China latest fighter engine is here, WS10TVC Thrust Vector Control turbofan engine official unveil

[beijingwalker]

China latest fighter engine is here, WS10TVC Thrust Vector Control turbofan engine official unveil​

 

[beijingwalker]

How good are the Chinese engines?

That’s probably the biggest question mark in an overall more than unconfirmed and often speculative topic. Yes, they had issues with the early WS-10-series of engines, but at least since 2009 no new-built Chinese Flanker – with the exception of the carrier-borne J-15s – is using Russian AL-31F engines and as such, since the crash rate is at least not an issue discussed in the public – comparable to several crashes of J-1A fighters related to failures of the AL-31FN – it seems to be stable, reliable and powerful enough. Especially since from mid-2019 on also all J-10C and J-20A are using variants of the WS-10 Taihang, it seems to be reliable enough for operational use. Any technical data and especially failure rate or lifecycle are speculative but said to be better than the Russian ones.

What we know about Chinese Flankers – Andreas Rupprecht

The formidable J-11D Russia’s T-10 family, known in the west as the ‘Flanker’ series, is a heavyweight fighter aircraft range that forms the core of the Chinese air and naval air-…

hushkit.net

 

[beijingwalker]

Just a couple of years ago, almost every non Chinese in PDF laughed and claimed that China can't make jet engines, China is an action nation, we know talking big and arguing are pointless, we just act and get things done, in a short span of a couple of years, now we had almost all Chinese planes fitted with various advanced and reliable domestic engines.

 

[beijingwalker]

China exhibits fighter jet engine with 2D thrust vectoring control nozzle
Global Times

Published: Nov 10, 2022 09:09 PM Updated: Nov 10, 2022 10:40 PM

A Taihang engine with a 2D thrust vectoring nozzle is on display at the Airshow China 2022 held in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province from November 8 to 13, 2022. Photo: Cao Siqi/GT

China for the first time exhibited a turbofan engine with a 2D thrust vectoring control nozzle at the ongoing Airshow China 2022 held in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, with experts saying on Thursday that such an engine could provide aircraft, particularly fighter jets, with enhanced maneuverability and stealth capability, and it reflects the rapid development of China's aero engine sector overall.

Five variants of the Taihang series turbofan engines are on display at the air show, and the Global Times learned from the state-owned Aero Engine Corp of China (AECC) that the Taihang engine has kept receiving improvements and upgrades, and its performance, reliability, safety, stealth capability, power extraction, environmental adaptability, endurance and thrust vectoring -- among other factors -- have all received technical boosts. This is expected to comprehensively enhance the aircraft's survivability and combat capabilities, and it has realized the complete independent support of domestically developed engines.

The five Taihang engines are used on different aircraft, according to AECC.

One of the five Taihang engines on display has a 2D thrust vectoring control nozzle, which attracted attention from visitors.

Thrust vectoring control can greatly enhance the maneuverability of an aircraft, usually a fighter jet, by providing thrust directly to a desired direction in addition to using aerodynamics, and this will give the aircraft many tactical advantages in combat, Wei Dongxu, a Chinese military expert, told the Global Times at the Airshow China site.

An aero engine with a thrust vectoring control nozzle is mechanically and structurally more complex than an engine without one, and this means that thrust vectoring control usually causes a certain level of thrust loss. A 2D nozzle could lose even more thrust than a 3D nozzle. China's development of a turbofan engine with a 2D thrust vectoring control nozzle means the engine has sufficient power that it can manage the loss of some thrust, Wei said.

A 2D nozzle usually has better radar and infrared stealth capability than a 3D nozzle, and that makes the 2D nozzle a generally better option, if the engine itself can provide enough power, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese military aviation expert, told the Global Times.

Li Gang, the pilot of the J-20 stealth fighter jet's first flight, said in a media interview in 2021 that he would like to see the J-20 be upgraded with engines with 2D thrust vectoring nozzles.

At Airshow China 2018, a J-10B thrust vector control demonstrator equipped with an engine with 3D thrust vectoring control nozzle delivered a flight performance. An engine with a 3D thrust vectoring control nozzle was also on display this year as one of the five Taihang variants.

AECC also displayed for the first time the AEF1300, a turbofan engine with high thrust, high bypass ratio and low fuel consumption. It is expected to meet the demands of China's large aircraft.

As drones are coming to play some main roles in modern warfare, AECC also put a type of low-cost turbojet engine on display. As future warfare may require high-speed swarm drones and target drones, this engine's production cost is lower than 100,000 yuan ($13,800).

China exhibits fighter jet engine with 2D thrust vectoring control nozzle - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[Ali_Baba]

Just a couple of years ago, almost every non Chinese in PDF laughed and claimed that China can't make jet engines, China is an action nation, we know talking big and arguing are pointless, we just act and get things done, in a short span of a couple of years, now we had almost all Chinese planes fitted with various advanced and reliable domestic engines.

Yes - China is making engines, but it is a stretch to say they are advanced or reliable given that this no information available on the service lives, mtbo etc ....

maybe they are advanced and reliable - maybe they are not - no one knows!

 

[beijingwalker]

Yes - China is making engines, but it is a stretch to say they are advanced or reliable given that this no information available on the service lives, mtbo etc ....

maybe they are advanced and reliable - maybe they are not - no one knows!

These engines had been developed and tested for many years, a jet can be worth tens of millions, do you think China will risk losing a good number of those highly costly jets by fitting all types of Chinese planes with home made engines if they are not reliable? using common sense instead of western median teaching please.

 

[Beast]

Yes - China is making engines, but it is a stretch to say they are advanced or reliable given that this no information available on the service lives, mtbo etc ....

maybe they are advanced and reliable - maybe they are not - no one knows!

PAF wouldnt accept J-10 with WS-10 if its not advanced and unreliable.

 

[My-Analogous]

These engines had been developed and tested for many years, a jet can be worth tens of millions, do you think China will risk losing a good number of those highly costly jets by fitting all types of Chinese planes with home made engines if they are not reliable? using common sense instead of western median teaching please.

No worries, after 20 years they beg China to give her jet engines. Trust me

 

[Ali_Baba]

These engines had been developed and tested for many years, a jet can be worth tens of millions, do you think China will risk losing a good number of those highly costly jets by fitting all types of Chinese planes with home made engines if they are not reliable? using common sense instead of western median teaching please.

No - that implication is incorrect - for all we know and quite probably - China is swapping out engines after only a few hundreds hours of usage for new engines compared to thousands you would expect from a western engine.

Saying there have been no crashes does not equate to reliability without knowing the service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals of the chinese engines.

PAF wouldnt accept J-10 with WS-10 if its not advanced and unreliable.

PAF accepted the Fantan jets, whose airframe had to be stripped apart and put together again at under 200hrs of flying .... PAF accepts what it needs and accepts the constraints which come with the platform. Was the Fantan jet "advanced or reliable?" because PAF accepted them?

PAF will retire F7s before much older Mirage III/Vs will be retired. Does the induction of F7's makie them advanced and reliable aswell just because PAF accepted them?

PAF accepts what it needs and accepts the constraints which come with the platform.

PAF purchased J10CE's after waiting for many years for more F16s and finally concluding that the era of the F16 will come to an end in the PAF and that no new F16s will join the PAF ..

Chinese engines will only become adavanced and reliable when the "figures" for procurement costs, fuel consumption rates, thrust, service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals of the chinese engines are comparable to western engines.. China has not published these values for its engines - you have to wonder - why ???????? It is because they compare poorly with western engines otherwise the Chinese would be shouting about them from the roof tops now....

 

[beijingwalker]

No - that implication is incorrect - for all we know and quite probably - China is swapping out engines after only a few hundreds hours of usage compared to thousands you would expect from a western engine.

Saying there have been no crashes does not equate to reliability without knowing the service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals of the engines.

Who told you that? those engines had been tested for a decade, in early trial stage, they had been fitted with just a couple of planes and with the support of imported engines , but not in later stage and definitely not now when every new jet is fitted with them, if planes crashed you lose hundreds of millions and you have no time to swap them out when accidents happen, try to use common sense instead of western brainwashed mentality.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Who told you that? those engines had been tested for a decade, in early trial stage, they had been fitted with just a couple of planes and with the support of imported engines , but not in later stage and definitely not now when every new jet is fitted with them, if planes crashed you lose hundreds of millions and you have no time to swap them out when accidents happen, try to use common sense instead of western brainwashed mentality.

No brain washed mentality here - just a quantitiative approach to information ... I dont buy propaganda - be it Chinese or western....

My points still remain on the table - you need to provide real quantitative information to substantiate your claims that Chinese engines are advanced and reliable or comparable to western engines as of now.

The metrics for this are : procurement costs, fuel consumption rates, thrust, service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals

China has not published these, as China is afraid to - the engines will compare poorly to western engines, and are most likely inferior to Russian engines still...

 

[beijingwalker]

China has not published these, as China is afraid to - the engines will compare poorly to western engines, and are most likely inferior to Russian engines still...

You've already made up your mind, then no one can help you

F-35s Struggle To Fly! Frustrated South Korea Says Its US-Origin Stealth Fighters Marred By Defects

South Korea's lawmakers stated that the nation's F-35 A stealth fighter jets were labeled as operationally unready 234 times over 18 month

eurasiantimes.com

 

[Ali_Baba]

You've already made up your mind, then no one can help you

F-35s Struggle To Fly! Frustrated South Korea Says Its US-Origin Stealth Fighters Marred By Defects

South Korea's lawmakers stated that the nation's F-35 A stealth fighter jets were labeled as operationally unready 234 times over 18 month

eurasiantimes.com

Nope - just want clinical quantitative information.

I will rightly challenge any "China is best at everything" cheerleader who cannot provide anything to back up their claims ...

I really would like to see the following, and i will assure you if they are comparable - i will be more excited than you : procurement costs, fuel consumption rates, thrust, service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals for new Chinese engines....

 

[beijingwalker]

Nope - just want clinical quantitative information.

I will rightly challenge any "China is best at everything" cheerleader who cannot provide anything to back up their claims ...

I really would like to see the following, and i will assure you if they are comparable - i will be more excited than you : procurement costs, fuel consumption rates, thrust, service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals for new Chinese engines....

You can check online to see if they are disclosed, I have no time and interest to dig for all small details, so let's agree to disagree.

 

[Beast]

No - that implication is incorrect - for all we know and quite probably - China is swapping out engines after only a few hundreds hours of usage for new engines compared to thousands you would expect from a western engine.

Saying there have been no crashes does not equate to reliability without knowing the service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals of the chinese engines.



PAF accepted the Fantan jets, whose airframe had to be stripped apart and put together again at under 200hrs of flying .... PAF accepts what it needs and accepts the constraints which come with the platform. Was the Fantan jet "advanced or reliable?" because PAF accepted them?

PAF will retire F7s before much older Mirage III/Vs will be retired. Does the induction of F7's makie them advanced and reliable aswell just because PAF accepted them?

PAF accepts what it needs and accepts the constraints which come with the platform.

PAF purchased J10CE's after waiting for many years for more F16s and finally concluding that the era of the F16 will come to an end in the PAF and that no new F16s will join the PAF ..

Chinese engines will only become adavanced and reliable when the "figures" for procurement costs, fuel consumption rates, thrust, service life, maintenance and MTBO intervals of the chinese engines are comparable to western engines.. China has not published these values for its engines - you have to wonder - why ???????? It is because they compare poorly with western engines otherwise the Chinese would be shouting about them from the roof tops now....

You are talking about in the 80 and early 90s where quantity are key, rugged but easy to operate are the key. Long lifespan are not required. Even US F-5 has poor airframe and low tech but cheap to operate during those times? What is the issue?

Fantan was retired early becos its twin engine are more extensive to operate now compare to Mirage IV and F-7PG.

and you think PAF in 2022 will accept a modern fighter jet that need to be stripped down every 200 hrs for maintenace? You analogy is nothing but a massive failure! Or you are trying to imply PAF evaluation are a bunch of unprofessional team who dont know how to properly evaluate a military hardware properly?