China Introduces Sweeping FDI Reforms

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @Edison Chen

Staggering that the value of competition is being questioned in this day and age. I wonder when the detractors will call for China to close its borders to imports, since competition is so destructive.

@Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @Edison Chen

Staggering that the value of competition is being questioned in this day and age. I wonder when the detractors will call for China to close its borders to imports, since competition is so destructive.

It was this kind of "thinking" that led to China's downfall during the middle of the Ming Dynasty, yet again during the Qing Dynasty.

History proves that during China's greatest Dynasties, it was integrated with regional trade. Such as during the Han Dynasty, the Song Dynasty, the Tang Dynasty, the early Ming Dynasty.

It was during closed door policies that China became weak and lagged behind. I hope that Chinese CPC will never allow such narrow mindedness take root in its society ever again.

 

[TaiShang]

@Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @Edison Chen

Staggering that the value of competition is being questioned in this day and age. I wonder when the detractors will call for China to close its borders to imports, since competition is so destructive.

Competition is fine. But, as a regulated economy, strategic sectors remains national and certain other sectors, such as auto and health care, are being further regularized with foreign investment is further being restricted.

What matters, at the end of the day, is the interests of the country.

Hence, as opposed to what you imply, there is no an overall worship of any ideology (modern or archaic, does not matter); or absolute favoring of one against the other. It is just a pragmatic application of what works and what does not.

These policies will be further changed and revised, back and forward as the situation requires.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Competition is fine. But, as a regulated economy, strategic sectors remains national and certain other sectors, such as auto and health care, are being further regularized with foreign investment is further being restricted.

What matters, at the end of the day, is the interests of the country.

Hence, as opposed to what you imply, there is no an overall worship of any ideology (modern or archaic, does not matter); or absolute favoring of one against the other. It is just a pragmatic application of what works and what does not.

These policies will be further changed and revised, back and forward as the situation requires.

I'm all for that. Even the US has CFIUS reviews for foreign acquisitions of US assets to make sure that strategically significant assets remain in the hands of friendly powers. If China needs to restrict access for national security reasons, you will find no objections from me.

Beyond national security, though, one has to ask: who is benefiting from restrictions on competition? The Chinese people, or those who control the corporations that benefit from this protectionism? Can we agree that there should be a time limit on protecting infant industries in order to enable them to become globally competitive, after which time, let the best product win?

 

[TaiShang]

Beyond national security, though, one has to ask: who is benefiting from restrictions on competition? The Chinese people, or those who control the corporations that benefit from this protectionism?

The Chinese nation. If it does not, the policy will change.

Can we agree that there should be a time limit on protecting infant industries in order to enable them to become globally competitive, after which time, let the best product win?

In some cases, yes. But, in other cases where competition does not really matter since the national companies enjoy leadership in tech and market access, there is no reason for opening up.

 

[Edison Chen]

@Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @Edison Chen

Staggering that the value of competition is being questioned in this day and age. I wonder when the detractors will call for China to close its borders to imports, since competition is so destructive.

Yeah, so far China has already got through this and benefited quite a lot from huge trade surplus, once it got started, it means we can never turn back. It's coward and unwise thinking to avoid competition and close door. Chinese companies are making reforms on ownership and incentive system and learning advanced corporate management experience from others, to improve the competitiveness from inside. Besides, China can offer better products than before as well. Like some electronic products and the whole set of train system.

If we close our doors like we did in the past, the other countries would do the same thing to us, millions of Chinese export companies will break down, then followed by serious fiscal problems. This is mutual exchange, as we promised foreign capital the entry into China's market, they will also make Chinese companies more convenient to invest in their countries. People can't be too selfish, you want something, you have to give something for exchange.

They made some good points as well. Take China's automobile industry for example, it's too early to let foreign capital in, China's own manufacturers can't do anything to save their land. But we can't blame this all for others, internal cause is the key problem, some senior officials like to sit in luxury cars as early as possible!

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

If we close our doors like we did in the past, the other countries would do the same thing to us, millions of Chinese export companies will break down, then followed by serious fiscal problems. This is mutual exchange, as we promised foreign capital the entry into China's market, they will also make Chinese companies more convenient to invest in their countries. People can't be too selfish, you want something, you have to give something for exchange.

Why can Japan do it, why can the US do it, and we can't? Why do Chinese have to be held to a different standard?

If they want to block our exports, who is hurt the most? Do they expect no escalation? Who can most afford escalation, who can least afford escalation? If you back down once, who's to say that's the first time, or last time?

 

[Keel]

How some fools here are saying we are against competitions? That is absolutely nuts
We are against unchecked competitions especially in areas when we are immature to compete
Who is answering the questions below?

If an open market is so good for China, why China did not do the same 30 years ago?
If an open market is so good for China, why do we not open all up in our football league for foreign football players?
If an open market is so good for China, why our auto industry lags further behind foreign brands the more we open up?
If we are only a maturing 15 years old why we have to inject steroids into our systems and let the 15-year-old fight 30 year-olds imagining he could be the Champ beating the adults
The areas in which we are very good at are now facing a foul game-plan on us: HQ-9; Huawei, HSR-Mexico ...while the areas in which we are developing/lagging behind we are going to open them up unchecked

Please read the following when we are completely open to competition:

国产轿车市场份额首次跌破20% 创5年新低 |国产车|自主品牌|反垄断_新浪财经_新浪网

国产汽车“强国”仍在做梦_腾讯财经_腾讯网

Can we use legislation to reverse the losing grounds in the above situations? I very much doubt it

Do you as Chinese want to establish companies with "Brand Names" that you have an absolute saying of where to sell your products and sell them well? of how to reward your employees or how much to spend in R & D?

 

[Edison Chen]

Why can Japan do it, why can the US do it, and we can't? Why do Chinese have to be held to a different standard?

You are too naive....Japan is Japan, U.S. is U.S., China is China...different country, different rule....such an easy thing....Even 7 year old kid knows the difference. Developed countries export capital and high technology, which is what China need, especially in the past two decades.

You think you are smarter than Chinese leadership? Can't believe even today, the year 2014, there is still people question such an old issue, it surprises me!

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You are too naive....Japan is Japan, U.S. is U.S., China is China...different country, different rule....such an easy thing....Even 7 year old kid knows the difference. Developed countries export capital and high technology, which is what China need, especially in the past two decades.

You think you are smarter than Chinese leadership? Can't believe even today, the year 2014, there is still people question such an old issue, it surprises me!

So you have absolutely no confidence that Chinese can figure things out themselves or get things we need, without having the negative side effects. OK. When Japan was even poorer, relatively, than China today, they still had closed markets. Why? South Korea isn't significantly richer, yet they also have closed markets. On the contrary, Somalia and other failed states have such open markets that the market is unable to protect the participants from fluctuations in grain price, such that a small change causes starvation.

Why am I not allowed to question this issue? It is an old issue that is brought up again and again - therefore it might mean that it is pretty important. There are some sectors that should be protected, some that shouldn't be.

 

[Edison Chen]

When Japan was even poorer, relatively, than China today, they still had closed markets. Why?

Which period of time? Pre-Minji Reform or earlier than that? Japan was once forcefully to open its door by the U.S. in 1853, sounds familiar with what the British had done to China? You thought Japan just implemented the reform all by itself? Wrong. Also please note, in 1860s, the world economy was not that highly interdependent or closely connected like today. At that time, the Westerns were during the capital accumulation period, their primary aim was to rob the resources and obtain the capital, not to spend capital or transfer technology.

Meiji Reform

For over two centuries Japan had been closed to all foreigners until American warships forced Japan, in 1854, to open her ports to foreign trade.

During the Meji period (1868 -1912) the feudal system was abolished, and Western ideas and business contacts gained wide acceptance.

The Western powers — Europe and the United States — had forced Japan to sign treaties that limited its control over its own foreign trade and required that crimes concerning foreigners in Japan be tried not in Japanese but in Western courts.

美国海军准将马休·佩里（MatthewCalbraithPerry）率领舰队进入江户（今东京）岸的浦贺，把美国总统米勒德·菲尔莫尔写给日本天皇的信交给了德川幕府，要求同日本建立外交关系和进行贸易。史称“黑船事件”（亦称“黑船开国”）。1854年，日本与美国签订了神奈川《日美亲善条约》，又名《神奈川条约》，同意向美国开放除长崎外的下田和箱馆（函馆）两个港口，并给予美国最惠国待遇等。

社会文化方面，提倡学习西方社会文化及习惯，翻译西方著作。

此外亦选派留学生到英、美、法、德等先进国家留学。

1871年，明治政府派出以右大臣岩仓具视为首的大型使节团出访欧美，考察资本主义国家制度。在富国强兵、殖产兴业、文明开化的口号下，政府积极引进西方科学技术，以高征地税等手段进行大规模原始积累，建立了一批以军工、矿山、铁路、航运为重点的国营企业。

 

[Edison Chen]

Why am I not allowed to question this issue? It is an old issue that is brought up again and again - therefore it might mean that it is pretty important. There are some sectors that should be protected, some that shouldn't be.

Did I say open all sectors without any restrictions immediately right now?> China has been quite cautious about the process of open and reform, unlike the Russians. China opened several cities or regions after 1978, then in 1993, China opened all inland cities and established socialist market economy. China carried out this reform slowly with planned procedures.

 

[William Hung]

Hohohohohohoho

Hey Chinese members, have you heard about the US-Japan TPP negotiation dispute? what are they fighting about?

Don't tell me this honorary Viet is smarter than yous.

hehehehe

If you suspect any member of false flagging, then ask them to do what I did, and show their documents to the site administrator Horus over webcam.

That will prove their nationality, and by their face and name their ethnicity. It can easily be double checked, by sending a still image of the document to their government and asking if the face/name/citizenship match their records, i.e. "is it a forgery" (something employers often have to do). And no one can change their face

Then how come someone (which I shall not name, hehehe) showed pictures of two completely different faces, and still got away with it?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Which period of time? Pre-Minji Reform or earlier than that? Japan was once forcefully to open its door by the U.S. in 1853, sounds familiar with what the British had done to China? You thought Japan just implemented the reform all by itself? Wrong. Also please note, in 1860s, the world economy was not that highly interdependent or closely connected like today. At that time, the Westerns were during the capital accumulation period, their primary aim was to rob the resources and obtain the capital, not to spend capital or transfer technology.

No, 1950's and 60's, when Japan's economy was the only manufacturing economy in east Asia. They still had closed markets - that does not mean they did not participate in international markets, but it meant that their domestic markets were protected and exporters supported.

 

[bolo]

If an open market is so good for China, why China did not do the same 30 years ago?
If an open market is so good for China, why do we not open all up in our football league for foreign football players?
If an open market is so good for China, why our auto industry lags further behind foreign brands the more we open up?
If we are only a maturing 15 years old why we have to inject steroids into our systems and let the 15-year-old fight 30 year-olds imagining he could be the Champ beating the adults
The areas in which we are very good at are now facing a foul game-plan on us: HQ-9; Huawei, HSR-Mexico ...while the areas in which we are developing/lagging behind we are going to open them up unchecked

Exactly. Chinese Dragon and others like to make me anti China because I happen to disagree with CPC on this issue. Just because China has a handful of big international companies some deluded Chinese think they can compete with the full force of US , Japan and western Europe in an economic battle. Interesting times indeed.

Good luck to these folks.

 

[Edison Chen]

No, 1950's and 60's, when Japan's economy was the only manufacturing economy in east Asia. They still had closed markets - that does not mean they did not participate in international markets, but it meant that their domestic markets were protected and exporters supported.

No, after WW2, Japan received huge subsidiary from the US. And it is impossible not to participate intel market.

第三,给日本垄断资本以直接的经济“援助”和“贷款”,启动日本工业。为了解决日本垄断企业资金困难的问题,从1947年至1951年,美国连续给日本拨款。1947年政府建立1.35亿美元的“被占领的日本输出入周转基金”。1948年国会建立1.5亿美元的“自然纤维周转基金”,资助日本进口美国棉花以刺激日本纺织业生产。1948年至1949年又拨.1.65亿美元的“占领地区经济复兴援助”。美国通过“占领地区救济基金”和“占领地区经济复兴基金”,用剩余小麦、棉花等物质向日本提供了总额为21.23亿美元的经济援助。据统计,1945—1951年间,日本政府从美国政府获取上述“基金”达21.28亿美元。道奇路线实施后,原“占领地区救济基金”和“占领地区经济复兴基金”改为“美元对等资金”,成为美国对日本的贷款,数额共计8.6亿美元。该对等资金虽在1953年被取消,但1954年和1955年,美国政府又向日本提供了2.16亿美元的“援助”和贷款。1958年6月底前,美国政府还通过华盛顿进出口银行和由美国控制的世界银行,向日本提供了2.5亿美元的贷款。据不完全统计,美国从1945年—1969年间向国外提供用于发展经济合作为军援的贷款、赠款总数大约为1380亿美元,而日本得到其中的40多亿。此外,在美国政府的支持和鼓励下,美国资本家的私人资本也源源不断地进入日本,成为日本经济发展的“及时雨”。

据统计,从1951年到1952年,日本接受美国朝鲜战场的“特需”订货就达24亿美元。日本国内的各类工厂一起开工,生产的枪炮弹药、煤炭、卡车、汽油桶、钢材、毛毯、棉布、麻袋、干电池等军用物资,源源不断地运往朝鲜战场。日本还向美军提供了大量的劳务服务,包括汽车和机械修理、运输、仓库保管、电报电话等等。“特需”不仅为日本提供了销售市场,而且获得大量的外汇,刺激了日本经济发展。日本的外汇储备,1949年末只有2亿美元,1952年末增加到11.4亿美元,三年内增加了5倍。1952年的“特需收入”相当于出口换汇收入的63.7%。此外,由于侵朝美军紧急采购补充物资,日本国内在道奇路线下积压的1000至1500亿日元的庞大物资,在特需之下,立即销售一空。

最后,朝鲜特需直接刺激了危机中的日本工矿业的发展,为20万人创造了就业机会。1950年6月至1954年,美国为朝鲜战争以及有关物资在日本花费近30亿美元。日本从美国获得的“特需收入”是5.9亿美元,1952年为8.2亿美元,1953年是8.1亿美元。据统计,1952年日本总出口额为12.7亿美元,外汇收入为22.4亿美元,国民生产总值为174亿美元;而同年的“特需收入”在上述数额中所占的比重分别为64.6%、36.6%和4.7%。可见,美国通过“特需订货”不仅扩大了日本的销售市场,刺激了日本工业的发展,而且是日本获得大量的特需收入,扩大了资本积累,这对经济的迅速发展显然是非常重要的。

美国的日本出口值从1951年的6.95亿美元增加到1960年的15.54亿美元,占日本进口的34.6%。另一方面,随着日本经济的恢复和发展,美国逐渐成为日本产品的主要市场。50年代,日本对美输出的产品主要为生丝、丝织品和棉织品。进入50年代后,日本对美国的出口增长很快,输出值从1951年的1.85亿美元增加到1960年的11.02亿美元,分别占日本输出的13.6%和27.2%。此外,战后初期日本的科技水平比美国落后20—30年,所以日本大量引进美国的先进科技,到60年代初,日本与美国科技水平差距已缩短为10—15年。日本大规模输入美国的资本和科技,一方面使自己成为美国的资本和技术市场,使美国大发横财;另一方面也促进了日本经济的迅速发展。

二战后日本在美国扶植下的经济复兴 - 金东方留学网－愿为您的出国留学提供及时准确的出国信息和指导

Japan already regained control over its trade through Meiji Reform in 1910s, Japan's domestic market has solid condition. But Japan still received tech and cash aid from the US. I watched a CCTV history program, it said Japan received worth more than $200 billion technology transfer from the US. China is different, we are being treated as enemies of the West, they blocked the technology transfer to China, sometimes we have to go through some indirect steps like approving foreign companies' establishment, or creating joint venture companies. I believe anyone would choose to buy something they need directly, rather than making sh!t deals.... Indeed China paid high prices like the automobile market.