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China may not need Western technology very much longer

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China may not need Western technology very much longer

Huawei was the only Chinese company in the global top 25 for research and development spending five years ago. Companies like ByteDance, Tencent and Alibaba have since joined that group. | REUTERSHuawei was the only Chinese company in the global top 25 for research and development spending five years ago. Companies like ByteDance, Tencent and Alibaba have since joined that group. | REUTERS​

BY JUSTIN FOX
BLOOMBERG


May 1, 2023
Western countries have become increasingly wary of sharing technology with China, with the U.S. and Netherlands recently imposing new restrictions on exports of semiconductors and the equipment used to make them.

Meanwhile, Chinese companies are rising up the list of the world’s biggest spenders on research and development — a sign that perhaps they won’t need that Western technology much longer.

When I last compiled one of these lists five years ago, mobile infrastructure and device maker Huawei Investment & Holding was in sixth place behind Microsoft, just as it is here, but it was the only Chinese company in the global top 25. It has been joined by TikTok owner ByteDance, WeChat owner and gaming giant Tencent Holdings and e-commerce, payments and cloud-computing purveyor Alibaba Group Holding.

The $14.6 billion figure for ByteDance is for 2021 and comes from a report the privately held company shared with employees last year, which the Wall Street Journal reported on in October. The Information reported on April 1 that ByteDance has told investors revenue rose 30% in 2022, so I would guess its 2022 R&D spending would rank even higher.

All the other numbers above come from publicly released financial statements, but companies have a fair amount of leeway in determining what constitutes R&D spending. Amazon.com doesn’t even report it, instead including a line in its income statements for “technology and content” that is probably mostly R&D but is opaque.

In 2017 and 2018, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission sent a series of letters to Amazon pressing it to report R&D as other companies do but backed down after Amazon argued that “our business model encourages the simultaneous research, design, development and maintenance of both new and existing products and services” and that separating out just the R&D would be hard to do and meaningless to its investors.

It is possible that some other privately held company is spending more on R&D than No. 25 Bayerische Motoren Werke’s $7.5 billion, but unlikely. Huawei is employee-owned but releases an annual report, as does foundation-and-family-owned German auto-parts maker Robert Bosch, which spent $6.7 billion in 2022, good for 34th place. (Like other European and Japanese companies, it would be higher in a dollar-denominated ranking like this if the euro and yen were stronger.) Among the world’s other biggest private companies, most don’t seem to report their R&D spending, but most also don’t fit the profile of a big R&D spender.

That profile involves being in tech, pharmaceuticals or auto manufacturing. This has been true for decades. The number of tech companies has grown, with relative newcomers Amazon, Google parent Alphabet and Facebook parent Meta Platforms now occupying the top three spots and most of the Chinese companies new to the list. But when I found a top 20 ranking from 2004, compiled by Booz Allen Hamilton from Bloomberg data, I was struck by how many familiar names it contained.

Of the companies listed here that aren’t in the current top 25, all but one remain in the top 50, with Matsushita Electric successor Panasonic Holdings 61st. The combined R&D spending of Mercedes-Benz Group and Stellantis, the products (with the addition of Fiat) of the 2007 DaimlerChrysler breakup, would put it in 16th place. Also, if you’re wondering where semiconductor industry leader Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing fits in to all this, it comes in 41st in R&D but fourth in capital spending, behind only Amazon, Samsung Electronics and Saudi Arabian Oil.

One thing that has changed since 2004 is how much further ahead of the pack the top spenders are. Leaving Amazon and its unique accounting aside, current No. 2 Alphabet is spending more than four times as much on R&D as No. 20 Bristol-Myers Squibb. In 2004, No. 1 Microsoft spent less than twice as much as No. 20 Merck.

Most of the top automakers are spending similar amounts on R&D, adjusted for inflation, as in 2004. The exceptions are Volkswagen and BMW, which are spending substantially more, and Ford Motor, which is spending a third less. Pharma companies are generally spending a lot more, but the most spectacular increases have been in tech, among what I guess we should start calling the MAAAM companies (others have suggested MAMAA, but they’re wrong), for Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Alphabet and Meta.

With the exception of Apple, these companies’ R&D spending is going toward inventing and improving not so much physical products as algorithms, artificial-intelligence systems and the like — which goes for Chinese counterparts ByteDance, Tencent and Alibaba as well. In the U.S., most of these companies have been announcing big layoffs lately, but the effect on their R&D spending is so far barely discernible.

For the companies themselves, these huge increases in R&D spending could be of limited value. A 2020 study by accounting scholars from the University of Washington and University of Texas found that while there was once a strong relationship between R&D expenditure and future profitability, it has become much weaker since the 1990s. For national and regional economies, the evidence still points to a payoff in terms of productivity gains and growth, although it’s too early to know whether this will be true for the R&D boom of the past few years. If it is, it looks as if the U.S. and China are best positioned to benefit.

 
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Americunts decided to cut off supply, but the demand is still there. Somebody will fill it in.

Chinese semiconductor firms could not keep up with US before the restrictions in 2018, because their products were both inferior in price point and performance. Americunt chips were 3 to 4 generations ahead so they made massive revenue from China which kept their R&D funding high. US government singlehandedly broke the virtuous development cycle and gave room for Chinese companies to breath. Now that Chinese companies have the domestic market to themselves, they're entering into the virtuous development cycle.

Instead of having China dependent on them, they made a competitor out of China.
 
Americunts decided to cut off supply, but the demand is still there. Somebody will fill it in.

Chinese semiconductor firms could not keep up with US before the restrictions in 2018, because their products were both inferior in price point and performance. Americunt chips were 3 to 4 generations ahead so they made massive revenue from China which kept their R&D funding high. US government singlehandedly broke the virtuous development cycle and gave room for Chinese companies to breath. Now that Chinese companies have the domestic market to themselves, they're entering into the virtuous development cycle.

Instead of having China dependent on them, they made a competitor out of China.
I sense anger in your post.. :lol:
 

China may not need Western technology very much longer

Huawei was the only Chinese company in the global top 25 for research and development spending five years ago. Companies like ByteDance, Tencent and Alibaba have since joined that group. | REUTERSHuawei was the only Chinese company in the global top 25 for research and development spending five years ago. Companies like ByteDance, Tencent and Alibaba have since joined that group. | REUTERS​

BY JUSTIN FOX
BLOOMBERG


May 1, 2023
Western countries have become increasingly wary of sharing technology with China, with the U.S. and Netherlands recently imposing new restrictions on exports of semiconductors and the equipment used to make them.

Meanwhile, Chinese companies are rising up the list of the world’s biggest spenders on research and development — a sign that perhaps they won’t need that Western technology much longer.

When I last compiled one of these lists five years ago, mobile infrastructure and device maker Huawei Investment & Holding was in sixth place behind Microsoft, just as it is here, but it was the only Chinese company in the global top 25. It has been joined by TikTok owner ByteDance, WeChat owner and gaming giant Tencent Holdings and e-commerce, payments and cloud-computing purveyor Alibaba Group Holding.

The $14.6 billion figure for ByteDance is for 2021 and comes from a report the privately held company shared with employees last year, which the Wall Street Journal reported on in October. The Information reported on April 1 that ByteDance has told investors revenue rose 30% in 2022, so I would guess its 2022 R&D spending would rank even higher.

All the other numbers above come from publicly released financial statements, but companies have a fair amount of leeway in determining what constitutes R&D spending. Amazon.com doesn’t even report it, instead including a line in its income statements for “technology and content” that is probably mostly R&D but is opaque.

In 2017 and 2018, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission sent a series of letters to Amazon pressing it to report R&D as other companies do but backed down after Amazon argued that “our business model encourages the simultaneous research, design, development and maintenance of both new and existing products and services” and that separating out just the R&D would be hard to do and meaningless to its investors.

It is possible that some other privately held company is spending more on R&D than No. 25 Bayerische Motoren Werke’s $7.5 billion, but unlikely. Huawei is employee-owned but releases an annual report, as does foundation-and-family-owned German auto-parts maker Robert Bosch, which spent $6.7 billion in 2022, good for 34th place. (Like other European and Japanese companies, it would be higher in a dollar-denominated ranking like this if the euro and yen were stronger.) Among the world’s other biggest private companies, most don’t seem to report their R&D spending, but most also don’t fit the profile of a big R&D spender.

That profile involves being in tech, pharmaceuticals or auto manufacturing. This has been true for decades. The number of tech companies has grown, with relative newcomers Amazon, Google parent Alphabet and Facebook parent Meta Platforms now occupying the top three spots and most of the Chinese companies new to the list. But when I found a top 20 ranking from 2004, compiled by Booz Allen Hamilton from Bloomberg data, I was struck by how many familiar names it contained.

Of the companies listed here that aren’t in the current top 25, all but one remain in the top 50, with Matsushita Electric successor Panasonic Holdings 61st. The combined R&D spending of Mercedes-Benz Group and Stellantis, the products (with the addition of Fiat) of the 2007 DaimlerChrysler breakup, would put it in 16th place. Also, if you’re wondering where semiconductor industry leader Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing fits in to all this, it comes in 41st in R&D but fourth in capital spending, behind only Amazon, Samsung Electronics and Saudi Arabian Oil.

One thing that has changed since 2004 is how much further ahead of the pack the top spenders are. Leaving Amazon and its unique accounting aside, current No. 2 Alphabet is spending more than four times as much on R&D as No. 20 Bristol-Myers Squibb. In 2004, No. 1 Microsoft spent less than twice as much as No. 20 Merck.

Most of the top automakers are spending similar amounts on R&D, adjusted for inflation, as in 2004. The exceptions are Volkswagen and BMW, which are spending substantially more, and Ford Motor, which is spending a third less. Pharma companies are generally spending a lot more, but the most spectacular increases have been in tech, among what I guess we should start calling the MAAAM companies (others have suggested MAMAA, but they’re wrong), for Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Alphabet and Meta.

With the exception of Apple, these companies’ R&D spending is going toward inventing and improving not so much physical products as algorithms, artificial-intelligence systems and the like — which goes for Chinese counterparts ByteDance, Tencent and Alibaba as well. In the U.S., most of these companies have been announcing big layoffs lately, but the effect on their R&D spending is so far barely discernible.

For the companies themselves, these huge increases in R&D spending could be of limited value. A 2020 study by accounting scholars from the University of Washington and University of Texas found that while there was once a strong relationship between R&D expenditure and future profitability, it has become much weaker since the 1990s. For national and regional economies, the evidence still points to a payoff in terms of productivity gains and growth, although it’s too early to know whether this will be true for the R&D boom of the past few years. If it is, it looks as if the U.S. and China are best positioned to benefit.

I know you, but you do not know me. I am looking forward to seeing China as the world's largest economy.

Then nobody will give a damn for the americunts.
 
The American team that beats the Chinese team :p:
 

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Of course. The Chinese will soon able to invent all new technologies all by themselves. So smart! :D
I wonder if this means they will put themselves behind a curtain, no more industrial espionage, no more professors overseas spying, no more students in the west, no more reading of scientific papers and participating in peer reviews.......

in other words... become god almighty?
 
I wonder if this means they will put themselves behind a curtain, no more industrial espionage, no more professors overseas spying, no more students in the west, no more reading of scientific papers and participating in peer reviews.......

in other words... become god almighty?
What kind of smoke do Tanzanian little monkeys smoke?


Of course. The Chinese will soon able to invent all new technologies all by themselves. So smart! :D

Why are you so excited? Do you also smoke Tanzanian marijuana?

it says more about you than 'that country'

Do you mean Australia or Pakistan?
 
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