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China-Pakistan railway ‘worth it’ at estimated US$58 billion: study

@villageidiot

Noon League ko naya chooran mil gaya. Mian Sahab ko lao takai woh railway line banaye gilgit sai gwadar tak

Sherrrrrrr

Even though this project looks far too ambitious and unfeasible imo
 
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Noon League ko naya chooran mil gaya. Mian Sahab ko lao takai woh railway line banaye gilgit sai gwadar tak
Bro, don't be a hater. Agar Mian sb apni welding skills se atom bomb bna skte, to railway track bhi bna skte hn. :)
 
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58 billion dollars is too expensive.

$58 billion can manufacture 70 type 055 destroyers or 14 aircraft carriers.
I was expecting something better from you. Chinese trade with the rest of the world goes through the multiple choke points, also takes longer time and transportation costs can be reduced significantly. $58 billion is a peanut in comparison to the benefits Chinese economy will have and it will be a big boost for the Chinese exports security.
You may be able to built 70 055 destroyers but those destroyers will not be the one which will be carrying your exports.
 
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BOT is the best way to go

The problem is the Chines Loan money will not hit SBP reserves.. nor Pakistan pays back to the projects nor has any supervision or accountability ,apart from provideing chowkidar duties to protect Chinese and their assets

Most BRI projects are done by Chinese Companies, bringing material,men and machinery from China and China gets waiver of import duties and taxes. China pays the contractors in Yuan in China and in chines banks. But the costs are billed to Pakistan ..as loan .The Chinese live in their camps with protection .They barely make any impact on local economy as most of them don't spend in Pakistan

In ideal world, big construction projects will have have impact on local economy as most of the material and manpower is sourced locally ,which boost allied construction industry ,logistics/transportation and employment

The railroad /link is more of geopolitical use and economic sense to china than Pakistan !
A 30-40 year BOT is also better because if the railroad is seen as Chinese property, then any attack on it, for example, by India, would be an attack on China, allowing China to respond, and therefore deter India except in the most extreme circumstances.

If it were wholly owned by Pakistan, the Chinese would be pissed but couldn’t justify a military response.

Hopefully in 30-40 years time Pakistan will be able to manage this railroad and maintain it to continue smooth operations. Especially if the route is build in such a way to be parallel to an oil pipeline, and high voltage electric corridor.

Also, if China is footing the bill, they will care how much this project costs, not Pakistan. Pakistan should worry about facilitating it’s swift completion, safety, and how to use the railroad to achieve supplying its cities in the north as well as using it to transport people in the area; troops and tourists.

Furthermore, the sooner it is accepted that Pakistan can not afford to support the cost of this route until it’s economy grows, will mean it can move past negotiations on payment and get on with actually building the route. If a war happens and China needs this route in approx. 4-12 years; 2027 or 2035, the sooner it is built and operational, only then will it be useful.

Reorienting pakistan’s military to guard the CPEC corridors (including the Pak Navy defending the SLOC from Gwadar to the GCC and Djibouti; with only Pakistani ships in Pakistani ports working with PLAN ships out of Djibouti) can be funded from transit revenue from these routes, and pay for the modernization of the military as well for the same purpose.

Finally, if Pakistan is seen taking out a loan to pay for this, for the primary benefit of China as a contingency for a blockade of Chinese trade, while Pakistan’s economy is constantly seeking an IMF bailout, it won’t bode well. But on the other hand if this is seen as an economic investment; FDI, Pakistan can’t be blamed for accepting it.

Even if Pakistan doesn’t directly pay for this, it will need the economy or certain amount of annual military aid to support the acquisition of equipment and manning to protect it. Akin to the $3-4 billion the U.S. gives to Israel annually, but probably isn’t he range of at least $1 billion annually for Pakistan to protect this and the CPEC routes all over the country.

Remember the quote by a Chinese official, that Pakistan is China’s Israel. Aid that should be seen similarly as an investment; that will yield several fold ROI, not only in bogging down India, but in economic terms, as in hundreds of thousands of men to protect this corridor all the way to Gwadar and beyond (via the navy). A stronger and more secure and internally harmonious Pakistan would also make it a safer place for Chinese companies to invest. Investment in this way would also ensure Pakistan would be able to fight any potential defensive war in a conventional manner, thereby also ensuring regional stability.



P.S. a modernized Pakistani freight rail network would also allow Pakistan and China to leverage it to shape some of India’s policies towards their interests, if they want direct access to Central Asia and Europe via Iran (via the Thar express crossing) or Russia (via Lahore crossing). The Indian business community be the way Chinese could appeal to them. This is considering how much india has invested into its dedicated freight corridors and the large population they need to help fund jobs in UP and Bihar.


2nd P.S. the route between Havelian then Attock and finally Gwadar will probably be the alignment along the Indus, not Mainline 1, which is something Pakistan will have to take out a $10 billion loan to finance, and be wholly owned by Pakistan. To this end, a new spur between Dera Ghazi Khan and Quetta could cut the distance of the route considerably and was also the planned route of the IPI; Iran-Pakistan-India oil/gas pipeline. If the IPI is now to be turned into the IPC (Iran-Pakistan-China) pipeline, this route would be the shortest route and be in an area further from the Indian border for more of its route, then the current route down to Sukkur and then north to Attock. Using the route of the N70 road, it would pass through the hill stations of Fort Monro and Ziarat, potentially earning some tourism revenue, and being a place where Pakistanis and Chinese working on the CPEC as well as all tourists to rest and do some recreational activities.
 
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@FuturePAF

Who will China and Pak fight against a war against? Presumably USA. Are you saying that USA will be choke off Chinese exports from the Straits of Malacca but not by a strike at the mountain passes through which this new rail line will pass? or the port at which this new line will meet the Arabian Sea? Have you done any estimate of how much traffic the new railroad can carry

I never get amazed at the kind of analysis which gets into projects like this!

Regards
 
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China already has a more Reliable supply rout via Russia , that knows and can protect its interests.

Pakistan flips on a dime every regime change. Not viable as an investor especially in contested territory.
 
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No mpre damn loans . If china want to make and use then ok . Give us royality and use .

WTF -- more loans... Chinese have been doing this here too. Just dandling carrots in the asses of our politicians - thankfully our late president gave them their own taste of medicine - chinese must prove ROIs ... here they want to build harbours and harbours... for what? They have decimated our local industries by dumping; wait it gets better... tilapia from there is cheaper than what our own fishermen are pulling from lake victoria. WTF.

yajoo majoo are alive...
 
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I hope this line is standard guage and is also owned and operate by the Chinese. If they give it to us, no one will let it happen just like the ML1 thing
 
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It's pure waste of money, but it's just a project for the officials below to flatter the leaders. Geographically speaking, this railway can't be built at all. The Belt and Road Initiative will fail sooner or later, wasting countless Chinese money
 
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The railway lines serves Chinese purposes the most .cos Pakistan does not have major industries that can access railway line to import/export or ship raw/finished materials in bulk that necessities the use of railways to cut costs or time
Why not China build for free ,use it for 30 or 40 yrs and transfer the assets to Pakistan??
China needs a short cuts to access Arabian Sea and Pakistan has to take loan to build it for China ? Is BRI a Pakistan project? Why loan burden on Pakistan ?
Your political elite are used to instant gratification, not long term planning unfortunately.
 
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Your political elite are used to instant gratification, not long term planning unfortunately.
Any infra project is good .But there are priorities.I differed only on the method ..world over BOT /PPP projects are in vogue.For ex: in last 2 decades all major green field airports are constructed and owned by private companies
 
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China-Pakistan railway ‘worth it’ at estimated US$58 billion: study

  • Belt and Road Initiative’s most expensive transport infrastructure project ‘has potential’ to reshape trade and geopolitics
  • The rail link is part of a broader plan to revive ancient Silk Road connections and reduce reliance on Western-dominated routes


Stephen Chen in Beijing
Published: 3:01pm, 27 Apr, 2023

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The China-Pakistan railway – China’s largest Belt and Road Initiative transport project – will cost an estimated 400 billion yuan (US$57.7 billion), but should proceed because of its strategic significance, a government-commissioned feasibility study has found.

The proposed railway, connecting Pakistan’s port of Gwadar to Kashgar in China’s Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, was assessed by scientists from the state-owned China Railway First Survey and Design Institute Group Co Ltd.

The team, led by the institute’s deputy director of capital operations Zhang Ling, said the project was the belt and road plan’s most expensive transport infrastructure.

Despite the cost, the project had the potential to reshape trade and geopolitics across the Eurasian continent and should be supported, the team said in a report published by the Chinese-language journal Railway Transport and Economy in April.

“The government and financial institutions [in China] should provide strong support, increase coordination and collaboration among relevant domestic departments, strive for the injection of support funds and provide strong policy support and guarantees for the construction of this project,” they said.

The institute is one of the largest of its kind in China and has been involved in many major railway projects at home and internationally, including Indonesia’s Jakarta-Bandung high-speed rail line.

The 3,000km (1,860-mile) railway will link China’s western regions with the Arabian Sea, bypassing the Strait of Malacca and reducing dependence on the South China Sea.

Connections with other transport networks – including in Iran and Turkey – would also provide a more direct route to Europe for Chinese goods, while Pakistan is forecast to get a much-needed boost from the improved infrastructure and easier trade with China.

The scheme is a key component of Beijing’s broader belt and road plan to promote economic cooperation and connectivity among the countries along the ancient Silk Road trade routes.

Previous studies by Chinese government researchers have suggested the infrastructure initiative could have significant geopolitical implications, helping to shift the balance of power away from traditional Western-dominated trade routes.

As well as encouraging a more multipolar world order, the belt and road plan could also help to promote economic development and stability in countries along the route by creating jobs, boosting infrastructure investment and increasing trade, the studies said.

Most belt and road transport infrastructure construction projects had received a significant proportion of funding from the host countries, and the scale of investment was much smaller, Zhang and his colleagues noted.

For example, total investment in Kenya’s Mombasa-Nairobi standard gauge railway was US$3.8 billion, with China providing 5 per cent of the funding and Kenya paying for the rest.

The project connects the port city to the Kenyan capital and is part of a larger plan to link East African countries by rail. Similarly, China contributed 30 per cent of the US$4 billion funding for the Addis Ababa-Djibouti rail line in Ethiopia.

China covered 75 per cent of the Jakarta-Bandung high-speed railway’s costs of US$5.9 billion, with Indonesian state-owned enterprises providing the remainder.
But Pakistan is unable to make a similar contribution. Its GDP last year was US$370 billion – just six times the estimated cost of the project.

“Due to energy shortages, poor investment environment and fiscal deficits, Pakistan’s economic growth rate has come under pressure,” the team said.

“In terms of railway investment and construction, Pakistan is unable to provide sufficient financial and material support and mainly relies on Chinese enterprises for investment and construction.”

One reason for the hefty cost is the mountainous and geologically complex terrain along the route. There could be technical challenges to overcome in the construction and operation of the railway, the researchers said.

The project also required supporting infrastructure – such as ports and logistics facilities – that might not be immediately available in Pakistan, they said.

The study said Pakistan’s labour policies could be unpredictable, which could potentially affect the railway’s construction and operating costs.

The team also noted that Pakistan had experienced security challenges in recent years, including in its western region where the railway will pass through. Balochistan province, for instance, has been plagued by separatist violence for decades.

This could potentially disrupt construction and operation of the railway and pose a risk to Chinese workers and investments, the researchers said.

The study also pointed out the railway’s potential impact on neighbouring countries, such as India. With each country having its own priorities and interests, there could be disagreements or delays in decision-making related to the project, it said.

Zhang’s team suggested that a build and transfer (BT) model would provide the best investment and financing strategy for the project.

They considered BT against build-operate-transfer, public-private partnerships, and the engineering, procurement, construction mode that are becoming more popular in belt and road projects.

In the BT model, a contractor would be responsible for designing, building and financing the railway, with payment on completion and ownership transferred to the government or other commissioning entity.

The researchers said BT would allow the risks associated with the railway’s construction and operation to be allocated more effectively between China and Pakistan, potentially reducing the financial risks for both parties.

By ensuring that ownership of the railway was transferred to Pakistan, BT could also help to build trust between China and Pakistan by showing China’s commitment to supporting Pakistan’s long-term economic development, they said.

China and Pakistan have been talking for years about the railway, a crucial part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) that was launched in 2015 and aims to connect Gwadar port to Xinjiang through a network of roads, railways and pipelines.

The researchers said the China-Pakistan relationship was complex, with both countries having different priorities and interests.

Negotiating agreements related to financing, labour policies, and other issues would require careful consideration of each country’s priorities and interests, they said.

In conclusion, Zhang and his team said their recommendation could help to move negotiations forward.

pakistan doesnot need any more loan, we cannot pay them back. and we will not have any reasonable industrial capacity to use it anyway! China should be invited to build it and use it fdor themselves and paying a rent amount back to pakistan is better for both countries!
 
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WTF -- more loans... Chinese have been doing this here too. Just dandling carrots in the asses of our politicians - thankfully our late president gave them their own taste of medicine - chinese must prove ROIs ... here they want to build harbours and harbours... for what? They have decimated our local industries by dumping; wait it gets better... tilapia from there is cheaper than what our own fishermen are pulling from lake victoria. WTF.

yajoo majoo are alive...
Let me tell a joke - Africa also has industries.....

We just hope that Chinese factories can at least teach Tanzanians what honesty is.

 
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This project must go ahead and be built at whatever cost. It will give a huge boost to Pakistan's economy and geostrategies
no it wont. It will be similar to all the road infrastructure build, that has done nothing ! Economies dont pick up due to roads and railways... we pakistanis have to realise that. They pick up from long term policies, stability and above all trust that the country can stand on its own!
 
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