Census 2021 shows India overtakes China in migration, nearly half of all Australians have overseas-born parent

[HydraChess]

The myth of the 'highly skilled Indian' is often repeated by Indians and the business community and their paid politicians who want increased migration.

In my experience, the Indian workers are like any other worker, including Australian workers. It's the standard Bell curve: a few smart cookies, a few dead weights, and mostly average Joes doing average work.

There is nothing that the Indian immigrants are doing (at least in tech) that couldn't be done by a local worker with six months training and a support group that the Indians usually have.

Personally, I feel that when a government cannot train its own people for 21st century jobs then it has failed its people.

I recruit for a FAANG company and right now we have to spend 1 year (YES 1 YEAR!) to close a position of an engineer and we are ready to support immigration. Our salaries are typically north of CDN 150K if you include stock options and initial joining bonus (for first 2 years when stock options are still not in that number). These folks we recruit are typically college grads with 2-3 years of experience and these days we are liberally giving options to work from anywhere in Canada.

The entire narrative that locals in tech can do anything is rather a misrepresentation. ANYONE can do any damn thing, it is a question of who ACTUALLY does what. Indians/foreign labour get a chance because efforts to hire a local engineer fail even after 6 months. Actually onboarding a foreign hire is MUCH HARDER for the company because getting a LMIA for work permit approval and visa takes north of 4 months now. Foreign hires are a decision of desparation to simply continue to work and expand and nothing else.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

India is great China is great but people do migrate out because it's over crowded. The vast spaces and resources of Australia US Canada etc make for better quality of life, so why not.

There is no dearth of skilled people in India, so even after a few tens of thousands migrate there's enough.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

You missed the Employer Sponsored Category......

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/457-quarterly-report-31122017.pdf

of the 51969 application in 2017, half of those are 457 visa

View attachment 857915

The TSS, the 457 I have been talking about for a long time.

And yes, if you quote 2017, Independent skill migration still the way to go, because of the major overhaul of the immigration system, if you quote data from 2010 or before, independent skill migration visa is the only way to go because you don't do jack shit and you get PR that way, You are probably talking about 90/10 split.


Sure, 13000 out of around 70000 before overhaul is a lot?

Dude, again, may I remind you I live in Australia, you do not, and you said You know it better than me??

LOL

@WotTen @patero maybe you want to come here and comment on this Indian post......

He seems to think only the "Best" Indian come to Migrate to Australia and only do top notch professional job lol.....

Actually the 'best' qualified Indian grads if they are willing, go to the US of A. Some may settle for Australia or Singapore if they want to be closer to India. A few years ago my company sent me to India to talk to three people months before their graduation because they were declining our offer- I did my best but ALL three were hellbent on fou ding their own startups, they had funding all lined up etc. All we could do was wish them well.

Of course that's probably an exception but in general we in the US were happy to take grads from the top 25 Indian colleges. I'd guess the next tier went to the outsources such as TCS etc.

 

[HydraChess]

Another issue is our Uni system has become money corporation, they prefer international student than local, I was at UNSW back in early 2010s, there are more International Student than local student lol, because if they go international, you get chunks of money and you open up campus like crazy, you get a HECS line of credit when you gave that spot to a local. Hoping the COVID closure would teach those college a lesson, but by the way we are heading, it seems like history is going to repeat themselves.......

Thats interesting.. From what I know, the biggest source of income in a university --the cash cows-- are undergrads. They pay the most, they do not get TA-ship or RA-ship. Any mostly undergrads are locals. Heck in terms of fee, an undergrad in UNSW will pay identical tuition as an international student --unless I am missing something.

Student Fees and Payment

www.student.unsw.edu.au

I looked at UNSW tuition for engineering because thats the biggest in demand school for Indian students coming to Australia.

BTW, UNSW has about one third foreign students at least in 2018. I am not sure where you got the idea that more than half are foreign students.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

So are Chinese, isn't China a great, wonderful country? So why are there millions of Chinese coming to the West?

Quality of life is better in many western countries. In India for example we can buy all the cars we want but the roads are crowded so can't enjoy the drive.

Look the western museums have our artifacts that their ancestors stole, their buildings are built using material and labor hijacked from here, so some of us decide to come there and enjoy atleast part the fruits of our ancestors' labor. Happy ?

 

[HydraChess]

Dude, again, may I remind you I live in Australia, you do not, and you said You know it better than me??

May I tell you that I once lived in Australia on a 189 visa (self application) and thats how I do know the DIBP's system. I moved to Canada for a different reason but I do know Australian system..

He seems to think only the "Best" Indian come to Migrate to Australia and only do top notch professional job lol.....

May I ask where did I claim that only "Best" come to Australia?

I expected a bit more honesty from an ex-serviceman.

 

[HydraChess]

It seems that these Indians are not happy in free and democratic India, so they immigrated to developed countries.

Wonder why Chinese show up in droves and not live in the SUPERPOWWWWER China. Is the straddling bus of China not comfortable enough so they immigrate to the enemy countries or western imperialists?

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/457-quarterly-report-31122017.pdf
of the 51969 application in 2017, half of those are 457 visa

So now you are confounding permanent resident visa with temporary resident ones?

Remember, the initial discussion was how foreigners are committing fraud by coming for studying shoddy degrees in priority occupations then taking up low-end jobs in regional Australia and finally PR by regional schemes?

Can we stick to that please?

If RSMS was really a such a massive gateway of fraud then numbers should have indicated it.

I have shown you time and again that as compared to 189 and 190 put together, it is not. Even in 2019-20

Independent 189 : 13K
State Sponsored 190 : 21K

RSMS : 23 K


My point remains, even after clamp down, in 2019-20, 189 and 190 put together significantly OUTNUMBER RSMS. The entire fraud narrative does not have legs to stand upon.

Lets not even talk about 2016-17 where RSMS was not even 10K.

 

[jhungary]

That's true. What I meant is that people play the 'minimum payroll tax' game to keep their H1 valid so they can stay in the US and look for a better job. It's a lot easier to find a good paying job if you are already in the US. You are also more likely to get a PR sponsor if you are in the US doing in-person interview.

Btw, I don't mean to imply that only Indians do migration fraud. I am sure every group does it. When I was travelling outback Australia, the vast majority of visa overstayers were British. I saw a couple of Japanese girls working in hostels and I felt bad because they were unhappy and I could tell their employer was abusing them.

Yeah, the US system is better, because at most you can cheat is a H1 visa (You can't really do it with EB visa) but as we see in 2017 the 457 has been widely abused, I mean, that is something not going to happen with the US system.

I think our immigration need to separate those visa like in the US, you can only get there considering how many year you have stay but not on a "Point" scale.

And sure, as I said in the first post, everybody does it, Indian, Chinese, even some Pakistani.

May I tell you that I once lived in Australia on a 189 visa (self application) and thats how I do know the DIBP's system. I moved to Canada for a different reason but I do know Australian system..


May I ask where did I claim that only "Best" come to Australia?

I expected a bit more honesty from an ex-serviceman.

lol, as I said, I did my wife 189, and she did probably thousand of onshore migration once she got her G. Diploma for migration agent. As for you, I don't know, I don't know you, you can say what you want that does not mean it is true.

And most Australian member would agree the "Skill" migration scheme is a scam. As I discussed with @WotTen you either don't know shit or you are really thinking the "Skill" migration is for skill.

As for the "Best" and "Brightest", lol......

 

[jhungary]

Wonder why Chinese show up in droves and not live in the SUPERPOWWWWER China. Is the straddling bus of China not comfortable enough so they immigrate to the enemy countries or western imperialists?


So now you are confounding permanent resident visa with temporary resident ones?

Remember, the initial discussion was how foreigners are committing fraud by coming for studying shoddy degrees in priority occupations then taking up low-end jobs in regional Australia and finally PR by regional schemes?

Can we stick to that please?

If RSMS was really a such a massive gateway of fraud then numbers should have indicated it.

I have shown you time and again that as compared to 189 and 190 put together, it is not. Even in 2019-20

Independent 189 : 13K
State Sponsored 190 : 21K

RSMS : 23 K


My point remains, even after clamp down, in 2019-20, 189 and 190 put together significantly OUTNUMBER RSMS. The entire fraud narrative does not have legs to stand upon.

Lets not even talk about 2016-17 where RSMS was not even 10K.

Dude, that's your problem. I am not just talking about RSMS, I am talking about ENS + Regional.

First you don't have just 1 path way to get Australian PR here, you can go directly to PR visa, or go from Temporary visa then apply for a PR. You keep using independent skill migration which is the direct pathway, sure, that is less prone to fraud (actually it's not) but most people, as i said, are using ENS or Regional visa to come here.,

Essentially someone who either come here and do 2 years Working Holiday, or 3 years degree, then instead of trying to get enough point to get 189 or any onshore independent visa, they go for TSS and whatever visa replaced the 457 with. Those people are what I am talking about.

There aren't really that much 189 visa now (even after 2017 overhaul, that's still 5 years ago) now, all those people are simply here for some odd job and get sponsored because they live in regional Australia.

Actually the 'best' qualified Indian grads if they are willing, go to the US of A. Some may settle for Australia or Singapore if they want to be closer to India. A few years ago my company sent me to India to talk to three people months before their graduation because they were declining our offer- I did my best but ALL three were hellbent on fou ding their own startups, they had funding all lined up etc. All we could do was wish them well.

Of course that's probably an exception but in general we in the US were happy to take grads from the top 25 Indian colleges. I'd guess the next tier went to the outsources such as TCS etc.

US don't care, I probably would be able to get US visa easy if I wasn't born in the US already (I got Jus Soli Citizenship)...There are way too many avenue to be one, you can get H1, or go academic route and go EB1 (do a master or PhD) or just invest $500,000 in US... all those are very easy to do..

I am not saying every Indian or everyone cheated the system, but most that who apply and granted PR here are. I am just having problem the guy above seems to think all we got is the cream of the crop ..............Not all immigrant here are Doctor or Lawyer you know (Ironically my wife is go thru Australian Immigration as a lawyer) And that is true be it Indian, or Chinese or anywhere else......

 

[lcloo]

All these arguements have a major flaw in that no one differentiates between Migrants and Immigrants. As the OP's figures are on Migrants, is there any specific data on how many of these migrants decided to be Immigrants? i.e. Those migrants who decided to be permanent resident/citizens of Australia?​

Large numbers of migrants are foreign students as well as temporaly foreign workers, expatrites etc. These people will leave Australia ultimately unless they got PR status or becaomes citizens of Australia. ​

​

Main Difference​

The main difference between the terms immigrant and migrant is that an immigrant is a person who comes to live in a country, and a migrant is a person who moves from a country.

Immigrant vs. Migrant​

An immigrant is the one who moves to another country, mainly for permanent residence. Migrant is a person who is settling in a new place but does not want to call attention to where he came from or where he is going. The verb immigrate means you are coming into a country to live. Migrate means to move. An immigrant leaves one country or region and settles in another. Immigrate specifically refers to come into a new country, region, or environment, to settle there. Migrants leave for any number of reasons, including to find work, get an education, etc. The term can be applied to refugees. But not all migrants qualify as refugees. Immigrant relocate to a country. Migrant move from one region to another either within a country or across national borders. An immigrant is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country, one who migrates into a country as a settler. Migrant (also migrant worker) is someone who moves from place to place to do seasonal work. Immigrate means to come in. It is from the destination. Migrate means moving. Immigrants willingly settle in a country. Migrants are mostly forced by any factor to move somewhere. An immigrant is an individual moving to a new country from his country of origin with due formalities at the embassy. Migrant is an individual moving from one place to another. Both immigrants and migrants can be people or birds, and typically refers not to a single individual or family but a larger demographic.

 

[jhungary]

All these arguements have a major flaw in that no one differentiates between Migrants and Immigrants. As the OP's figures are on Migrants, is there any specific data on how many of these migrants decided to be Immigrants? i.e. Those migrants who decided to be permanent resident/citizens of Australia?​

Large numbers of migrants are foreign students as well as temporaly foreign workers, expatrites etc. These people will leave Australia ultimately unless they got PR status or becaomes citizens of Australia. ​

​

Main Difference​

The main difference between the terms immigrant and migrant is that an immigrant is a person who comes to live in a country, and a migrant is a person who moves from a country.

Immigrant vs. Migrant​

An immigrant is the one who moves to another country, mainly for permanent residence. Migrant is a person who is settling in a new place but does not want to call attention to where he came from or where he is going. The verb immigrate means you are coming into a country to live. Migrate means to move. An immigrant leaves one country or region and settles in another. Immigrate specifically refers to come into a new country, region, or environment, to settle there. Migrants leave for any number of reasons, including to find work, get an education, etc. The term can be applied to refugees. But not all migrants qualify as refugees. Immigrant relocate to a country. Migrant move from one region to another either within a country or across national borders. An immigrant is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country, one who migrates into a country as a settler. Migrant (also migrant worker) is someone who moves from place to place to do seasonal work. Immigrate means to come in. It is from the destination. Migrate means moving. Immigrants willingly settle in a country. Migrants are mostly forced by any factor to move somewhere. An immigrant is an individual moving to a new country from his country of origin with due formalities at the embassy. Migrant is an individual moving from one place to another. Both immigrants and migrants can be people or birds, and typically refers not to a single individual or family but a larger demographic.

Here in Oz, it's almost the same,


They are not called "Immigrant" visa, but Migrant Visa, and all the term home office defined is for long term stay, they don't really really separate those two term, here you are either a short stay or long stay migrant.

Not sure what ABC count as migrant tho, probably the official line.

 

[silverox]

So are Chinese, isn't China a great, wonderful country? So why are there millions of Chinese coming to the West?

I hate your avatar, this disgusting slavery flag, why don't pakistan forums ban the ID of this slavery flag