China, America, brother of another mother

[Solomon2]

I'm not saying one system is better than the other. I even said, democratic governments pander to popular opinion on certain issues, likely public welfare and social security, but even China, at the regional level, also have local elections to deal with day-to-day domestic issues and the Chinese Government respond to public outrage on health and safety issues. It's just a different system of checks and balances, and, obviously, China still has a way to go, but it won't necessarily follow the Western system.

I'll be very interested to see how it goes.

What I was saying is that on the really crucial matters like taxation, interest rates, who we trade with, who we go to war with, etc., the average person, be they a citizen in China, or an American, have no actual say on these matters. The idea of true democratic accountability to the people is just a clever facade, especially, when you have a Federal Reserve, owned by private bankers, that does not allow itself to be audited, and open itself to public scrutiny.

I think we have a great deal of accountability in the U.S. The Federal Reserve is not so much, because in the 19th and early 20th centuries it was not considered a good idea to let the government-of-the-day exclusively control public credit, nor let completely independent banks do so. Yet the Fed doesn't control taxation, interest rates, war, or trade; it controls credit creation and smooths market operations, and its chief is accountable to Congress. The system seems to have served the U.S. well for the past thirty years at least, and China has also been a great beneficiary of the Fed's credit creation.

The issue of what's better is moot as it's a horses for courses situation.

I think it's a bit too early for me to judge.

The myth that democracy is the BEST system is propogated because of today's Westernistic hegemony. Historically, there is no evidence: Firstly, democracy is not a historic concept: Athenian was different from British. Secondly, people have preferred other systems, Roman Empire was more prosperous than the Republic.

The Athenian system failed because the Athenians failed to extend the concept of citizen rights beyond their city-state and embraced rapacious and genocidal materialism. The Roman Republic failed due to class war.

In both cases the failure to adopt democratic values as universals doomed the system.
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[jaibi]

Your assuption is that 'democratic values' are the same everywhere. This is not entirely true. Both systems failed because they could not adopt to the change that was culminating. The difference stems from how the ruling class shared power, there is no such thing as a 'perfect' system. Sadly, we cannot assume that all societies want the same thing. I'm not arguing against democracy by the way, only saying it's no magic bullet.

I'll be very interested to see how it goes.

I think we have a great deal of accountability in the U.S. The Federal Reserve is not so much, because in the 19th and early 20th centuries it was not considered a good idea to let the government-of-the-day exclusively control public credit, nor let completely independent banks do so. Yet the Fed doesn't control taxation, interest rates, war, or trade; it controls credit creation and smooths market operations, and its chief is accountable to Congress. The system seems to have served the U.S. well for the past thirty years at least, and China has also been a great beneficiary of the Fed's credit creation.

I think it's a bit too early for me to judge.

The Athenian system failed because the Athenians failed to extend the concept of citizen rights beyond their city-state and embraced rapacious and genocidal materialism. The Roman Republic failed due to class war.

In both cases the failure to adopt democratic values as universals doomed the system.

[/quote]

 

[Solomon2]

Your assuption is that 'democratic values' are the same everywhere. This is not entirely true.

You have to be specific.

Both systems failed because they could not adopt to the change that was culminating.

Too general and I don't see how that can apply to the Athenians, as they pretty much did themselves in by trying to turn their allies into subjects.

I'm not arguing against democracy by the way, only saying it's no magic bullet.

You have to push the values bit. Sadly, many revolutionaries simply seek power for their own ends. (The American Revolution was happily different, as the colonies sought to restore the powers their republican legislatures had developed to serve their constituents but George III tried to usurp.) But every now and then you can support or become a Washington, or an Adenauer, and democracy can thus succeed because leaders put the collective good ahead of their personal greed or thirst for glory.

 

[BoQ77]

I have to say China govt policy strictly controlled the media. No Youtube, no Facebook, ... Domestic media censorred too much.
So the Insiders and Outsiders really don't know well about what happening inside China ...

You said China is prosperity and showing some nice photos or videos that you want others to watch ... yeah we see China's prosperity.

In very rare cases, we have some peeping into the keyhole we see :
China is rich and poor, China is strong and weak, China is peaceful and dangerous, ...

Nowhere world-wide, an ordinary guy could be harmed by his own race by driving a foreign brand car.
Is it good for WTO to accept the member with that attitude ?

 

[Nike]

I have to say China govt policy strictly controlled the media. No Youtube, no Facebook, ... Domestic media censorred too much.
So the Insiders and Outsiders really don't know well about what happening inside China ...

You said China is prosperity and showing some nice photos or videos that you want others to watch ... yeah we see China's prosperity.

In very rare cases, we have some peeping into the keyhole we see :
China is rich and poor, China is strong and weak, China is peaceful and dangerous, ...

Nowhere world-wide, an ordinary guy could be harmed by his own race by driving a foreign brand car.
Is it good for WTO to accept the member with that attitude ?

Inequality has and will happened in every country, in every time span of human history, and sadly you cannot avoid that. Even in the most wealthiest states in the world such as UAE, Singapore, USA, and so on, you will see inequality of human welfare everywhere without exception.

 

[cnleio]

I have to say China govt policy strictly controlled the media. No Youtube, no Facebook, ... Domestic media censorred too much.
So the Insiders and Outsiders really don't know well about what happening inside China ...

You said China is prosperity and showing some nice photos or videos that you want others to watch ... yeah we see China's prosperity.

In very rare cases, we have some peeping into the keyhole we see :
China is rich and poor, China is strong and weak, China is peaceful and dangerous, ...

Nowhere world-wide, an ordinary guy could be harmed by his own race by driving a foreign brand car.
Is it good for WTO to accept the member with that attitude ?

Without Youtube, Facebook ... without West domesticy the China still develop very well, Chinese get more wealth, PLA military become more powerful. But those living in Youtube, Facebook ... and West domesticy, they play far far... behind Chinese.

@BoQ77 Save ur cheaper democratic sympathy, compared with Vietnam the China run WELL. I have no doubt next West Color-Revolution will occur in Saigon and Hanoi.

 

[BoQ77]

Without Youtube, Facebook ... without West domesticy the China still develop very well, Chinese get more wealth, PLA military become more powerful. But those living in Youtube, Facebook ... and West domesticy, they play far far... behind Chinese.

@BoQ77 Save ur cheaper democratic sympathy, compared with Vietnam the China run WELL. I have no doubt next West Color-Revolution will occur in Saigon and Hanoi.

it's not better if you could choose Weibo or Youtube, ... ? or you have only one option ( we will not call that choosing anymore ).