China to past UK, France by 2020

[Genesis]

lol, damn that other thread closed on top 20 fire power, I wrote all this and I don't want it to go to waste so here it is. lol

It's a couple of reasons I think we are weaker now

1) if we are to fight with all our equipments on a battle field, I'm confident, we would be equals more or less. But we need tons of massive transport planes to even get our vehicles and helicopters there. Otherwise we are just 300 guys on Type 71 with a couple of vehicles and no tanks or heavy helicopters, we don't have a blackhawk equivalent....yet

2) The France and UK carriers are better, maybe not the UK one, or the one they don't have, but the one they will have and including the one we are building. Queen Elizabeth and Charles De Gauli are both capable of AEW which I don't think we can have even with the second carrier, may change with the third, but we will see.

3) Naval fleets, We are about equal to them right now more or less, but the French carrier is a really big problem for us, but in terms of British we are more or less their equal, for now.


So to sum up, we can't get our heavy equipments there, our air support at distance is terrible if even existent, J-15 is capable, even if the load isn't full, with refueling I see that we can field at least about 18-20 fully loaded heavy fighters. But no AEW is again not great, but not a problem for now against the British.

Our naval fleet power is more or less the same, so we don't have much an advantage there.


BUT, that will change by 2020, and be a land slide by 2025.

-By 2025, I for see the fourth carrier be more or less ready, and the third and fourth will be the difference maker and will drastically increase the first two's effectiveness by a lot. We may even be able to have a few air refueling aircraft on the carrier and thus achieve full load for all fighters.


-Our LHD will be ready, helicopters, attack or transport will no longer be a problem, I see that we may have 2-3 of that and about 6 of the Type 71, this is a rough estimate, maybe more because of the restructuring of the navy.


-Z-20, Y-20, major improvements to our combat effectiveness. We will be able to ship our MBTs as well as a lot of other equipments, and divisions of troops as well as keep them constantly supplied.

Y-20 to enter production by 2017 and Z-20 to follow either same year or a little later.

Z-20 puts us to equal grounds to US troops in terms of mobility as well as keep our causalities down and well supplied.


-Beidou satellite finally complete, this is a better system than GPS, we incorporated many advanced features that GPS don't have it's also more accurate. We launched it decades later, so what held us back before is now an advantage.

All Beidou satellite to be launched by 2020.


-Our airforce will feature fifth generation fighters, maybe even on the carrier, our drone program will match and may even exceed the France and UK. France fifth generation is not clear, the UK has so little amount of F-35 that's not a deal breaker, we may very well have a few times more fifth gen, and in the case of France have it.

I'm optimistic for 2020 in terms of J-20, and about 2023 for J-31. The engine is going into full gear, so good times.


-I also have a slight suspicion that either before 19, or 21, we may have a whole new infantry uniform, weapon and other support equipments and vehicles. My reasoning? Xi wants to show it off during either 19, 70 years of China, or 21, 100 years of the creation of the party. But it's only a suspicion.


-But the main thing? The thing I'm most excited about? Our naval attack power will dwarf both of them combined, we will have way more ships and the same quality if not better ships. Our type 55 is a ship neither of them will have, and will drastically increase our anti air, anti sea and land attack. Submarine force? No contest.

Type 55, at the some time 2015 or early 2016 will stand construction, about 4-6 will be done and enter service by 2020. Type 57 will be about 10 by 2020 if not sooner.



So it's to my thinking we are "weaker," now, but that scale is tipping to us very fast, our goal is the US, I'm very confident of achieving parity with the US in the China seas by 2025. Good times ahead.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I think you love to joke or to get more attention.

 

[Akasa]

lol, damn that other thread closed on top 20 fire power, I wrote all this and I don't want it to go to waste so here it is. lol

It's a couple of reasons I think we are weaker now

1) if we are to fight with all our equipments on a battle field, I'm confident, we would be equals more or less. But we need tons of massive transport planes to even get our vehicles and helicopters there. Otherwise we are just 300 guys on Type 71 with a couple of vehicles and no tanks or heavy helicopters, we don't have a blackhawk equivalent....yet

And you think France or UK has any "transport" advantage over China? Please check their numbers.

2) The France and UK carriers are better, maybe not the UK one, or the one they don't have, but the one they will have and including the one we are building. Queen Elizabeth and Charles De Gauli are both capable of AEW which I don't think we can have even with the second carrier, may change with the third, but we will see.

How do you compare the UK carrier, which does not exist, to the one China has? AFAIK both carriers are of similar displacement and China has just announced the construction of two larger carriers, due to be completed in 2020. Why do you think AEW isn't an option for the future Chinese carriers, considering that they will be larger in tonnage and that China has been experimenting with such aircraft already?

3) Naval fleets, We are about equal to them right now more or less, but the French carrier is a really big problem for us, but in terms of British we are more or less their equal, for now.

France's carrier is smaller than the Liaoning and does not carry APAR radars unlike the Liaoning, and the PLAN is significantly larger than the Royal or French navies.

So to sum up, we can't get our heavy equipments there, our air support at distance is terrible if even existent, J-15 is capable, even if the load isn't full, with refueling I see that we can field at least about 18-20 fully loaded heavy fighters. But no AEW is again not great, but not a problem for now against the British.

The reason why European countries can go great distances is due to their large number of overseas bases. That is a quality of their geopolitical realm, not a military one.

Our naval fleet power is more or less the same, so we don't have much an advantage there.

Uh, no, China has the world's 3rd largest Navy and their surface ship technologies outstrip that of Europe in most aspects. And then you have radars and missiles, the advantage of which lies with China wholly.

BUT, that will change by 2020, and be a land slide by 2025.

-By 2025, I for see the fourth carrier be more or less ready, and the third and fourth will be the difference maker and will drastically increase the first two's effectiveness by a lot. We may even be able to have a few air refueling aircraft on the carrier and thus achieve full load for all fighters.

A carrier, with a six-year launch interval, wouldn't be built in quantities such as four by 2025.

-Our LHD will be ready, helicopters, attack or transport will no longer be a problem, I see that we may have 2-3 of that and about 6 of the Type 71, this is a rough estimate, maybe more because of the restructuring of the navy.


-Z-20, Y-20, major improvements to our combat effectiveness. We will be able to ship our MBTs as well as a lot of other equipments, and divisions of troops as well as keep them constantly supplied.

Y-20 to enter production by 2017 and Z-20 to follow either same year or a little later.

Z-20 puts us to equal grounds to US troops in terms of mobility as well as keep our causalities down and well supplied.

You really think US transport capability is gaged only by the number of Black Hawks it has?

-Beidou satellite finally complete, this is a better system than GPS, we incorporated many advanced features that GPS don't have it's also more accurate. We launched it decades later, so what held us back before is now an advantage.

All Beidou satellite to be launched by 2020.


-Our airforce will feature fifth generation fighters, maybe even on the carrier, our drone program will match and may even exceed the France and UK. France fifth generation is not clear, the UK has so little amount of F-35 that's not a deal breaker, we may very well have a few times more fifth gen, and in the case of France have it.

China's drone program has produced more drones and far more conceptual models than Europe combined.

I'm optimistic for 2020 in terms of J-20, and about 2023 for J-31. The engine is going into full gear, so good times.

The J-20 does not necessarily have to enter service after the WS15 matures.

 

[j20blackdragon]

China's transportation capabilities are not as bad as you think it is.

Here are two facts to consider:

1. China is situated in the world's largest continental landmass called Eurasia.

2. China currently has the world's largest auto industry.

2012 Statistics | OICA

Now let's think about this for a minute. Let's set up a hypothetical scenario in which China had to go to war. Do you envision China carrying out a massive 'D-Day' style amphibious invasion of a certain overseas country? If so, which country? Is China going to fight a pointless war in the Falkland Islands like the UK? Will China attack Pearl Harbor like Japan? Is China going to invade Australia?

Or is it more likely that China will fight a land war somewhere in Asia?

If China needed oil and natural gas, the PLA and PLAAF can drive and fly into Kazakhstan.

If China needed to reach the Strait of Malacca, the PLA and PLAAF can drive and fly into Peninsular Malaysia.

 

[UKBengali]

Or is it more likely that China will fight a land war somewhere in Asia?

If China needed oil and natural gas, the PLA and PLAAF can drive and fly into Kazakhstan.

If China needed to reach the Strait of Malacca, the PLA and PLAAF can drive and fly into Peninsular Malaysia.

This gets to the heart of why China will dominate the globe in 2-3 decades time.

The centre of the world will naturally come back to Asia and who controls Asia pretty much controls global affairs.

China will reach a level of power sometime between 2030-2040 that it will be able to SIMULTANEOUSLY fight the rest of Asia and any external enemies and WIN.

So it really does not matter if the US can get the whole of Asia against China, not that many Muslim countries will even be remotely interested in fighting against China who they will look to as a natural friend, China will still win due to the fact that it would have a developed economy of 1.5 billion people behind it.

The centralisation of resources and the efficiencies that this will entail will make sure that China emerges victorious against a large disparate group of enemies with little commonality of weapons, doctrines and strategy.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

China already has.

 

[Genesis]

China's transportation capabilities are not as bad as you think it is.

Here are two facts to consider:

1. China is situated in the world's largest continental landmass called Eurasia.

2. China currently has the world's largest auto industry.

Now let's think about this for a minute. Let's set up a hypothetical scenario in which China had to go to war. Do you envision China carrying out a massive 'D-Day' style amphibious invasion of a certain overseas country? If so, which country? Is China going to fight a pointless war in the Falkland Islands like the UK? Will China attack Pearl Harbor like Japan? Is China going to invade Australia?

Or is it more likely that China will fight a land war somewhere in Asia?

If China needed oil and natural gas, the PLA and PLAAF can drive and fly into Kazakhstan.

If China needed to reach the Strait of Malacca, the PLA and PLAAF can drive and fly into Peninsular Malaysia.

First let me just say, if you read my previous posts, you know I support PLA 100%, but what I find lacking is our ability to find fault, if everything goes smoothly in training that doesn't mean we are great it means we didn't go past our limits. If you train for fights you know you always try to one up your previous session and try to fight bigger guys to put yourself at a disadvantage, to find things you can work on.

China has to use amphibious assault for Philippines and Japan. While it would still be good to attack Vietnam from all directions.

China has no hypothetical land enemies, even Vietnam is a stretch, for they are not an American ally and they can't expect American help, so it would be foolish to actually provoke war.

That leaves Philippines and Japan.

Even PLA realizes that naval, marines and air force needs to be reinforced, and further cuts to the land force are going to take place.

Speed is of the utmost importance.

At this point it's not that China can't go to these places, it's that the speed of transportation available is lacking. If we are to fight using even 50,000 men, just the food alone will be massive and if using a road transport, that would take way too long and may not even be possible, as infrastructure sucks in Vietnam and Philippines already and then there would be war damage. So air transport is important.

Without Z-20, we don't even have an air cav equivalent to America. Our troops are still being transported via land, most times, and while that maybe enough to win a war, we don't really want to go to one. So we need to demonstrate the same capabilities if not more than the Americans to show our neighbors that against us, they won't even be able to hold until Americans mobilizes enough troops to come to the "rescue." And even if America does, it would be pointless.

 

[Mighty Caty]

The most important question is not whether or not China can surpass the UK or the French, as far as i concern, China currently can easily overtake UK or France in any 1 on 1 scenario. There are no question that Chinese Capability can smash even UK as of now.

The more important question is whether or not China can outplay UK or France, but rather can China outpace both. One major lesson we European learn from WW2 is that it's useless to fight alone. Every war from WW2 on the european do so by grouping into an allied group and fight with an alliance of country instead of going alone.

By fighting as a coalition, we can pool resource and we can achieve more by simply going alone. By then we can focus on all our resource and maximize it and also the responsibility or burden of war was shared equally on each part, so there are no single war would burden one or two particular nation, this is why the West have the edge on warfare in recents history

Nazi Germany alone can take on any country 1 by 1, they are strong enough to do so, but in the end, they were brought down by a coalition of country during WW2. In this day and age, even United States cannot afford to go to war alone. I don't believe China can do that either.

So, rather ask yourselves can China take on UK or France, what you should really ask is can China take on the UK, France and quite possibly Germany at the same time in 2020, if there are any war in the future with the UK, the french or the German, they will almost always fight together.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I agree we have a very long way to go, but on the upside... our growth momentum is greater than any other major country in the world.

We need to keep up the momentum in our growth, whether it is economic or military, especially since the former compliments the latter.

And the latter protects the former.

 

[Genesis]

The most important question is not whether or not China can surpass the UK or the French, as far as i concern, China currently can easily overtake UK or France in any 1 on 1 scenario. There are no question that Chinese Capability can smash even UK as of now.

The more important question is whether or not China can outplay UK or France, but rather can China outpace both. One major lesson we European learn from WW2 is that it's useless to fight alone. Every war from WW2 on the european do so by grouping into an allied group and fight with an alliance of country instead of going alone.

By fighting as a coalition, we can pool resource and we can achieve more by simply going alone. By then we can focus on all our resource and maximize it and also the responsibility or burden of war was shared equally on each part, so there are no single war would burden one or two particular nation, this is why the West have the edge on warfare in recents history

Nazi Germany alone can take on any country 1 by 1, they are strong enough to do so, but in the end, they were brought down by a coalition of country during WW2. In this day and age, even United States cannot afford to go to war alone. I don't believe China can do that either.

So, rather ask yourselves can China take on UK or France, what you should really ask is can China take on the UK, France and quite possibly Germany at the same time in 2020, if there are any war in the future with the UK, the french or the German, they will almost always fight together.

We can take on the whole of Europe now minus Russia, if we place all our military in a vacuum and transportation, supplies are not an issue.

But China is looking to 200+ to about 300 Y-20 transport planes. Now maybe about 50 and more will turn into AEW, and electronic warfare planes, refueling planes and other planes of this nature. You are still looking at about low 200s in terms of large transport planes and with IL-76 and other medium transport planes that lack load but has range, you are easily looking at 500 such planes and quite possibly more. This will all be done by 2025, or a little later.

Europe under the NATO agreement has most of the planes under US jurisdiction. Now why is this not effective. I'm not saying China and UK will fight, but China and UK may clash in Africa. As you know we have massive interests there. Our investment in 2013 in Tanzania alone is more than the total Japanese investment in Africa. While UK and France still sees colonial Africa, maybe France more than UK. The US will get involved if there is threat on UK, not for some crazy African adventure.

Then the agreement assumes the developed world has the initiative and can dictate the pace, but that is not true with China, any involvement will need immediate attention. By the time everything's ready, the European forward force,if they can even get it there in time, would have been wiped out and we would have massive advantage.



I don't want to go further, last point China has more men than all of Europe, we are not Germany, the comparison it's more like Rome against Parthia and allies than German against the world.

As to navy, you are on this forum, if you are interested follow our threads, and see how much more powerful our navy is getting. BTW, starting this year all new ships are up to and some exceed western standards, minus DDG-1000, Ford, Freedom, independence class. Submarines hard to tell. But those are not European are they, now.

 

[Mighty Caty]

We can take on the whole of Europe now minus Russia, if we place all our military in a vacuum and transportation, supplies are not an issue.

But China is looking to 200+ to about 300 Y-20 transport planes. Now maybe about 50 and more will turn into AEW, and electronic warfare planes, refueling planes and other planes of this nature. You are still looking at about low 200s in terms of large transport planes and with IL-76 and other medium transport planes that lack load but has range, you are easily looking at 500 such planes and quite possibly more. This will all be done by 2025, or a little later.

Europe under the NATO agreement has most of the planes under US jurisdiction. Now why is this not effective. I'm not saying China and UK will fight, but China and UK may clash in Africa. As you know we have massive interests there. Our investment in 2013 in Tanzania alone is more than the total Japanese investment in Africa. While UK and France still sees colonial Africa, maybe France more than UK. The US will get involved if there is threat on UK, not for some crazy African adventure.

Then the agreement assumes the developed world has the initiative and can dictate the pace, but that is not true with China, any involvement will need immediate attention. By the time everything's ready, the European forward force,if they can even get it there in time, would have been wiped out and we would have massive advantage.



I don't want to go further, last point China has more men than all of Europe, we are not Germany, the comparison it's more like Rome against Parthia and allies than German against the world.

As to navy, you are on this forum, if you are interested follow our threads, and see how much more powerful our navy is getting. BTW, starting this year all new ships are up to and some exceed western standards, minus DDG-1000, Ford, Freedom, independence class. Submarines hard to tell. But those are not European are they, now.

You forgot to factor in one major factor, that's land based supply base

Say if China want to fight EU at Horn of Africa, that more or less the mid point between China and Europe. China do not have any base from China all the way to Horn of Africa, their last stop would be Pakistan, which given they won't take neutral stance and support Chinese effort

On the other hand, British have base in Ascension and Diego Garcia while French have bases in Côte d'Ivoire, Mayotte, Reunion which was a lot closer to Horn of Africa than the Chinese (about 3 times closer)

So for every trip made by the Chinese, the EU could made 3 trips, assume the transport capability is the same between EU nation and China.

That would mean either

Chinese transport capability is at least 3 times as big as the EU nation, (either 3 times as big or 3 times as large), or

Chinese drag one of the African nation into war (that would mean splitting troop on defending the African host and operation in Horn of Africa ), or

Chinese can only support a force 3 times smaller than the EU

The important fact is, there are EU own (not just friendly country) territories all around the world and they would be open for all EU nation to access, while China does not own any overseas territories, that would mean either China need to build a logistic force that's a lot bigger than the European, or have to drag other country into any war as part of co-belligerent, which will spilt up the Chinese expedition force

And you are quite wrong about NATO aircraft being commanded by the American, do you know NATO have their own Airforce? That bought, command and maintained by NATO instead of respective country?

When a fighter is Under NATO command, they are under the NATO command structure, often time you will see a German in command of a Swedish tank battalion, or a French admiral command an American Carrier or British Command a German Fighter squadron

 

[Genesis]

You forgot to factor in one major factor, that's land based supply base

Say if China want to fight EU at Horn of Africa, that more or less the mid point between China and Europe. China do not have any base from China all the way to Horn of Africa, their last stop would be Pakistan, which given they won't take neutral stance and support Chinese effort

On the other hand, British have base in Ascension and Diego Garcia while French have bases in Côte d'Ivoire, Mayotte, Reunion which was a lot closer to Horn of Africa than the Chinese (about 3 times closer)

So for every trip made by the Chinese, the EU could made 3 trips, assume the transport capability is the same between EU nation and China.

That would mean either

Chinese transport capability is at least 3 times as big as the EU nation, (either 3 times as big or 3 times as large), or

Chinese drag one of the African nation into war (that would mean splitting troop on defending the African host and operation in Horn of Africa ), or

Chinese can only support a force 3 times smaller than the EU

The important fact is, there are EU own (not just friendly country) territories all around the world and they would be open for all EU nation to access, while China does not own any overseas territories, that would mean either China need to build a logistic force that's a lot bigger than the European, or have to drag other country into any war as part of co-belligerent, which will spilt up the Chinese expedition force

And you are quite wrong about NATO aircraft being commanded by the American, do you know NATO have their own Airforce? That bought, command and maintained by NATO instead of respective country?

When a fighter is Under NATO command, they are under the NATO command structure, often time you will see a German in command of a Swedish tank battalion, or a French admiral command an American Carrier or British Command a German Fighter squadron

You are talking foreign bases, not transport capabilities. Foreign bases are an X factor, not purely military. It's political. Political situation change, China is pumping hundreds of billions into Africa each year, would you be surprised if China has a few of those in 2025? It's just China is stuck in Asia right now by America.

We do't know the political situation in 2025, IF China manages to push America more or less out of east Asia, the world would not be the same, of course it's if. But this thread is more pure military since I can't predict the future.

There's the real possibility that china may reform the Navy again in the 2020s after this one this year, to fit a more far reaching mission.

Also Y-20 can reach almost every inch of Africa.

Now I did know about NATO had its own deal, but I didn't know how exactly it worked. But France is not under that deal isn't it. Either way, at most this places us in the same transport scope, BUT China has complete command of Chinese military and is always on the ready.

The 2013 earthquake proved the fast reaction of the army, an army mobilized after less than half an hour, and full reports were on the desk of the strategy meeting in 2 hours.

China will almost certainly outpace the EU response. NATO maybe united, but British and French troops are not under their command, not in that kind of number anyways.




let's look at this scenario, China EU finds out same time about this crisis. EU needs to talk about it themselves then to between themselves.

China needs to talk about it ourselves, let's assume same amount of time for domestic talks, though it's more likely we be faster, not authoritarian for nothing.

China sends forces while EU still talking, EU may have members that send as we are just as a counter, but no way could it be a united effort and thus less powerful.

Now if past experience is used a week is used for talks and mobilization, we all know that's generous, by then half a division of well armed troops will already be there, and most likely more. Battles would have been fought with whatever's there that's opposing China, before the EU even start the sending of troops. This is looking at Mali incident, and from the various sources from Chinese experts on Chinese mobilization and transport speed based on the exercise each year.

It's quite possible that EU would mobilize before any final decision, but won't sent in huge numbers before final resolution.

So in the end we would have the advantage, for a 2 million army, our lift capabilities would far out number any Europeans have to offer.

This is all of course talking a combined European war, while the title suggest individually, or individually with minimal allies. So 2020 would be more than enough to reach this level, except the gap would widen quite considerably after 2020.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Next time, stop posting those nonsense comparisons, it will only downgrade your status as a military fan.

 

[j20blackdragon]

China has to use amphibious assault for Philippines and Japan. While it would still be good to attack Vietnam from all directions.

China has no hypothetical land enemies, even Vietnam is a stretch, for they are not an American ally and they can't expect American help, so it would be foolish to actually provoke war.

That leaves Philippines and Japan.

No offense, but any suggestion that China somehow needs to conduct an amphibious assault on Japan and the Philippines is absurd. Both countries are island nations with no natural resources. Only an idiot would want to invade them. The US decided to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki precisely so they wouldn't have to invade an island full of fanatical Japanese. In fact, it was always the other way around throughout history. Japan was the one that wanted to invade the Asian mainland because they needed the resources. Even today Japan needs to import 60 percent of their food or they would starve.

Of course, nowadays Japan has no ability whatsoever to invade China, so there's no need to worry about that. China, on the other hand, is holding all the cards. We got nukes. We got ballistic and cruise missiles capable of reaching every square meter of Japan. We got the H-6K. We will soon have the J-20. We will soon have stealth UCAVs. We will soon have hypersonic glide vehicles. China can disable every single Japanese military base with missile strikes alone. After that, we will start hitting critical infrastructure like power stations, oil depots, pipelines, bridges, factories, civilian ports and airports. Are you saying Japan still won't surrender after that?

The Philippines does not even need to be mentioned because they have no military. China can send semi-submersible drilling rigs into the South China Sea right now and start drilling. What is the Philippines going to do about it? Absolutely nothing.

Lastly, I urge you to take a look at Asia again.

This is the world's largest contiguous landmass with vast amounts of natural resources. If China plays its cards right, we can control all or most of it within this century. But you don't need ships to do it. You need lots of vehicles in the same way Genghis Khan needed lots of horses to hold the Mongol Empire together.

You need the J-20 for undisputed air superiority throughout Asia.

You need the Y-20.

You need the Blue Whale.

Once you control the Asian mainland, you will naturally control the coastal waters surrounding the continent for your merchant vessels. You don't need aircraft carriers when you have J-20s on land.

Now explain why we need to invade some islands when we can have all of Asia?

 

[neehar]

lol, damn that other thread closed on top 20 fire power, I wrote all this and I don't want it to go to waste so here it is. lol

It's a couple of reasons I think we are weaker now

1) if we are to fight with all our equipments on a battle field, I'm confident, we would be equals more or less. But we need tons of massive transport planes to even get our vehicles and helicopters there. Otherwise we are just 300 guys on Type 71 with a couple of vehicles and no tanks or heavy helicopters, we don't have a blackhawk equivalent....yet

2) The France and UK carriers are better, maybe not the UK one, or the one they don't have, but the one they will have and including the one we are building. Queen Elizabeth and Charles De Gauli are both capable of AEW which I don't think we can have even with the second carrier, may change with the third, but we will see.

3) Naval fleets, We are about equal to them right now more or less, but the French carrier is a really big problem for us, but in terms of British we are more or less their equal, for now.


So to sum up, we can't get our heavy equipments there, our air support at distance is terrible if even existent, J-15 is capable, even if the load isn't full, with refueling I see that we can field at least about 18-20 fully loaded heavy fighters. But no AEW is again not great, but not a problem for now against the British.

Our naval fleet power is more or less the same, so we don't have much an advantage there.


BUT, that will change by 2020, and be a land slide by 2025.

-By 2025, I for see the fourth carrier be more or less ready, and the third and fourth will be the difference maker and will drastically increase the first two's effectiveness by a lot. We may even be able to have a few air refueling aircraft on the carrier and thus achieve full load for all fighters.


-Our LHD will be ready, helicopters, attack or transport will no longer be a problem, I see that we may have 2-3 of that and about 6 of the Type 71, this is a rough estimate, maybe more because of the restructuring of the navy.


-Z-20, Y-20, major improvements to our combat effectiveness. We will be able to ship our MBTs as well as a lot of other equipments, and divisions of troops as well as keep them constantly supplied.

Y-20 to enter production by 2017 and Z-20 to follow either same year or a little later.

Z-20 puts us to equal grounds to US troops in terms of mobility as well as keep our causalities down and well supplied.


-Beidou satellite finally complete, this is a better system than GPS, we incorporated many advanced features that GPS don't have it's also more accurate. We launched it decades later, so what held us back before is now an advantage.

All Beidou satellite to be launched by 2020.


-Our airforce will feature fifth generation fighters, maybe even on the carrier, our drone program will match and may even exceed the France and UK. France fifth generation is not clear, the UK has so little amount of F-35 that's not a deal breaker, we may very well have a few times more fifth gen, and in the case of France have it.

I'm optimistic for 2020 in terms of J-20, and about 2023 for J-31. The engine is going into full gear, so good times.


-I also have a slight suspicion that either before 19, or 21, we may have a whole new infantry uniform, weapon and other support equipments and vehicles. My reasoning? Xi wants to show it off during either 19, 70 years of China, or 21, 100 years of the creation of the party. But it's only a suspicion.


-But the main thing? The thing I'm most excited about? Our naval attack power will dwarf both of them combined, we will have way more ships and the same quality if not better ships. Our type 55 is a ship neither of them will have, and will drastically increase our anti air, anti sea and land attack. Submarine force? No contest.

Type 55, at the some time 2015 or early 2016 will stand construction, about 4-6 will be done and enter service by 2020. Type 57 will be about 10 by 2020 if not sooner.



So it's to my thinking we are "weaker," now, but that scale is tipping to us very fast, our goal is the US, I'm very confident of achieving parity with the US in the China seas by 2025. Good times ahead.

me thinks..if a war is fought in atlantic ocean u.k and france will win.if its fought is scs china wins..