China set to pull out of two railway projects

[EasyNow]

The following link is the financing agreement between Bangladesh Railway and Asian Development Bank (ADB). You can see for yourself what an agreement is unlike China where China does not want to disclose documents for everyone to see ! Recently Chinese ambassador to Bangladesh got angry cause vaccine price was disclosed. It is sad that China did not wish to be transparent about Vaccine in times of global pandemic.

Absolutely right on the issue of secrecy with China. I was seriously taken aback by the Chinese position on vaccine prices - that is not normal at all.

Unfortunately, BD in its desperation agreed to the secrecy which made us guilty too, but it was a seriously dodgy style of business from China.

 

[CIA Mole]

This is truly tragic.
They're building 25-30 story office buildings in BD, but they can't modernize 50 miles worth of train tracks.

we don’t want bulllet train jumla like india

we just want to build 100km/h trains with ac that the west have had since 1930

 

[nautilaceae]

Indians took the money and failed to deliver, I blame the BD Govt for even to agree to buy all the vaccines only from India, it was stupidity on their part. They put all the eggs in one basket ! Failure to deliver on pledges and contract is very typically Indian, unlike the Chinese ! Yes I said it, Chinese folks deliver on time.

What is sad is China was playing price politics with a needed vaccine something China promised it would never do.

In reality China wants to be like the dominating West, well China is following the same formula.

No bid contract are always a bad idea.

We are just going to disagree on the topic, so further replies are pretty pointless !

So you blame BD govt, but not Indian vaccine maker for failure to deliver? Wow, your humbleness and mindfulness is spiritual-guru like. Are you a yogi?

But, why didn't you blame BD govt for making public the discounted vaccine price offered by China? Don't you find yourself contradictory? In spite of your effort to look balance and convincing.

And you still haven't answered me on Japan-India bullet train, which was a bid contract? You just keep deflecting to other subjects. Of course it's becoming pointless.

Is there a pose in yoga called deflection?

 

[fallstuff]

Let me tell you about my view about Indian IT talent.

I spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley managing projects - I know what started the IT flooding from India in the late eighties. Indians working in US corporates started subcontracting work back to Indian IT programmers in India because of ONE factor - cost. And then the rest we know is history. US managers did not care about quality, all they cared about is cost, cost, cost. So what that the horribly coded software had bugs out the ying-yang, it was cheap to have the brownies work night and day to correct it. At the low wages Indians worked, it made sense.

You can Thank lazy American managers who saw this as an easy, cheap way to cut costs (hiring contractors from companies like INFOSYS instead of high priced IBM or Verizon who had mainly high-rate American citizens) and now Indians claim they are the IT superpower, who are actually 90% inexperienced cheap IT workers (new to the IT game), not geniuses. American hourly rates for programmers back in the day was around US$40 an hour while Indians used work for 10.

I have personally seen them getting chewed out all the time in front of me for the poor quality of their work (where it started to get embarrassing), and the English for most Indians nowadays is really bad, as suits inexperienced 'talent'.

Geniuses aren't coming out of India anymore.

Indians have a special talent for one thing though, they can take an inhumane amount of abuse and stay quiet, especially the inexperienced ones today. They understand the high stakes of the H1B game. I doubt any of us in Bangladesh and Pakistan with a modicum of self respect could take this much verbal abuse like Indians get in US IT roles and still keep a job. In other words, they are ideal order takers.

So - this is Indian H1B secret of success at "Intel, MS, Apple, and the likes of Google" like you said.

H1B's aren't even being hired anymore in the US. Only ones who were lucky enough to be sponsored and get Green Cards are hired.

Indians are inexpensive IT workforce, nothing more, nothing less. They will claim as usual they have some special talent over other groups but they really don't. If there was an equivalent Bangladeshi company like INFOSYS today, don't you think Bangladeshis would get jobs? All Indians are good at, is (sometimes better) English skills and padding resumes. Americans are easy to fool...

I will blame the lack of organizing skills and capabilities of us in Bangladesh and Pakistan - for Indians having us beat in this BPO game and exporting H1B's. However Bangladesh has the world's largest number of freelancers doing other things (650,000) and has 16% of the globe's online workers, while India has 24%. Bangladesh being one-eighth the size of India, this is not a small feat. However this is off topic.

If you do not believe me - ask some of your Bangladeshi friends in Silicon Valley, they will give you the scoop.

A freelancing boom is reshaping Bangladesh and its economy

Rapid digitalisation and a high rate of educated unemployment has made Bangladesh the second largest exporter of online labour.

theprint.in

Becoming the CEO of your own life

Three jobs switches and 15 years later, Shohel Ahmed rose to what he thought was the peak of his career as the head of human resources at a local conglomerate.

www.thedailystar.net

Back to the topic, yes it will take us a while to get to the level of Korea or even China as far as construction projects, but we do have to plan for it. Like brother @TOTUU said.

Some of the high prices of the bid may be attributed to the graft paid locally, I don't know.

When Koreans built the roads, buildings and infra in middle east and gulf countries they were in the same boat as we are today (as far as country, economy, exports) but look where they are now. We need good dedicated honest people who will watch our interests as a country, not sell-out people who watch other country's interests for whatever reason, bribe-takers or being fifth columnists.

Some people might say "Apnio-to Pakistan-er pa chaten?". I have seen people comment on this, regrettably, alluding at my behavior. This is coming mainly from Indian shills who have Bangladeshi flags or by Bangladeshi posters who do not understand my MO.

Well - India is doing $50 Billion a year of "faida uthana" game in Bangaldesh, Pakistan is not. That is enough reason.

I was being a bit sarcastic.
I have seen my share of Indian candidates being interviewed.

I saw one young candidate,he looked mid twenties but had 8 years of working experience ! I asked him what year he passed his bachelors and what year he passed Masters. He took a couple of seconds to answer. He said he graduated Masters just a few months ago and it his bachelors about 2 years ago.

I asked him if he there was any break in his studies, to which he proudly said no. I pretty much got what I needed to know from him ! I could not ask him how old he was outright because that violates Federal age discrimination laws. So according to his resume he started working when he was about 16 years old in USA ! He was not hired, another Indian was hired with the proper educational background and experience

And yes he came from an Indian body shop.

I kind of felt bad for that kid, I don't exactly blame him trying to get a decent job.

 

[fallstuff]

So you blame BD govt, but not Indian vaccine maker for failure to deliver? Wow, your humbleness and mindfulness is spiritual-guru like. Are you a yogi?

But, why didn't you blame BD govt for making public the discounted vaccine price offered by China? Don't you find yourself contradictory? In spite of your effort to look balance and convincing.

And you still haven't answered me on Japan-India bullet train, which was a bid contract? You just keep deflecting to other subjects. Of course it's becoming pointless.

Is there a pose in yoga called deflection?

You did not read my post properly. I said it is expected that the Indians will break the contract as they always do ( case in point 1300mw thermal power contract signed 11 years ago, Indians are masters of non-tariff barriers on imports from Bangladesh) as you can see I was not saying nice things about Indians.

China playing with vaccine price in Global pandemic was not smart politics on China's part.

Anyway dude it was a pleasure to exchange posts with you , peace my friend !

 

[Bilal9]

I was being a bit sarcastic.
I have seen my share of Indian candidates being interviewed.

I saw one young candidate,he looked mid twenties but had 8 years of working experience ! I asked him what year he passed his bachelors and what year he passed Masters. He took a couple of seconds to answer. He said he graduated Masters just a few months ago and it his bachelors about 2 years ago.

I asked him if he there was any break in his studies, to which he proudly said no. I pretty much got what I needed to know from him ! I could not ask him how old he outright was because that violates Federal age discrimination laws. So according to his resume he started working when he was about 16 years old in USA ! He was not hired, another Indian was hired with the proper educational background and experience

And yes he came from an Indian body shop.

I kind of felt bad for that kid, I don't exactly blame him trying to get a decent job.

That was a hilarious recollection.

Yes I've had this kind of encounter with Indian job candidates as well.

On the one hand you get incensed that people lie through their teeth like this, but then you also realize how much is at stake with this kid's family back home. and where they come from.

I guess I only get mad when people like this, who have come up in the ranks through the kindness and charity of other people, start forgetting it and start beating on their chests about super power this and that, when we all know the reality back home.

 

[Destranator]

If I'm communist, then you must be Hindu.

 

[Paul2]

'China set to pull out of two railway projects'

China is supposed to carry the cost of the construction which is 80 to 85 per cent of the total cost of the project. The main condition for China's financing is that open tenders cannot be called and Chinese contractors must get the job.

en.prothomalo.com

Govt Plea to Reduce Cost
'China set to pull out of two railway projects'
Anowar Hossain
(Dhaka)
Published: 18 Jun 2021, 01:40

China is set to pull out of two railway projects as they were told to reduce the project expenditure. They said they would not finance the construction of a dual gauge double line from Joydebpur in Gazipur to Ishwardi in Pabna.

The Chinese contractor has stated that it would not work on the project of converting the metre gauge line to dual line from Akhaura to Sylhet.

Apart from this, an agreement has been reached with the Chinese contractor for the construction of a dual gauge double line from Joydebpur to Jamalpur via Mymensingh. Sources said that the future of the project has become uncertain under the existing circumstances.
These three projects were approved under G2G agreement with China. Chinese contractors were appointed for the implementation of these projects. Their government will provide loans for these projects.

But an investigation by the Prime Minister's Office revealed that the project cost was estimated very high. Therefore, prime minister Sheikh Hasina directed to reduce expenditure by Tk 46.5 billion (4,650 crore) on two projects worth Tk 303.25 billion (30,325 crore).

The railway ministry also formed an expenditure rationalisation committee and proposed to reduce the project expenditure. China then announced that it was withdrawing from financing a project. During Chinese president Xi Jinping’s visit to Bangladesh in 2016, it was agreed that China would finance these projects.

On 15 September last year, Prothom Alo published a report on the G2G projects with China titled “Development on high interest loans, luxurious expenditure in project”. On 30 September a probe committee was formed by the Prime Minister’s Office. The committee submitted the report by mid-October.

After the submission, prime minister Sheikh Hasina directed to reduce the project expenditure. At the same time, she directed to take necessary steps including amendments in compliance with the law by analysing the observations and recommendations of the probe committee. A letter regarding this was sent to the railway ministry on 5 November.

Apart from this, the construction project of Joydebpur-Mymensingh-Jamalpur mixed gauge double line is also being done under G2G agreement. The estimated cost of this project is Tk 115.57 billion. For this, a settlement of Tk 80 billion was signed with a Chinese contractor for the construction of the main structure. This project is yet to get the official approval of the government. The prime minister's directive also mentioned to rationalise the cost of this project too.

According to the railway sources, the processes involve the assessment of the cost of these three projects, conditions of appointing contractors and finance are the same.

When asked about this, railway minister Nurul Islam told Prothom Alo, “We are reissuing letters to China for the Joydebpur-Ishwardi and Akhaura-Sylhet projects. We will take necessary initiatives once we get a reply from them. The future of the Joydebpur-Jamalpur project is also relying on these projects.

Bangladesh is supposed to bear the local expenditures including land acquisition, rehabilitation and salary allowances. And China is supposed to carry the cost of the construction which is 80 to 85 per cent of the total cost of the project. The main condition for China's financing is that open tenders cannot be called and Chinese contractors must get the job.

At least three officials of the railway told Prothom Alo that the cost of uncontested projects is usually high. At the moment, only the project of constructing railway tracks at the both sides of the Padma bridge is going on under G2G agreement with China. The estimated cost of this project is Tk 392.47 billion. There are allegations of extra expenditure in this project too.

Joydebpur-Ishwardi dual gauge double line

The China Civil Engineering Construction Corporation (CCECC) is the contractor of the project. A cost of about Tk 610 million (61 crore) was estimated to construct per kilometre of railway tracks.
Construction of similar railway tracks is underway in Akhaura–Laksam route spending Tk 190 million (19 crore) a kilometre of tracks. Contractor of this project was appointed through competitive bidding.

According to railway sources, the expenditure of the Joydebpur-Ishwardi project was fixed with price of the project equipment estimated to be increased by 25 per cent a year.

Instructed by the prime minister, the rationalisation committee proposed it at 10 per cent, reducing the project cost by Tk 10.85 billion (1,085 crore). A cost of Tk 800 was fixed to fill a cubic meter of soil. Yet, it was Tk 250-400 in other projects of the railway.

The rationalisation committee proposed to decrease Tk 1.43 billon (143 crore) in land filling, Tk 1.27 billon (127 crore) in installing railway tracks, Tk 1.50 billon (150 crore) in constructing bridge and culvert plus a five per cent reduction on the estimated cost to build the station building.

The expenditure decreased by Tk 14.95 billion (1,495 billon) – a 12.91 per cent of the total project cost. The project expenditure was estimated at Tk 142.51 billion. The Chinese contractor is fixed at Tk 115.87 billion (11,587 crore) for constructing the main structure.

The railway authorities sent a letter to the Chinese government through Economic Relations Division on 17 January on the matter of cost reduction.

After that, China evaluated the project by an independent agency and informed that many portions of the project require high cost because adequate technical preparation and survey hadn’t been carried out.

If the project is implemented, revenue from goods transportation won’t be achieved as much as it was estimated. Hence, payment of debt will be in a big risk. So, the project didn’t pass the evaluation of the Chinese government.

Railway officials said in fact, China said that they are pulling out of the project. Then again, the CCECC on 24 February also said that they would not work in compliance with the reduction in the project expenditure.

Project director Golam Mostofa told Prothom Alo a letter will be sent to China requesting the latter to refinance. If the response is negative, alternative way will be considered then, he added.

Construction of Akhaura-Sylhet mixed gauge railway

The cost of the Akhaura-Sylhet mixed gauge railway construction project was estimated at Tk 161.04 billion (16,104 crore). A Chinese contractor was fixed at Tk 120.79 billion (12,079 crore) for the construction of main structure.

A proposal was also prepared to reduce Tk 33.54 billion (3,354.31 crore) from the cost of the contractor’s portion as per the prime minister's directives.
China approved the China Railway Construction Bridge Engineering Bureau Group Limited (CRBG) as the contractor of the project.

A cost of Tk 555.1 million (55.51 crore) was estimated to construct a kilometre of railway tracks. Yet, Tk 103.7 million (10.37 crore) was estimated to build a kilometre of similar tracks in Kulaura-Shahbajpur railway.

The expenditure rationalisation committee summited its report proposing to reduce the expenditure in similar manner. But the contractor didn’t agree. The Chinese government has approved credit to this project. However, uncertainty remains until signing the agreement.
On 26 August, foreign minister AK Abdul Momen wrote a letter regarding this project to prime minister Sheikh Hasina claiming the project expenditure is not high.

At that time, the expatriates' welfare and overseas employment minister Imran Ahmad and the environment, forest and climate change minister Shahab Uddin sent letter to the planning minister to expedite implementation of the project.

Regarding this, executive director of Transparency International Bangladesh (TIB) Iftekharuzzaman told Prothom Alo that it’s a good sign the Prime Minister's Office has found out the extra expenditure. However, it is the incapacity of the railway officials not to find out the extra cost during the bargain. There are examples of Chinese contractors enjoying privilege through illegal transaction around the world. This time whether such incident has happened should be scrutinised, he added.

He further said, “China might have some conditions since they finance the majority of the fund. However, an international standard should be maintained. China is a big economic and diplomatic partner of Bangladesh. That is why we expect China will not take any illogical stance on Bangladesh’s government reducing the project expenditure.”

This report appeared in the print and online edition of Prothom Alo and has been rewritten in English by Ashish Basu and Hasanul Banna.

Double gauge railway in 2021?

Makes no sense.

The cost of double gauging probably costs more than the cost of multiple trains to put on this line.

 

[bluesky]

Double gauge railway in 2021?

Makes no sense.

The cost of double gauging probably costs more than the cost of multiple trains to put on this line.

No, it is not a double gauge but a dual gauge. In Bangladesh, all of today's railway tracks (2,800 km) were built during British time before 1947. The then govt introduced first the broad gauge tracks in the North-South of the western BD.

Subsequently, it built meter gauge lines east of the Padma and the Jamuna rivers that include Dhaka, Chittagong, and Sylhet.

Now, the govt is introducing DUAL GAUGE tracks. It means, one additional single track will be laid in between the present two tracks for the broad gauge so that both broad gauge and meter gauge trains can operate.

 

[CIA Mole]

No, it is not a double gauge but a dual gauge. In Bangladesh, all of today's railway tracks (2,800 km) were built during British time before 1947. The then govt introduced first the broad gauge tracks in the North-South of the western BD.

Subsequently, it built meter gauge lines east of the Padma and the Jamuna rivers that include Dhaka, Chittagong, and Sylhet.

Now, the govt is introducing DUAL GAUGE tracks. It means, one additional single track will be laid in between the present two tracks for the broad gauge so that both broad gauge and meter gauge trains can operate.

every able bodied young man needs to be put to work

strip out all those old roads and rail and replace them with standardized ones

 

[bluesky]

every able bodied young man needs to be put to work

strip out all those old roads and rail and replace them with standardized ones

Tell this to Hasina Bibi and other politicians. Even if just a 50 km new railway project is undertaken by the country, many steel and cement-based industries would develop because this project would need products derived from these two basic materials. and many people will get employment.

 

[nautilaceae]

You did not read my post properly. I said it is expected that the Indians will break the contract as they always do ( case in point 1300mw thermal power contract signed 11 years ago, Indians are masters of non-tariff barriers on imports from Bangladesh) as you can see I was not saying nice things about Indians.

China playing with vaccine price in Global pandemic was not smart politics on China's part.

Anyway dude it was a pleasure to exchange posts with you , peace my friend !

I read your post thoroughly, you did diss Indians, but you unfairly blame BD govt for what is India's failure to honor contract. Fine, yogi. But why didn't you blame BD when it is clearly BD official's fault for disclosing the discounted price offered by China? Bangladeshi member all concurred, you want me pull out that thread?

You tried to look balance and convincing, but ended up contradicting your own stance.


And no words on India-Japan bullet train contract? I'm still waiting. Don't deflect away.

 

[Bilal9]

Double gauge railway in 2021?

Makes no sense.

The cost of double gauging probably costs more than the cost of multiple trains to put on this line.

Double gauge is required because right now Bangladesh is transitioning from meter gauge usage to broad gauge, as used in India. This is for freight trains and slower passenger trains. They can later take out the meter gauge rail, which is one rail inside.

Western part of Bangladesh has mostly Broad Gauge lines, while Eastern/Southern Part has Meter gauge lines.

Broad gauge allows usage of larger passenger cars and is way more stable in the soft soil we have in Bangladesh, where ballast and concrete sleepers alone does not help all that much.

The newer meter gauge locomotives ordered (most recently the 3000 series from Hyundai Rotem) has provisions of gauge change to Broad gauge and alternators have also been ordered keeping in mind, usage for Broad gauge.

I said slower passenger trains because there is a bullet train proposal being looked at from Chinese Rail consortium that will use a different high speed gauge and dedicated line, which is probably similar to that used in China and Japan. Probably standard gauge.

 

[nautilaceae]

View attachment 755250

Thank you for reading my post

 

[Paul2]

No, it is not a double gauge but a dual gauge. In Bangladesh, all of today's railway tracks (2,800 km) were built during British time before 1947. The then govt introduced first the broad gauge tracks in the North-South of the western BD.

Subsequently, it built meter gauge lines east of the Padma and the Jamuna rivers that include Dhaka, Chittagong, and Sylhet.

Now, the govt is introducing DUAL GAUGE tracks. It means, one additional single track will be laid in between the present two tracks for the broad gauge so that both broad gauge and meter gauge trains can operate.

Yes, even a 3rd rail makes no sense.

If existing 1m gauge trains keep going on their own railway, it makes no sense to keep them operational on the new routes if new routes already have broad gauge connection to central regions.