F-35. This is merely a statement of fact. We will know for sure when we see the F-60 unwrapped.

To be competitive, the United States should scrap the F-35 and start with a clean larger design. The Pentagon crammed too much additional equipment for different missions into the F-35.

Instead of the original clean F-35 design, the current F-35 looks like it has cancer with warts, lumps, and bumps all over its airframe. All of these protrusions have lead to a less stealthy F-35.

The F-35 will be at a disadvantage against the F-60 in stealth, especially underside stealth.

8V6Sq.png

China's SAC (Shenyang Aircraft Corporation) F-60

Wow and you figured all that out by looking at an aircraft covered with a tarp being transported?

amazing!
 
Wow and you figured all that out by looking at an aircraft covered with a tarp being transported?

amazing!
Am telling ya...We stand no chance against 'Chinese physics'. It is genetically ingrained into every Chinese.
 
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