China’s leaders must learn from Soviet Union’s fatal mistakes, Hu Deping

[Möbius Curve]

• Hu Deping, son of late party General Secretary Hu Yaobang – whose 1989 death ultimately led to the Tiananmen Square crackdown - says China must stick to reform
• Speech to seminar on reform and opening up warns China to avoid Soviet errors such as centralising power and rigid planned economy

UPDATED : Thursday, 17 January, 2019, 3:51pm

An influential member of the liberal camp of the Chinese Communist Party warned the leadership in a seminar on Wednesday to learn from the mistakes of the former Soviet Union amid the current confrontation between China and the US.

“One of the fatal errors [made by the Soviets] is that they followed a political system with highly centralised power. Not every socialist country does that,” said Hu Deping, son of the late reformist General Secretary Hu Yaobang, whose death ultimately led to the infamous Tiananmen Square crackdown.

“Another [mistake] was their rigid economic system. By the same token, not all socialist countries must practise a planned economy,” he said.

Hu’s speech came as party elites are expected to convene a high level meeting to discuss the direction of policy ahead of the annual parliamentary sessions in March.

It was also delivered against a backdrop of sluggish economic growth and at a time when Beijing finds itself at loggerheads with Washington on a wide range of issues ranging from trade and technology to geopolitics.

Hu, 76, was a member of the Standing Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, an advisory body, until 2013 and is a strong supporter of the private sector and market reform.

The death of his father, another leading liberal figure, in 1989 prompted mass student demonstrations that eventually culminated in the Tiananmen Square crackdown.

His speech on Wednesday was delivered to a seminar in Beijing hosted by the Hongfan Institute of Legal and Economic Studies, a liberal private think tank made up of former economic and policy advisers and academics.

The event, held to mark the 40th anniversary of China’s reform and opening up, was attended by a couple of dozen former officials and intellectuals.

Hu’s speech was billed as being on the topic of the private sector and reform, but he used the occasion to discuss the collapse of the Soviet Union and how China could avoid making the same mistakes.

“The history of the 20th century proved that capitalist countries successfully boosted their economic growth by relying on technological advancement and improved efficiency instead of an investment-driven growth model,” he said.

“On the contrary, the Soviet Union went down a road that led to a dead end.”

China’s current trade war with the US has prompted warnings from many observers that it could drag down the world economy and cost both countries dearly.

Hu warned that China must not backtrack on the reform process.

“We must fully understand the direction and specific targets of our reforms, and never walk backwards,” Hu said.

“We must learn the lessons from the Soviet Union and press on firmly with our [reforms] to the end.”

Hu did not give a list of the critical reforms that he had in mind, but in response to a question from the audience said China should “actively explore political reforms” without elaborating further.

Hu also lamented the damage that the collapse of the Soviet Union had done to the Russian people.

“The current gross domestic product of Russia is even less than that of Guangdong province,” he said.

“It makes people feel really sorry that our big brother [the USSR] has fallen into such a condition.”

Last month a high-profile celebration to mark the 40th anniversary of the reform and opening up process saw President Xi Jinping stressing the importance of continuing reform – but only under the party’s leadership.

“For those that ought to be changed or can be changed, we will change; but for those that shouldn’t be changed or cannot be changed, we will firmly not change,” Xi said.

“Every step in reform and opening up will not be easy, and we will face all kinds of risks and challenges in the future and we may even encounter unimaginable terrifying tidal waves and horrifying storms,” he continued.

“Only by improving the party’s leadership and governance … can we ensure the ship of reform and opening up will sail forward.”

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/pol...-must-learn-soviet-unions-fatal-mistakes-says

 

[Beast]

His words are highly contradicting.

First, Soviet union collapsed becos leadership is unmoved their communist system and loses direction. They believe by suddenly losen the grip on all political system and embrace democracy will be the right move. It was the worst decision by Russian as Russia enter the dark period of Yeltsin leadership. Democracy did not save Russia but instead decay all areas of proud soviet history. That is how putin came to power to stop the decay of Russia.

China succceed becos of leadership clear direction of centralised power, liberated the market but not the political system. Centralised power ensure things can carried out smoothly with great efficiency. Leadership are clear minded of what they want to achieved. All department and country follow the same direction. Result is world second largest economy of USD 14 trillion in just 40 years of development with free market.

 

[JSCh]

I find it ironic that Hu Deping who has been the consistent champion of liberal/western democratic political reform and privatization for the last few decades said this warning about Soviet mistake. Notice he never said anything about Gorbachev mistake, only Soviet or communism mistake.

It is precisely because Chinese gov't had learnt from Soviet and Russia mistake that nobody listen to him.

 

[Beast]

I find it ironic that Hu Deping who has been the consistent champion of liberal/western democratic political reform and privatization for the last few decades said this warning about Soviet mistake. Notice he never said anything about Gorbachev mistake, only Soviet or communism mistake.

It is precisely because Chinese gov't had learnt from Soviet and Russia mistake that nobody listen to him.

Gorbachev in fact wants to keep Communism but he is a weak leader. His failure to crush uprising among Soviet satellite state weaken Soviet and result in chain reaction.

China tianamen decisive crackdown shows CCP determination and their leadership is clear minded how China shall move forward. Deng is very clear minded about western democracy spreading is up to no good for China. He is very clear how China shall shape and western style of governing is no good to follow for a huge and diversity country.

 

[CHN Bamboo]

Soviet expeience tells us the human science and technology are far from enough to support communism at the present stage.
Furthermore, China should be vigilant about western political propaganda, missionary, and capitalist money worship.

The biggest mistake of the Soviet Union made is that they fail to recognize the hypocrisy of the West.
Unlike the Soviet Union, China's economy is healthy and developing smoothly at present. But we're still under attack from the West. Obviously, the west regards us as enemy all the time.
The United States likes to say that the Chinese steal technology, never invest R&D. But nowadays, they are obstructing Made-in-China 2025 in every way.

China's peaceful rising is unrealistic. Because the West has always had the Cold War mentality.
Despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, the West keeps hampering Russia's development. They want Russia to remain poor forever.

“Only by improving the party’s leadership and governance … can we ensure the ship of reform and opening up will sail forward.”

Just agree with this.

As for economic reform, China should be more cautious. Too many compradors were born in the past economic reforms.

上汽就是个大型买办，国家听信了某些人的谗言开放了汽车市场后，整个汽车行业都被国外控制了。
目前经济已经对外很开放了，胡没有提到最重要的中国制造2025，有了技术才最重要。

 

[Mohrenn]

He's dumb.

 

[Jlaw]

He's dumb.

Why was he not arrested. I heard from Canadian radio host whose never been to China but is a China expert say that if I go to China and make a speech contrary to party belief I will be put in a gulag. Yes, a fucking gulag.

 

[TaiShang]

Why was he not arrested. I heard from Canadian radio host whose never been to China but is a China expert say that if I go to China and make a speech contrary to party belief I will be put in a gulag. Yes, a fucking gulag.

Just a proof of low IQ and lack of real word experience.

Western fake news media propaganda machine learned the skills from the best, the Nazi regime.

 

[Menthol]

I think China is not centralized, but organized.

 

[Han Patriot]

I think China is not centralized, but organized.

It's common misconception that China does not have policy debates. China is an Autocracy not a dictatorship. Xi does not control everything, there is a central committee who decides together on very important policies and these people are technocrats, not lawyers. They rose through the system by meritocracy. They were mayors, managers before they became politicians. They had to run SOEs and cities, prove their abilities, before even rising to where they are. It's the classic meritocratic Confucian system.

People are also forgeting the policy research department, the brain behind Chinese policies, it is a grouping of some of the smartest minds in China advising the government of all sorts of socio-economic, political and military policies. If we were just dumb dumb dictators, we wouldn't get so far. It is precisely we are this hybrid creature which the West can't define which scares them so much, liberal economy yet having a controlled portion, liberal debates while having an autocratic system. In Chinese philosophy it is complementary not contradicting, like yin yang, it balances one another. We are not as rigid as the Soviets who think Communist must be a planned economy. Why not have a planned economy with market forces to dictate it. Plan and unplanned, as Wen Jiabo famously said, we need both the seen and unseen hand to guide the economy, a balance between Keynesian and Austrian economics. Chinese pragmatism at it's best, a small man changed our fate by saying a very simple concept, it doesn't matter if it's a black or white cat, as long as it catches mice, it is a good cat.

 

[HariPrasad]

• Hu Deping, son of late party General Secretary Hu Yaobang – whose 1989 death ultimately led to the Tiananmen Square crackdown - says China must stick to reform
• Speech to seminar on reform and opening up warns China to avoid Soviet errors such as centralising power and rigid planned economy

UPDATED : Thursday, 17 January, 2019, 3:51pm

An influential member of the liberal camp of the Chinese Communist Party warned the leadership in a seminar on Wednesday to learn from the mistakes of the former Soviet Union amid the current confrontation between China and the US.

“One of the fatal errors [made by the Soviets] is that they followed a political system with highly centralised power. Not every socialist country does that,” said Hu Deping, son of the late reformist General Secretary Hu Yaobang, whose death ultimately led to the infamous Tiananmen Square crackdown.

“Another [mistake] was their rigid economic system. By the same token, not all socialist countries must practise a planned economy,” he said.

Hu’s speech came as party elites are expected to convene a high level meeting to discuss the direction of policy ahead of the annual parliamentary sessions in March.

It was also delivered against a backdrop of sluggish economic growth and at a time when Beijing finds itself at loggerheads with Washington on a wide range of issues ranging from trade and technology to geopolitics.

Hu, 76, was a member of the Standing Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, an advisory body, until 2013 and is a strong supporter of the private sector and market reform.

The death of his father, another leading liberal figure, in 1989 prompted mass student demonstrations that eventually culminated in the Tiananmen Square crackdown.

His speech on Wednesday was delivered to a seminar in Beijing hosted by the Hongfan Institute of Legal and Economic Studies, a liberal private think tank made up of former economic and policy advisers and academics.

The event, held to mark the 40th anniversary of China’s reform and opening up, was attended by a couple of dozen former officials and intellectuals.

Hu’s speech was billed as being on the topic of the private sector and reform, but he used the occasion to discuss the collapse of the Soviet Union and how China could avoid making the same mistakes.

“The history of the 20th century proved that capitalist countries successfully boosted their economic growth by relying on technological advancement and improved efficiency instead of an investment-driven growth model,” he said.

“On the contrary, the Soviet Union went down a road that led to a dead end.”

China’s current trade war with the US has prompted warnings from many observers that it could drag down the world economy and cost both countries dearly.

Hu warned that China must not backtrack on the reform process.

“We must fully understand the direction and specific targets of our reforms, and never walk backwards,” Hu said.

“We must learn the lessons from the Soviet Union and press on firmly with our [reforms] to the end.”

Hu did not give a list of the critical reforms that he had in mind, but in response to a question from the audience said China should “actively explore political reforms” without elaborating further.

Hu also lamented the damage that the collapse of the Soviet Union had done to the Russian people.

“The current gross domestic product of Russia is even less than that of Guangdong province,” he said.

“It makes people feel really sorry that our big brother [the USSR] has fallen into such a condition.”

Last month a high-profile celebration to mark the 40th anniversary of the reform and opening up process saw President Xi Jinping stressing the importance of continuing reform – but only under the party’s leadership.

“For those that ought to be changed or can be changed, we will change; but for those that shouldn’t be changed or cannot be changed, we will firmly not change,” Xi said.

“Every step in reform and opening up will not be easy, and we will face all kinds of risks and challenges in the future and we may even encounter unimaginable terrifying tidal waves and horrifying storms,” he continued.

“Only by improving the party’s leadership and governance … can we ensure the ship of reform and opening up will sail forward.”

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/pol...-must-learn-soviet-unions-fatal-mistakes-says

Centralized power is a risky game. You can improve fast and you can decline even faster. That is what I had discussed in my Article India Vs China , a great Asian Race.

In Centralized system, everything gets standardize. Creativity and diversity is killed. It is just like eating one food. You may become strong but you will have many deficiencies. This is true for religion as well. Religion with one Prophet and One book are also bound to collapse. When this monopoly does not work, you do not have alternate to shift to other system. This sort of Totalitarian ideologies nourishes its end to its core. It is just a matter of time before such Ideologies or systems collapses.

Why was he not arrested.

True face of China. If some think tank draws attention to the mistake, he should be arrested. One can not expect anything better.

 

[Feng Leng]

People like him are a cancer upon Chinese society.

 

[Beast]

Centralized power is a risky game. You can improve fast and you can decline even faster. That is what I had discussed in my Article India Vs China , a great Asian Race.

In Centralized system, everything gets standardize. Creativity and diversity is killed. It is just like eating one food. You may become strong but you will have many deficiencies. This is true for religion as well. Religion with one Prophet and One book are also bound to collapse. When this monopoly does not work, you do not have alternate to shift to other system. This sort of Totalitarian ideologies nourishes its end to its core. It is just a matter of time before such Ideologies or systems collapses.



True face of China. If some think tank draws attention to the mistake, he should be arrested. One can not expect anything better.

That is political centralised and not privatised centralised. In fact, China business community has more creativity that India. I agree different countries has different ways of working. Centralise power works wonders for Chinese but same cannot be say for India. I suggest Indian themselves go find a way to work best for u. We Chinese are not interested to export our working model for others.

 

[Jlaw]

People like him are a cancer upon Chinese society.

Many people like him in China. My prediction in the end China will lose

 

[zectech]

Western Demands to Soviet Union: "We want a kind and gentle leader who hates war and won't attack us. We want openness of the Soviet System. And freedom of the press and speech there too"

USSR: "Here is Gorbachev and glasnost and perestroika"

Western world: "Fools, now we can destroy the USSR and rape your country economically under Yeltsin, don't oppose Yeltsin, he is a zionist jewish agent who will hand over Russia's wealth to jewish oligarchs. Our demands are always your ruin."

That is why trump's war on China really exposes what zionist jews think of China, they want to destroy it like the long list of nations the West has wrecked. And the the West plays the victim card in false flag attacks for 100 years.