Casteism Map of India: How strong is it over entire India?

[MM_Haider]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1862895387073736

Judging by number of responses, it seems not so rare job description for Pakistan folks.

If you wish I can keep on digging more and more such examples...

Here i make it even simpler...

https://www.google.com/search?q="cleaner"+"dubai"+site:.pk

This link searches pages from Pakistan containing word cleaner and dubai. Just first page suggest the number of job posting in Pakistan websites looking for cleaners to work in dubai.

I bet none of the people applied for this Job...

here is ease for you.. go and apply there...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ind...ome..69i57.15235j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Indians are preferred for bathroom cleaning/ janitorial jobs in Muslim majority gulf countries...

 

[Nityam]

I bet none of the people applied for this Job...

here is ease for you.. go and apply there...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ind...ome..69i57.15235j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Indians are preferred for bathroom cleaning/ janitorial jobs in Muslim majority gulf countries...

LOL. Sure.

Jobs are advertised in pakistan because "No one applies for those jobs"

Sounds "logical".

 

[MM_Haider]

LOL. Sure.

Jobs are advertised in pakistan because "No one applies or those jobs"

Sounds "logical".

that's correct ... Since Pakistanis are not available for jobs in Muslims majority gulf and Indians are readily available .. such companies often advertise in Pakistan.. still no one applies... because Indians are preferred for cleaning jobs in Muslim majority gulf countries

 

[BringHarmony]

LOL. Sure.

Jobs are advertised in pakistan because "No one applies or those jobs"

Sounds "logical".

The issue with certain beliefs of Pakistan folks is similar to the so called invisible dragon in garage situation described by great Carl Sagan, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage .

The problem is that when a person believes in a belief then he keeps on adding new qualification to their belief.

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin[4]) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

It is the same case here.

A certain member argues that Pakistan folks NEVER work in janitorial or cleaning work in gulf.

You show them a news which does report a Pakistan clearner in Gulf.

The member argues that Pakistan folks RARELY work as janitors or cleaners and that person is perhaps the ONLY such janitor. He further mentions that such posts in gulf are advertised SPECIFICALLY for HINDUS and INDIANS.

You show them plenty of ads being published targetting specifically for Pakistan folks with arrangements that ONLY pakistan folks can take them because the recruitment effort is limited to Pakistan. Not to mention, a number of people from Pakistan have shown interest in such jobs in Dubai.

The member says, "I bet no one from Pakistan joins that job", with a customary "lol". He also reiterates that ONLY Hindu Indian are recruited for such jobs and posts a search page (not even limiting it to India). The point that BOTH Indian and Pakistan folks can be working in significant numbers is lost on the person. The fact that number of Indians is 6-7 times is lost on the said person.

At this time you realize that the guy has a belief in belief that Pakistan folks CANNOT work in cleaning or Janitorial jobs and only Hindus do that. Such a belief is as strong as a religious person's belief in God. NO amount of evidence can make them EVEN consider anything else. You can only pity them.

that's correct ... Since Pakistanis are not available for jobs in Muslims majority gulf and Indians are readily available .. such companies often advertise in Pakistan.. still no one applies... because Indians are preferred for cleaning jobs in Muslim majority gulf countries

How do you explain the amount of people who expressed their Interest in the job? Remember, the link I posted had responses from a number of people.

 

[MM_Haider]

The issue with certain beliefs of Pakistan folks is similar to the so called invisible dragon in garage situation described by great Carl Sagan, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage .

The problem is that when a person believes in a belief then he keeps on adding new qualification to their belief.



It is the same case here.

A certain member argues that Pakistan folks NEVER work in janitorial or cleaning work in gulf.

You show them a news which does report a Pakistan clearner in Gulf.

The member argues that Pakistan folks RARELY work as janitors or cleaners and that person is perhaps the ONLY such janitor. He further mentions that such posts in gulf are advertised SPECIFICALLY for HINDUS and INDIANS.

You show them plenty of ads being published targetting specifically for Pakistan folks with arrangements that ONLY pakistan folks can take them because the recruitment effort is limited to Pakistan. Not to mention, a number of people from Pakistan have shown interest in such jobs in Dubai.

The member says, "I bet no one from Pakistan joins that job", with a customary "lol". He also reiterates that ONLY Hindu Indian are recruited for such jobs and posts a search page (not even limiting it to India). The point that BOTH Indian and Pakistan folks can be working in significant numbers is lost on the person. The fact that number of Indians is 6-7 times is lost on the said person.

At this time you realize that the guy has a belief in belief that Pakistan folks CANNOT work in cleaning or Janitorial jobs and only Hindus do that. Such a belief is as strong as a religious person's belief in God. NO amount of evidence can make them EVEN consider anything else. You can only pity them.


How do you explain the amount of people who expressed their Interest in the job? Remember, the link I posted had responses from a number of people.

bullshit selected argument!.. why are so inclined to prove that Pakistanis work in janitorial jobs in Gulf especially when you have to search for examples... ?? specifically searching with Pakistan keyword?
is it some sort of attempt to overcome your inferiority complex? I told you before there is nothing harm in it and no need to get touchy on this that you dragged Carl Sagan now to prove your point!

what I told you was that I have been living abroad for a decade and NEVER came across any Pakistani doing janitorial job ... and I still say you go to any gulf country and see for yourself ... you will find Pakistanis in this job (because your will search specifically for Pakistanis among thousands of Hindus from India or Indians doing this job) very rare... even if you randomly google.. you will find Indian maids, cleaners etc offering their services..

 

[Nityam]

The issue with certain beliefs of Pakistan folks is similar to the so called invisible dragon in garage situation described by great Carl Sagan, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage .

The problem is that when a person believes in a belief then he keeps on adding new qualification to their belief.



It is the same case here.

A certain member argues that Pakistan folks NEVER work in janitorial or cleaning work in gulf.

You show them a news which does report a Pakistan clearner in Gulf.

The member argues that Pakistan folks RARELY work as janitors or cleaners and that person is perhaps the ONLY such janitor. He further mentions that such posts in gulf are advertised SPECIFICALLY for HINDUS and INDIANS.

You show them plenty of ads being published targetting specifically for Pakistan folks with arrangements that ONLY pakistan folks can take them because the recruitment effort is limited to Pakistan. Not to mention, a number of people from Pakistan have shown interest in such jobs in Dubai.

The member says, "I bet no one from Pakistan joins that job", with a customary "lol". He also reiterates that ONLY Hindu Indian are recruited for such jobs and posts a search page (not even limiting it to India). The point that BOTH Indian and Pakistan folks can be working in significant numbers is lost on the person. The fact that number of Indians is 6-7 times is lost on the said person.

At this time you realize that the guy has a belief in belief that Pakistan folks CANNOT work in cleaning or Janitorial jobs and only Hindus do that. Such a belief is as strong as a religious person's belief in God. NO amount of evidence can make them EVEN consider anything else. You can only pity them.


How do you explain the amount of people who expressed their Interest in the job? Remember, the link I posted had responses from a number of people.

Some joker even "thanked" his post. That must take the cake

 

[BringHarmony]

bullshit selected argument!.. why are so inclined to prove that Pakistanis work in janitorial jobs in Gulf especially when you have to search for examples... ?? specifically searching with Pakistan keyword?
is it some sort of attempt to overcome your inferiority complex? I told you before there is nothing harm in it and no need to get touchy on this that you dragged Carl Sagan now to prove your point!

what I told you was that I have been living abroad for a decade and NEVER came across any Pakistani doing janitorial job ... and I still say you go to any gulf country and see for yourself ... you will find Pakistanis in this job (because your will search specifically for Pakistanis among thousands of Hindus from India or Indians doing this job) very rare... even if you randomly google.. you will find Indian maids, cleaners etc offering their services..

I merely constructed a search query that will narrow down any job posting with words "cleaners" and "dubia" and limited it to only Pakistan sites. This basically gives you a list of ads specific to Pakistan.

It disproves your earlier assumptions that a certain kind of jobs are targeted only for non-Pakistan nationals.

Now the second part. You understand that these two are different :

1. I never come across a cleaner from Pakistan in gulf countries.
2. There are NO or very rare cleaners from Pakistan in gulf countries.

You may not have noticed Pakistan origin cleaners because you were simply not looking for them.

 

[MM_Haider]

I merely constructed a search query that will narrow down any job posting with words "cleaners" and "dubia" and limited it to only Pakistan sites. This basically gives you a list of ads specific to Pakistan.

It disproves your earlier assumptions that a certain kind of jobs are targeted only for non-Pakistan nationals.

Now the second part. You understand that these two are different :

1. I never come across a cleaner from Pakistan in gulf countries.
2. There are NO or very rare cleaners from Pakistan in gulf countries.

You may not have noticed Pakistan origin cleaners because you were simply not looking for them.

your observation totally false... i do look for them... Even i saw Indian cleaners in UK, USA, China and even in Cuba and Russia... you don't need to get touchy or drag Pakistanis here that they also do... Indians are preffered for such jobs because they are cheap labour and capitalists like cheap labour.. Pakistanis are not into cleaning jobs... I have NEVER come across any janitor working in bathrooms in Gulf..

 

[BringHarmony]

your observation totally false... i do look for them

Prove it.

Even i saw Indian cleaners in UK, USA, China and even in Cuba and Russia

You do understand that presence of Indian workers in cleaning occupations does not preclude presence of Pakistan origin workers in the same profession in significant numbers.

Indians are preffered for such jobs because they are cheap labour and capitalists like cheap labour

So are Pakistan folks. Thats why they are in the unskilled labor jobs in gulf in the first place.

I have NEVER come across any janitor working in bathrooms in Gulf.. I have NEVER come across any janitor working in bathrooms in Gulf..

Again, your observing and NO Pakistan origin worker actually working there are two different things. Lastly, do you ASK each and every janitor you come across if they are not from Pakistan?

BTW, I have worked closely with MANY facility management firms and yes, at least in Canada, a significant number of Pakistan origin folks work in janitorial and cleaning duties. BTW, so do Indians or a lot of folks from south/south eastern Asia like Philippine, Indonesia, Sir Lanka etc. And so do Canadians as well.

 

[jamahir]

Remember when your father very recently passed away I told you that I also lost my father quite young? well not only that, my father was completely wrongfully bankrupted overnight by my uncle a fortnight before his death.All that pressure and (intentional) stoppage of medicine got to him. Since then it had been an uphill struggle for me to restore everything back home. as mentioned previously I guess in this thread, i have a new gf and may marry next year..I want to therefore concentrate on my work, and if possible close the deal on a modest export unit (I am a minor party in this)...this would at least help me to buy a smallish apartment in a couple of years..I am hellbent on marrying only after I buy my own apt, no matter how nondescript and modest it is...I am a severely clinically autistic person..At best I can concentrate on only a couple of things in life..because of the intrusion of a new person, I have to either give her up or give pdf up..teh re-engagement with pdf the last 3-4 months was such a guilty pleasure..I may make this an annual hobby..be on pdf 2-3 months of a year every winter....So perhaps you may be able to understand my decision ...I look forward to seeing you around when I am back as I do thoroughly enjoy your posts...take care, all the best and once again my condolences for your recent loss


PS:By Nationalistic Capitalism I meant tactical tariffs and trade barriers: Like the temporary trade barriers imposed on Japanese large capacity motorcycles by Ronald Regan to save Harley Davidson---->which later went onto to become a global cultural icon (Terminator 2 and other movies) and a permanent resident of the world's top 100 brands list

My commiserations about your father's struggles before he passed away. It is sad to learn how he got cheated and how he was the victim of a conspiracy, especially at the hands of a close relative.

Come to PDF when you can.

My best wishes for your plans.

 

[PakSword]

I have seen plenty of Pakistanis doing cleaning job in Dubai and Saudi arabia, but feel free to live in denial.

I live in UAE and have spent many years in KSA too, have never seen a Pakistani doing a cleaning job.. however, you will see plenty of Pakistanis doing labor jobs.

====================================================
Although I don't see a problem in doing so.. because in a 100% Muslim country, how will we maintain cleanliness? Cleanliness is considered half of our faith and cleaning homes, or cleaning streets and other places shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

 

[BringHarmony]

I live in UAE and have spent many years in KSA too, have never seen a Pakistani doing a cleaning job.. however, you will see plenty of Pakistanis doing labor jobs.

I have a question, how do you know nationality of a person doing cleaning job? Do you ask them?

 

[PakSword]

I have a question, how do you know nationality of a person doing cleaning job? Do you ask them?

I have a habit of giving 2-5 dirhams tip whenever I see any one cleaning the street or outside of public washrooms.. they work very hard, specially the people who pick things from streets in hot summers. sometimes, I just ask casually where he is from, and I get the answer. Mostly they are Indians, and I respect them. Moreover, many of them wear this red/ pink thread on their wrists..

Just merely talking to them for 10-20 seconds make them smile..

 

[Nityam]

I have a habit of giving 2-5 dirhams tip whenever I see any one cleaning the street or outside of public washrooms.. they work very hard, specially the people who pick things from streets in hot summers. sometimes, I just ask casually where he is from, and I get the answer. Mostly they are Indians, and I respect them. Moreover, many of them wear this red/ pink thread on their wrists..

Just merely talking to them for 10-20 seconds make them smile..

Just so that we get this clear.

You ONLY suck up to janitors and tip them 5 dirhams ?

Or do you do the same for construction workers , electricians, plumbers, maids and gardeners ?

And you ask the citizenship of every single one of them, right ?

Which basically means you must be tipping at least 100 dirhams every day ..... which means every month you must be tipping 3000 dirhams

What a shame you keep tipping Indians while imran khan goes to Dubai with a begging bowl.

I have a question, how do you know nationality of a person doing cleaning job? Do you ask them?

He not only ask them of their nationality, he also asks them of their religion and sexual preference

 

[PakSword]

Just so that we get this clear.

You ONLY suck up to janitors and tip them 5 dirhams ?

Or do you do the same for construction workers , electricians, plumbers, maids and gardeners ?

And you ask the citizenship of every single one of them, right ?

Which basically means you must be tipping at least 100 dirhams every day ..... which means every month you must be tipping 3000 dirhams

What a shame you keep tipping Indians while imran khan goes to Dubai with a begging bowl.

If you ever visit UAE, you will know that you can't pass near the construction site usually.

But when you go to malls, when you walk on the footpath, you will always find cleaners.. You pass by the gardeners too..

And its not that I give money everyday..

I hope I have answered your questions.

What a shame you keep tipping Indians while imran khan goes to Dubai with a begging bowl.

More shameful is that a country has just turned into a hyper power, and I thought I wouldn't find any Indian cleaner on the street... but still I am seeing them..