China backs India over UNSC seat????

[Spring Onion]

China backs India's bid for UNSC seat

14 Jan 2008, 1658 hrs IST,INDIATIMES NEWS NETWORK
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BEIJING: In what is seen as a significant trade-off, China on Monday said it would back India’s bid for a permanent seat in the United Nations Security Council.

According to TV reports, India in return, has agreed to respect its neighbour’s claim on Taiwan.

Reports further state that Chinese premier Wen Jiabao has said that both the countries have decided to move forward on border issue.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who is currently in China, said, “We have agreed to deepen military cooperation with China.”

Earlier, government sources indicated that they were expecting a resolution of the fresh irritants on border issue during talks that national security adviser and special representative for the boundary talks, M K Narayanan, will hold with Dai Bingguo, the Chinese pointsperson.

The subject, unlike the border issue, featured in the discussion the PM had with Wen at the dinner hosted by the Chinese premier on Sunday. Significantly, Wen refrained from any mention of the criteria-based approach that the Chinese had harped on to contest America’s efforts to secure concessions for India from the Nuclear Suppliers' Group.

China backs India's bid for UNSC seat-China-World-The Times of India

 

[Contrarian]

China backs India's bid for UNSC seat

BEIJING: In what is seen as a significant trade-off, China on Monday said it would back India’s bid for a permanent seat in the United Nations Security Council.

According to TV reports, India in return, has agreed to respect its neighbour’s claim on Taiwan. backs India's bid for UNSC seat-China-World-The Times of India[/url]

This would be the biggest mistake we did after we 'recognized' Tibet as Chinese territory. A VERY VERY stupid tradeoff.

 

[Spring Onion]

This would be the biggest mistake we did after we 'recognized' Tibet as Chinese territory. A VERY VERY stupid tradeoff.

Eleborate Malay .
What Taiwan has to do with Tibet ??

I thought it was big news for India if China realy backs her on UNSC seat

 

[Contrarian]

If the US and other powers that be agree, China would not say no or veto India's inclusion in UNSC. China also is worried about its image, and would not want to antagonize India directly by saying no.

Moreover that is an intangible gain, no one knows when India might get the UNSC seat, maybe in a decade or perhaps never.
But Taiwan issue is a tangible gain, it can be used as a severe bargaining point over CHinas claim in AP. I believe that accepting Tibet as a part of China was one of our MAJOR MAJOR follies. Tibet could have been as a counter to China's claims on AP. IT was perfect.

 

[Spring Onion]

If the US and other powers that be agree, China would not say no or veto India's inclusion in UNSC. China also is worried about its image, and would not want to antagonize India directly by saying no..

SO you mean just for saving her image China will not veto Indian bid to UNSC ???

And what will China lose if she says NO directly to India ?

Moreover that is an intangible gain, no one knows when India might get the UNSC seat, maybe in a decade or perhaps never.
But Taiwan issue is a tangible gain, it can be used as a severe bargaining point over CHinas claim in AP. I believe that accepting Tibet as a part of China was one of our MAJOR MAJOR follies. Tibet could have been as a counter to China's claims on AP. IT was perfect.

Malay Eleborate it i couldnt get you how can China use Taiwan issue for bargaining over AP?

Do you think bringing India into to UNSC just for getting AP would be of much intrests for China that too in a scenario when India is being used as proxy by US against China than having India without veto power?

 

[Contrarian]

SO you mean just for saving her image China will not veto Indian bid to UNSC ???

And what will China lose if she says NO directly to India ?

Plainly put..Yep. China would not veto India's membership directly. China losses any semblance of normal relations with India which pushes India further towards US.

Case in point: China has supported India on the Indo-US Nuke deal, after they their support and any kind of relations they have with India started to suffer because of the charges being levelled against the left on being Chinese stooges.


I repeat, China will not go against India directly.

Malay Eleborate it i couldnt get you how can China use Taiwan issue for bargaining over AP?

Its not bargaining per se, but relinquishment of claims. India if it supported Tibets independence and disagreed with the One China policy, then it had leverage over China when it came to bargaining over AP. For example, now China recognizes Sikkim as Indian territory, which earlier could be used to hold a constant sword over India.

Do you think bringing India into to UNSC just for getting AP would be of much intrests for China that too in a scenario when India is being used as proxy by US against China than having India without veto power?

If the US wishes it can directly veto any Chinese resolutions without the need of India, itself or through UK. So that is not the point. UN does not give power to its SC members, the clout is wielded through a strong military and economy.Securing the borders first should be of the main concern. Presently the only border where India faces a threat is the Chinese one for it is where we are weak.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

This would be the biggest mistake we did after we 'recognized' Tibet as Chinese territory. A VERY VERY stupid tradeoff.

Who are you? Indian, Indian Malaysian, Malay Malaysian?

We don't need Indian 'recognized' Tibet as Chinese territory.

Because Tibet was, is and will be Chinese territory.

 

[mujahideen]

Who are you? Indian, Indian Malaysian, Malay Malaysian?

We don't need Indian 'recognized' Tibet as Chinese territory.

Because Tibet was, is and will be Chinese territory.

Well said my Chinese brother.

 

[Black Stone]

This support is obvious not about Taiwan, how exactly can India influence the situation between China and Taiwan.

Aslong the US protects Taiwan should the Chinese invade, China could not take Taiwan.

Personally, I think we should not get involved because I don't want Americans die for Taiwan.

 

[Flintlock]

Pak figures prominently in Manmohan-Wen talks
15 Jan 2008, 0141 hrs IST,Diwakar,TNN

BEIJING: The Indo-Chinese joint statement, signed on Monday, said: "The Chinese side understands and supports India's aspirations to play a greater role in the United Nations, including in the Security Council." On India's quest for civil nuclear energy, the statement followed through the indication that had earlier come from Wen to drop its resistance.

"The two sides pledge to promote bilateral cooperation in civil nuclear energy consistent with their respective international commitments," the joint statement said. The particular sentence is situated in the wider context of energy security and climate change, but it marked a big improvement on the Chinese PM's remarks this year. "This is far more definitive," said a senior official who also felt that the sentence is to be read along with Wen refraining from referring to the criteria-based approach that the Chinese had so far harped on to oppose any India-specific concessions from the Nuclear Suppliers Group.

Later, talking to media, foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon tried to underscore the importance of the newly-fashioned understanding by emphasizing that China, as a member of NSG, has certain obligations to keep. He, significantly, went on to suggest that in India's estimate, China's stance may have implications for India in NSG.

The "Shared Vision" document did not reflect the fresh commonality of concern between the two sides over the unfolding situation in Pakistan. Sources said that China, which has historically winked at offences of Pakistan, including its support to anti-India terrorism, is suddenly more appreciative of the dangers that terrorism and the situation in Pakistan pose. Indian officials said that Pakistan had figured majorly in the deliberations between the two leaders, even though the foreign secretary limited himself to stating that the two sides had emphasized the need for a peaceful periphery.

According to the spokesperson of the Chinese foreign ministry, during his meeting with his Indian counterpart, Wen had said that China wished for a stable, prosperous and democratic Pakistan. He also appreciated India's efforts to improve ties with Pakistan.

The two sides also agreed to strengthen the just-established military ties between the two countries by holding a second military exercise, this time to be hosted in India later this year. Considering the assessment that the road to a possible settlement of the border dispute passes through the heart of the People's Liberation Army, closer ties between the two armies may help in keeping the festering border dispute on the backburner.

In any case, the progress on other issues encouraged the Indian side to propose dates for an early meeting of the group of experts set up to harmonise the perceptions on the LAC. Chinese side were yet to respond. But even if they don't by Tuesday when national security adviser M K Narayanan is to discuss the border issue with his counterpart, Dai Bingguo, the two sides seemed keen not to let the issue interfere with the process of normalisation of ties.

The Joint Statement reflected the feeling: "The two sides remain firmly committed to resolving outstanding differences, including on the boundary question, through peaceful negotiations, while ensuring that such differences are not allowed to affect the positive development of bilateral relations. The two sides reiterate their determination to seek a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable solution to the boundary question and to build a boundary of peace and friendship on the basis of the Agreement on Political Parameters and Guiding Principles for the Settlement of the India-China Boundary Question".

The change in China's approach is believed to have been prompted by a number of factors, including the political uncertainty in Pakistan, threat of recession in Western economies as well as fears of an attempt by the defeated president of Taiwan, Chen Shui-Dian, to rouse passions over the independence of the island nation. The Chinese confided in their Indian interlocutors the fear that the defeated Taiwanese president may try to hold on to power by organising a referendum on the independence of the island. Wen, in fact, placed on record his appreciation for India's "One-China" position.

The Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson welcomed India's stand not to let Dalai Lama use Indian soil for anti-China activities. The Indian side was still cautious because of the baggage of mistrust and suspicions that has marked the bilateral ties. But they seem to be willing to believe that the Chinese attitude towards India may have matured. The Joint Statement noted: "The two sides believe that in the new century, Panchsheel, the five principles of peaceful co-existence, should continue to constitute the basic guiding principles for good relations between all countries and for creating the conditions for realising peace and progress of the humankind."

 

[Flintlock]

The Security Council thing is BS. Indian media is exaggerating things as usual.

These are the exact words from the joint statement:

The Chinese side attaches great importance to India's position as a major developing country in international affairs. The Chinese side understands and supports India's aspirations to play a greater role in the United Nations, including in the Security Council.

It simply "supports and understands India's aspirations". It never explicitly stated that it would vote in favour of India.

Full text of China-India joint document_English_Xinhua

 

[peacelover]

Jana, neither china has stated clearly that she will vote in favour of India nor India has directly said that Taiwan is part of china. Both issues are not as simple as they look. This is all about creating conducive environment to enhance future ties at economic front which is highest priority and common interest for both countries.

If economic ties are strong between two countries, it MAY become relatively easy to solve other critical problem and cooperate on other issues, and same applies and important too in case of China-India and India-Pakistan relationship.