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China and Arab Spring

Genesis

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A lot of people have been saying China will have an Arab spring of our own, but even as they are saying this do they not realize the causes of the spring and the difference in China?

Arab Spring countries are fundamentally broken, China is just not perfect. While it may look similar there is a key difference. China will get better, and keeps on improving, while the Arab spring countries won't.

Especially now that Arab spring has more or less destroyed those countries rather than helped, but I could have told them that before it happened. The situation is so similar to China a century ago.
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The leading military strong man Yuan shikai declared himself emperor, his friends and subordinates either turned or remained neutral while Sun Yan Sen sent him into an early grave, but as soon as he's dead, the second in command quickly halted the rebels, regained more than half of China and became acting PM, with puppet presidents. General Sisi, fits this, while the Libya warlords fits the warlord era of China which also happened at the same time. The Syrian crisis also happened in China.
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So, yea I saw it coming, one of the three principles of Chinese democracy by Sun yat sen was people power. The Arab countries got none, a revolution didn't give them any, if anything it took it away. This is too long an explanation, but needless to say it also happened in China.

Ironically, without a revolution, China has been giving the people power year after year, far quicker than any other nation before it. This is also too long an explanation, but just think, a sports team isn't a democracy, but if a few players is so good, they can dictate the terms.


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Now back to difference. Why did Arab spring happen? Failure of the government for one. Regardless of what you may think of China's government, here are the facts.

China is the world's second, and soon to be first in GDP, PPP standards, by 2016, while nominal it will be around 2023-25. China will break the middle income point by no later than 2022, most likely sooner, and China is one of the best in infrastructure even today.

Massive reforms in social services, social freedom, as well as other programs are also in the works and some already achieved, for example, Hukou (think of it as a more important birth certificate) today is very different from what it was even a few years ago, no more re education through labor, so drug addicts can just go to jail, more social welfare as well as access to cheaper, reliable daily needs like food, water, electricity and such.

China will become a lower end developed country as a whole by 2030, a mid developed country in the coastal provinces the size of the US in population, by the same time, and a developed country like UK and US in the special administrative regions like Beijing, Shanghai and such, which holds about half the population of US and more than twice UK, by the same time.

None of these were happening in those countries, or at the speed of China. But that's more or less true for all developing countries.

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Then there is freedom, namely economic freedom, freedom of movement, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, of assembly, of democracy and such.

Economic freedom is the least important in terms of worry, because it's happening before our eyes. You will see it and you can already see it.

Freedom of movement, China doesn't restrict your movement, but China doesn't have enough money for social services for everyone, so if you want to take advantage of said services, you need to stay in your region, but there's obviously groups that would help migrants, and some policies that would also help. But this is a developing country problem, not a authoritarian problem.

Freedom of religion, Chinese are not really religious, there may be about 30-40 million really religious people, maybe. But that's a far cry from the 1.3 billion in China. So while it may seem like a problem for Xinjiang and Tibet, nobody in China really cares, and hence Chinese don't really take this seriously.

Freedom of speech and assembly, well, China has it, sort of. Religious countries are sometimes too strict on what can and can't be shown, but China doesn't really care, in fact a **** industry is developing. Political speech, yea that needs work, but with the Social media, it's a lot harder to control and because of it thousands of officials and social injustices have been fixed.

Assembly, you could, just not rallies, for one thing China is a nation of 1.3 billion, Beijing alone has 20 million plus, it's a problem even if it's a parade for Disney land. People gather for all kinds of different crap all the time, in fact it's a stupid trend that I hate for people to come together for stuff.

Democracy? It will be with Chinese characteristics, what it will look like I have an idea, but it's too big a topic so let's leave it.

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A Chinese fourth tier city. Compare it with other developing world and see the difference.

Pretty much you can do anything you like as long as it doesn't harm others. Getting a car is harder in Beijing, but too many cars harm others. China has 1.3 billion people, too many babies harm others, so somethings are unique to China and soon India. Chinese freedom is head and shoulders above most developing countries, even though we got a 4 out of 100 from one of those Western surveys.

One simple question, China allows people to move, but limited social services due to Hukou, most developing countries has close to no services period, but has no Hukou, how is that more free?


There's obviously more, like outlook, education level, culture, and more but let's leave it at that.


So before anyone start predicting the fall of China and a Chinese revolution, ask yourself, what do you really know of China.
 
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You will not have an Arab spring, you will have a Han Spring :D
 
Well the "Arab Spring" has largely created a mess (Syria especially) so far in the Arab world. Now what is "lacking" is just China to follow suit which we of course do not hope will be the case.

This way the two most populous ethnic groups on earth would be in deep, deep trouble.

Just joking.

So far only Libya and Syria turned sour. 80 million Europeans died during WW1 and WW2 90-70 years ago. 30.000 Libyans (20% of them being African mercenaries from Niger and Chad) dying during the Libyan Civil war (goal achieved) is a drop in the ocean in comparison. Libya was bound to be problematic when civil society is needed to be rebuilt from ZERO after 45 years of dictatorship.

Libya is a rich country and it's a question of time before stability will rule. They have a bright future due to the giant resources and small population

Syria is another case but that has been hijacked by regional and world powers.

I don't think that China will experience anything similar. As the OP told then China has had its revolts and civil wars for the next many decades if not centuries. China is a world superpower and an nation that is moving forward on all fields. No chance of Syria happening in China. It's like comparing apples with pears.

Greetings to the esteemed @Wholegrain @ChineseTiger1986 @Chinese-Dragon ;)

I can speak for a few Arab users and say that we greatly miss the contributions of @Wholegrain and of course we are always looking forward to closer Arab-Chinese relations and to revive the ancient Sino-Arab ties.
 
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We left the buses to you Hamasers. We can use the train now :lol: :rofl: :omghaha: :D :laugh:

Is there anything fruitful you could add to this conversation?

I just complemented you and this is your response, it's an inside joke in Arabic I thought you understood, turns out you're a loser. :lol:
 
Governments fall all the time, this is inevitable.

It has happened in China thousands of times already, throughout history.

We need to make sure that whatever happens, China will find a way to benefit and continue developing.

That said, I hope the CCP gets more time to rule, since they are currently our best chance to become a developed country in the next few decades.
 
@Genesis

China and the Arab Spring don't even deserve to be put in the same sentence. The only people saying it would come to China were westerners.

The true cause of the protests were not freedoms or democracy rather food prices and lack of work opportunities, no disrespect to the Arabs but it has truly turned into the Arab Winter: Riots, Terrorism, War, Failed States, Economic collapse, Coups you name it. They not only failed to bring economic change but politically the same leaders were in power, the CPC despite all it's flaws has brought economic prosperity and political leadership swaps.

Still I'm somewhat glad it did happen because Chinese got a good look that revolutions these days don't bring change but destruction of the country. Arguably the whole event has made Israel stronger.

You will not have an Arab spring, you will have a Han Spring :D

Already happened it was called the Jasmine Revolution where reporters outnumbered protesters it failed after a few weeks.
 
Already happened it was called the Jasmine Revolution where reporters outnumbered protesters it failed after a few weeks.

Not every country can achieve greatness with the so-called "democracy", some people are just not compatible with concept of democracy. Nonetheless, if you get good results that means you're doing something right. But one shouldn't forget, with prosperity, comes more demand for reform and that could either ruin a whole nation or brings it more prosperity.
 
Not every country can achieve greatness with the so-called "democracy", some people are just not compatible with concept of democracy. Nonetheless, if you get good results that means you're doing something right. But one shouldn't forget, with prosperity, comes more demand for reform and that could either ruin a whole nation or brings it more prosperity.

My city (Hong Kong) and Singapore (another Chinese majority city) have done alright with a hybrid type system. Not full democracy and not full authoritarianism, but somewhere in between.

The Mainland system is currently doing the best in terms of economic growth.

Taiwan is a full democracy and not doing so well.

In the end, it's not the name of the system, but the implementation that counts.

Just my opinion.
 
Hong Kong and Singapore are currently at the zenith of their economic growth, economic growth slows down after it passes a certain threshold, you must also not forget that Hong Kong and Singapore are past their capacity to grow any more. Human capital is playing an important role there too.

Taiwan is a full democracy and not doing so well.

Actually Taiwan is doing quite well in terms of engineering and technological development, but prices of Taiwanese products are getting more and more expensive and that causes Taiwan to lose to their Chinese competitors in terms of EoS and hence leave less room for them to maneuver in the developing world's market, which is turning to be a prime destination for Chinese products.
 
10-20 years ago, we will not see us compete in much industries. Now you see us competing in ALL industries from low-medium to high. This is a result of our good management and hardworking. Nothing is given to us. We earn it.
 
:coffee:LOL. Genny writing another useless piece again? You get to get out more often.

it's not so much a piece as it is a rant. Takes about 10-15 minutes, I do it when I get a break, it's my way of relaxing from the suffocating environment of political correctness.

If you read closer, you may notice some don't make sense or are not that connected. That's cause other than spelling I don't really fix or proof read.

@Genesis

China and the Arab Spring don't even deserve to be put in the same sentence. The only people saying it would come to China were westerners.

The true cause of the protests were not freedoms or democracy rather food prices and lack of work opportunities, no disrespect to the Arabs but it has truly turned into the Arab Winter: Riots, Terrorism, War, Failed States, Economic collapse, Coups you name it. They not only failed to bring economic change but politically the same leaders were in power, the CPC despite all it's flaws has brought economic prosperity and political leadership swaps.

Still I'm somewhat glad it did happen because Chinese got a good look that revolutions these days don't bring change but destruction of the country. Arguably the whole event has made Israel stronger.



Already happened it was called the Jasmine Revolution where reporters outnumbered protesters it failed after a few weeks.

Yea, this is more of a rant on the articles that I often read and stupid comments from people.

Sometimes I wonder, do people even care about history at all? I mean all the signs were there. Why would they do something so stupid.

Gadaffi actually had a lot of good policies, today, they are all gone, and what's left is a divided state that's somehow a warzone.

When presidents can be kidnapped easily, you got problems.
 

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