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China introduce first Chinese Made Passengers aircraft

Hello Beast,

I know that issue. I think that's also not commendable. However, Turkey can not be compared with China. I just have expected much more from the world's second largest economy.
 
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I read in a German newspaper, that the engines are from western companies. This is not convincing.



China smart to used the well reliable engine for their 1st domestically build airplane, time will help China mature their jet engine development, better to only depend 50 percent dependent on other rather be 100 percent dependent and total control by other.
 
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Hello Beast,

I know that issue. I think that's also not commendable. However, Turkey can not be compared with China. I just have expected much more from the world's second largest economy.

Embracer too use foreign engine and I don't see a problem. China can even choose rolls Royce one of they can come up a better one. By the way, the domestic version WS-20 engine is under testing and can be a replacement in future.

This is a commercial plane. There is nothing went to have certain foreign input.
 
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I read in a German newspaper, that the engines are from western companies. This is not convincing.
Using foreign sourced parts does not make this jet any less of a notable accomplishment. Even if the engine came from Germany, engine containment and carriage, aka 'engine pod', is Chinese designed and manufactured. It will be the pod -- not the engine -- that will make or break the question that can the Chinese design a strong and safe engine pod.

Same for fuel cells. Even if the bladders came from a foreign source, bladder installation and security will be of Chinese design and work and will make or break the question of whether the Chinese can integrate multiple fuel bladders into a safe and reliable fuel delivery system.

Same for everything else on the jet.

Using foreign sourced components, large or small, does not make international acceptance any faster, as many would assume, and it is a natural assumption since those foreign companies made components that are used in other jets. It is not just the components but their integration into each other to make a safe and reliable aircraft that matter.

If the C919 is offered for international acceptance, foreign airlines will conduct their own tests, from flights to maintenance to passenger load to configuration flexibility, and each airline will conduct those tests independent of the jet's manufacturer. Pure cargo haulers like UPS and FedEx, have different test criteria than United or American airlines, correct ? Any pressure, from either the manufacturer or the Chinese government, and there will be suspicions as to why and it will drag out the acceptance process longer, possibly even to no acceptance at all. So if UPS refuse to certify the C919, the others will investigate why and it will not bode well for the jet.
 
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1, does west standards on avaiaition is really so good? not really, in fact, the Chinesee made plane can not get the west certification is not a tech issue , but a economic and political issue, then China will solve it by economic and political ways rather than by tech ways though it may take tims but will be soon; the west can not hold the so called standard-doorsill for ever.

2, as for c919, using foreign component saves time and follows international aviation industrial pattern, dones't mean the same domestic is not under development. on the countrary, the domestic components are with very higher standards which will finally turn back to hinder the foreign plane into China if they cannot comply with Chinese standards.

by the way, did you see the c919 windows and its headpiece and its wings, far more advanced than b737 and a320

take it.
 
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Good Job.

Congratulations !

Photos posted by @cnleio on "Leio's PLA military photos"

1-jpg.269013

2-jpg.269014

3-jpg.269015

5-jpg.269018
7-jpg.269021



Thanks for posting and also thanks for Mr. Leio @cnleio for his photographs , yet again !
 
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Just curious, what made you said that? Are you in any way associated with Xi personally?

Years ago, some people bitched and cursed about Chinese domestic cars with the exact same lines.

He is an Indian+China hater. The most stupefying mixture. Hence, he will spin any development into a CCP or demography issue.

On another thread, you have taken this guy seriously and you and @Abacin offered him a thorough lesson but has he even heard 1% of what you said? You have brought up a number of issues and responses, he ignored what he did not like and kept picking on the same lines of argument from the start to the end.

He has not because he is not programmed so. He is programmed for something else.

This is this sort of Indian logic; representative of their own government and ideology. It does not progress although it is very chaotic and flammable.

Years ago, some people bitched and cursed about Chinese domestic cars with the exact same lines.

Some poster already said, in their infancy, any new industries need home base support. This is the advantage of the large population countries with enough purchasing power. With domestic consumption, money flows in and the required components of an entire system are put in place, from logistics to maintenance. And the system slowly perfects itself.

It is not that no Boeing or Airbus fallen down, killing hundreds of people over the time. Human/mechanical errors/accidents are anticipated. The advantage of these global giants is that they already established the entire ecosystem. They all the support services, including effective public relations.

COMAC won't necessarily be a market overhauler, but yet another competitor within the established framework. There is no reason to invent the wheel if the current wheel is riding smoothly.

What is key as @phancong said above is not to let foreigners dominate China's very lucrative market. Just as what we did with HSR, we need to get most of the profit if there is a profit to be made.

Home front is always the most important. Foreign fronts will take time. China is still a developing nation.

Hello Beast,

I know that issue. I think that's also not commendable. However, Turkey can not be compared with China. I just have expected much more from the world's second largest economy.

I guess that's the regular learning and developing curve. There are so many fronts from transportation to computing that China lag behind due to late industrialization. What is critical is to overcome the present bottleneck and start from somewhere. Things never come so easily. Think about your new domestic (old discarded Cadillac model) car. Got to start from somewhere.

I am still an HSR fan, by the way, if I had a chance to travel across China. So I would support further HSRization in China.

***

C919 gets ICBC's backing in marketing globally
November 3, 2015

7427ea210c5417a246ef01.JPG

Unveiling of the first prototype of the C919 is celebrated. The plane was off the assembly line on Nov 2, 2015 in Shanghai. [Photo/China Daily]

ICBC Financial Leasing Co, China's biggest financial leasing company, is to start promoting sales of the domestically built C919 airliner-the narrow-body aircraft being produced by Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd. The first prototype of the C919, to be used for test flights, was off the assembly line on Monday at COMAC's Shanghai factory.

ICBC Financial Leasing is so far the C919's biggest individual launching client, having placed 45 orders. But Cong Lin, its chairman, says it will be taking an active part in promoting the aircraft internationally, after the two sides signed a strategic agreement at the 2015 China Aviation Expo in Beijing in September.

Cong said some of its other foreign clients had expressed interest in placing orders for the C919, after Bangkok-based City Airways recently signed an option for 10 of the aircraft through ICBC Financial Leasing.

"The City Airways' orders show the international market is receptive to China-made aircraft," Cong said.

Jiang Bo, the head of aviation finance at ICBC Financial Leasing, said that with an established network of more than 40 overseas clients across six continents, the company has a strong advantage in promoting the C919 globally,

"Our experience on the international market could prove invaluable for this and other China-made airplane manufacturers, in their efforts to expand globally," Jiang said.

The leasing company's international talents offer financial and consulting services to overseas clients in both Beijing and Dublin of Ireland, which is an important center for global aircraft leasing industry, Jiang said.

The company is also able and willing to provide financing solutions to other C919 clients, he said.

Initially, COMAC has focused on C919 sales at home and in the Asia-Pacific and Africa, but Jiang now expects that to expand quickly to other markets.

"We are including the promotion of the C919 within our own global marketing activities," he said, "but we are realistic that we have to be patient."

Jiang said the C919 could prove a hard-sell globally given that it is still only at the test-flight stage, with conceivably many months of testing ahead before the aircraft can start being built in numbers and delivered.

Industry insiders have confirmed that potential international clients have been hesitant, and suggested that COMAC has been slow too with its own global marketing.

Zhang Yugui, dean of the school of economics and finance at Shanghai International Studies University, said: "It has focused for years on manufacturing, but a solid marketing and service infrastructure is yet to be put in place."
 
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China smart to used the well reliable engine for their 1st domestically build airplane, time will help China mature their jet engine development, better to only depend 50 percent dependent on other rather be 100 percent dependent and total control by other.

Just check the progress of the Y-20, and in the next year it gonna deploy with the WS-20.

So the C919 is in fact a piece of cake for China, but to use the western turbofan engine is in fact an attempt to acquire the flight certificate from them.

The C919 can perfectly use the WS-20 during the domestic flight.
 
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He is an Indian+China hater. The most stupefying mixture. Hence, he will spin any development into a CCP or demography issue.

On another thread, you have taken this guy seriously and you and @Abacin offered him a thorough lesson but has he even heard 1% of what you said? You have brought up a number of issues and responses, he ignored what he did not like and kept picking on the same lines of argument from the start to the end.

He has not because he is not programmed so. He is programmed for something else.

This is this sort of Indian logic; representative of their own government and ideology. It does not progress although it is very chaotic and flammable.



Some poster already said, in their infancy, any new industries need home base support. This is the advantage of the large population countries with enough purchasing power. With domestic consumption, money flows in and the required components of an entire system are put in place, from logistics to maintenance. And the system slowly perfects itself.

It is not that no Boeing or Airbus fallen down, killing hundreds of people over the time. Human/mechanical errors/accidents are anticipated. The advantage of these global giants is that they already established the entire ecosystem. They all the support services, including effective public relations.

COMAC won't necessarily be a market overhauler, but yet another competitor within the established framework. There is no reason to invent the wheel if the current wheel is riding smoothly.

What is key as @phancong said above is not to let foreigners dominate China's very lucrative market. Just as what we did with HSR, we need to get most of the profit if there is a profit to be made.

Home front is always the most important. Foreign fronts will take time. China is still a developing nation.



I guess that's the regular learning and developing curve. There are so many fronts from transportation to computing that China lag behind due to late industrialization. What is critical is to overcome the present bottleneck and start from somewhere. Things never come so easily. Think about your new domestic (old discarded Cadillac model) car. Got to start from somewhere.

I am still an HSR fan, by the way, if I had a chance to travel across China. So I would support further HSRization in China.

***

C919 gets ICBC's backing in marketing globally
November 3, 2015

7427ea210c5417a246ef01.JPG

Unveiling of the first prototype of the C919 is celebrated. The plane was off the assembly line on Nov 2, 2015 in Shanghai. [Photo/China Daily]

ICBC Financial Leasing Co, China's biggest financial leasing company, is to start promoting sales of the domestically built C919 airliner-the narrow-body aircraft being produced by Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd. The first prototype of the C919, to be used for test flights, was off the assembly line on Monday at COMAC's Shanghai factory.

ICBC Financial Leasing is so far the C919's biggest individual launching client, having placed 45 orders. But Cong Lin, its chairman, says it will be taking an active part in promoting the aircraft internationally, after the two sides signed a strategic agreement at the 2015 China Aviation Expo in Beijing in September.

Cong said some of its other foreign clients had expressed interest in placing orders for the C919, after Bangkok-based City Airways recently signed an option for 10 of the aircraft through ICBC Financial Leasing.

"The City Airways' orders show the international market is receptive to China-made aircraft," Cong said.

Jiang Bo, the head of aviation finance at ICBC Financial Leasing, said that with an established network of more than 40 overseas clients across six continents, the company has a strong advantage in promoting the C919 globally,

"Our experience on the international market could prove invaluable for this and other China-made airplane manufacturers, in their efforts to expand globally," Jiang said.

The leasing company's international talents offer financial and consulting services to overseas clients in both Beijing and Dublin of Ireland, which is an important center for global aircraft leasing industry, Jiang said.

The company is also able and willing to provide financing solutions to other C919 clients, he said.

Initially, COMAC has focused on C919 sales at home and in the Asia-Pacific and Africa, but Jiang now expects that to expand quickly to other markets.

"We are including the promotion of the C919 within our own global marketing activities," he said, "but we are realistic that we have to be patient."

Jiang said the C919 could prove a hard-sell globally given that it is still only at the test-flight stage, with conceivably many months of testing ahead before the aircraft can start being built in numbers and delivered.

Industry insiders have confirmed that potential international clients have been hesitant, and suggested that COMAC has been slow too with its own global marketing.

Zhang Yugui, dean of the school of economics and finance at Shanghai International Studies University, said: "It has focused for years on manufacturing, but a solid marketing and service infrastructure is yet to be put in place."


For all those naysayers, there is one thing they can never understand: CPC/China's national determination. With a stable political system, Chinese government never has to worry about short-term performance in order to woo voting population, so they can afford to make very long term plans and strategies, sometimes at the expense of the short term gains.

Both HSR and COMAC, and alike, are not for short term profit, as they are part of China's long term national rejuvenation strategy. Some of our friends here just don't get it, and keep voicing their concerns and/or malice based on their own experience or knowledge with their voting machine system. Too simple, sometimes too naive.
 
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Just check the progress of the Y-20, and in the next year it gonna deploy with the WS-20.

So the C919 is in fact a piece of cake for China, but to use the western turbofan engine is in fact an attempt to acquire the flight certificate from them.

The C919 can perfectly use the WS-20 during the domestic flight.

One Y-20 prototype(the 5th or the 6th) is already test flying with WS-20s.
 
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C919 will serve the domestic market and also be used for military purposes once China develops domestic engines.

With C919, China will significantly reduce its reliance on Boeing and Airbus.

Once it's proven on the domestic market, you will see China exporting this plane to the world, especially the developing world.

Just like China is now exporting high-speed rail, nuclear reactors, ships, cars, oil & gas drilling equipment, construction equipment, medical equipment, etc, C919 will also be another Chinese export.

Chinese know how to get deals done.
 
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I mean a Y-20 that installs with four WS-20 engines on its wings.

Right now, most Y-20 prototypes are installing one or two WS-20 engines on its wings.


I know that WS-20 is going through high altitude test on YL-76 testing platform, but I have not seen any Y-20 photos with WS-20 engines. Are you sure?
 
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