Can they do it?

[x_man]

Women as fighter pilots?? How successful they will be is anybody’s guess. I would like to put you guys in the shoes of a fighter pilot and then decide for yourself.

It’s June, noon, temperature around 50 degrees C and humidity 80%, PAF Base Mianwali, Main Tarmac. Around 40 aircrafts ( FT-5 & F-7s) neatly parked in three rows. You leave squadrons building for a low level strike to Dhok Pathan Bridge, you pick your helmet and walk towards the flight lines. Second mission of the day is about to start up. It’s difficult to do the exterior inspection because the panels are so so hot that you cant check them properly. Drop tanks burning with heat. Heat has already started to take a toll on your body and you are sweating badly. You get into the aircraft but cannot touch the stick and switches. Crew chief straps you; you wear your helmet, connect the G-suit hose and R/T lead , lock the canopy down and wait for the IP.

By the time you start ,your coverall is completely wet with the sweat. You Startup, taxi and finally line up. The pressure of accurate navigation ahead and making your target good is immense. Finally your left hand goes full forward and the right gradually comes back. Out of traffic pattern you set course on first heading trying to maintain 250 feet AGL accurately on altimeter. Pressure is continuously mounting. At first turn in point, you are late by 15 seconds and off track by half nautical mile. Guy in the back seat ( GIBS) is not at all happy. You start to panic and tire your self badly. Once you enter the Murid area, Cherat Control wants you to make a dog leg because two A-5s are doing lo level GCI around Murid. You get into more panic but control your wits and make the second and third turning points good. Atlast you reach your IP, pullup but its too late. You miss the target because you never selected the switches in panic. GIBS start to shout more and more and you wish for a moment that either he or you shouldn’t had been there. Finally you recover, land taxi back and switch off. Sweaty, tired and heart broken you walk back to squadron. Your legs are shaking with weakness and dehydration is taking its toll. After a nightmarish debrief from instructor you retreat your self in cool environments of crew room. Suddenly one of your coursemates informs you that because of unfitness of one of the pilots you are scheduled for 1V1 mission and instructor is calling for a brief. And the whole chain of event starts again.............

Its not a fiction but just a highlight of the situation one faces during training and even later on. The purpose of the narration was that its a tough life out there. Not only physically but one has to be mentally fit to take any beating.

Fighter flying in one of the loveliest thing in the world but it comes with a price. I have seen well built guys crumbling under the pressures. I know people refusing flying because they couldn’t handle the pressures. It’s a dog eat dog life out there.


Once you are done with your operational conversion, the squadron life begins. Its tough. Everybody is good and very professional. You have to prove yourself. Ops conversion, pair leader, section leader, nights ops, specialised weapons ops, Air combat, deployments, exercises ….training never seems to end and with each stage the things get difficult and challenging.

I have no doubts about the mental strength of our women, they are hardworking and professional. But the big question is that do you really think that they will be able to take this physical beating for next 17 to 18 years as a fighter pilot??? Don’t think that USAF/USN or Marine has pilots flying F-16/F-18 etc. Consider our culture and environments. They will have to leave their infants behind because she has to go to Jacobabad for a month for HiMark. She will have to ADAs at day as well as night. She will be deploying for long durations at Forward operating bases.

Lady Fighter Pilot: it looks very trendy and chic situation, but, will it really work for us. Can a poor country afford such luxury? Will they be able to give a long service? Will their male colleagues accept them on a role which had been their domain? Will they be able to withstand the physical pressures of fighter flying? Will they be able to take split second decisions in a multi bogey scenario? And, will they be able to lead a strike of 10 aircrafts well into enemy territory at night and 250 feet AGL ?

I think its anybody’s guess that how they will perform in years to come. I wish our female pilots all the success in their future pursuits and hope they prove everyone wrong who thinks that they can’t do it.

 

[Keysersoze]

Well I would say as evidence proves they are more than capable of filling a role within the airforce.

I have added a list of some the areas covered by women pilots in the U.S. airforce. If they can do it why not Pakistani women?







Today, in the war against the Taliban and al-Qaida targets in Afghanistan and Iraq, women are filling aircrew positions as bomber pilots, navigators, tanker pilots, and weapons officers - those who specialize in operating in flight arms - loadmasters, and varied officer and enlisted aircrew positions.

In the 2004 Air Force 19.6 % of the force was female.
*18.2 percent of the officers were women and 20 percent of the enlisted corps was women.
* 60.2 percent of the female officers are line officers; 39.8 percent are non-line.
*The population of women in the Air Force was 73,074.
* Women first began entering pilot training in 1976, fighter pilot training in July 1993 and navigator training in 1977.
*2004 there were 519 (3.8 percent) female pilots and 195 (4.1 percent) female navigators and over 600 enlisted crew members.

Women first began entering pilot training in 1976, fighter pilot training in July 1993 and navigator training in 1977.
Currently - 2005-06 - there are 568 (4.1 percent) female pilots and 210 (4.6 percent) female navigators.

http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/pilots.html

 

[Keysersoze]

Women as fighter pilots?? How successful they will be is anybody’s guess. I would like to put you guys in the shoes of a fighter pilot and then decide for yourself.

It’s June, noon, temperature around 50 degrees C and humidity 80%, PAF Base Mianwali, Main Tarmac. Around 40 aircrafts ( FT-5 & F-7s) neatly parked in three rows. You leave squadrons building for a low level strike to Dhok Pathan Bridge, you pick your helmet and walk towards the flight lines. Second mission of the day is about to start up. It’s difficult to do the exterior inspection because the panels are so so hot that you cant check them properly. Drop tanks burning with heat. Heat has already started to take a toll on your body and you are sweating badly. You get into the aircraft but cannot touch the stick and switches. Crew chief straps you; you wear your helmet, connect the G-suit hose and R/T lead , lock the canopy down and wait for the IP.

By the time you start ,your coverall is completely wet with the sweat. You Startup, taxi and finally line up. The pressure of accurate navigation ahead and making your target good is immense. Finally your left hand goes full forward and the right gradually comes back. Out of traffic pattern you set course on first heading trying to maintain 250 feet AGL accurately on altimeter. Pressure is continuously mounting. At first turn in point, you are late by 15 seconds and off track by half nautical mile. Guy in the back seat ( GIBS) is not at all happy. You start to panic and tire your self badly. Once you enter the Murid area, Cherat Control wants you to make a dog leg because two A-5s are doing lo level GCI around Murid. You get into more panic but control your wits and make the second and third turning points good. Atlast you reach your IP, pullup but its too late. You miss the target because you never selected the switches in panic. GIBS start to shout more and more and you wish for a moment that either he or you shouldn’t had been there. Finally you recover, land taxi back and switch off. Sweaty, tired and heart broken you walk back to squadron. Your legs are shaking with weakness and dehydration is taking its toll. After a nightmarish debrief from instructor you retreat your self in cool environments of crew room. Suddenly one of your coursemates informs you that because of unfitness of one of the pilots you are scheduled for 1V1 mission and instructor is calling for a brief. And the whole chain of event starts again.............

Its not a fiction but just a highlight of the situation one faces during training and even later on. The purpose of the narration was that its a tough life out there. Not only physically but one has to be mentally fit to take any beating.

Fighter flying in one of the loveliest thing in the world but it comes with a price. I have seen well built guys crumbling under the pressures. I know people refusing flying because they couldn’t handle the pressures. It’s a dog eat dog life out there.


Once you are done with your operational conversion, the squadron life begins. Its tough. Everybody is good and very professional. You have to prove yourself. Ops conversion, pair leader, section leader, nights ops, specialised weapons ops, Air combat, deployments, exercises ….training never seems to end and with each stage the things get difficult and challenging.

I have no doubts about the mental strength of our women, they are hardworking and professional. But the big question is that do you really think that they will be able to take this physical beating for next 17 to 18 years as a fighter pilot??? Don’t think that USAF/USN or Marine has pilots flying F-16/F-18 etc. Consider our culture and environments. They will have to leave their infants behind because she has to go to Jacobabad for a month for HiMark. She will have to ADAs at day as well as night. She will be deploying for long durations at Forward operating bases.

Lady Fighter Pilot: it looks very trendy and chic situation, but, will it really work for us. Can a poor country afford such luxury? Will they be able to give a long service? Will their male colleagues accept them on a role which had been their domain? Will they be able to withstand the physical pressures of fighter flying? Will they be able to take split second decisions in a multi bogey scenario? And, will they be able to lead a strike of 10 aircrafts well into enemy territory at night and 250 feet AGL ?

I think its anybody’s guess that how they will perform in years to come. I wish our female pilots all the success in their future pursuits and hope they prove everyone wrong who thinks that they can’t do it.

Hey this looks really familiar to me.......I think I have read it elsewhere...do you have a link?

 

[A.Rahman]

Hey this looks really familiar to me.......I think I have read it elsewhere...do you have a link?

yea, I think its from Pakdef.

 

[Muradk]

Son please Dont use Air Force terms it will be easier for the members to Understand.

Women have been a part of PAF before my time but doing all ground duties, In the early 80s this question came up when ACM Shamim was CNC and we would get stuck when the above issues came up every single time. The biggest question was what if she ends up on the wrong side of the fence Specially during War. Eventually female Pilots will have to choose between a JF-17 or a Tall Dark Handsome fella. Well if I were in there place I would choose
.JF-17 it got more thr---

 

[Neo]

Eventually female Pilots will have to choose between a JF-17 or a Tall Dark Handsome fella. Well if I were in there place I would choose
.JF-17 it got more thr---

Whaaahahahaha....rofl...lamo
No comment though...

 

[Keysersoze]

Son please Dont use Air Force terms it will be easier for the members to Understand.

Women have been a part of PAF before my time but doing all ground duties, In the early 80s this question came up when ACM Shamim was CNC and we would get stuck when the above issues came up every single time. The biggest question was what if she ends up on the wrong side of the fence Specially during War. Eventually female Pilots will have to choose between a JF-17 or a Tall Dark Handsome fella. Well if I were in there place I would choose
.JF-17 it got more thr---

What if the tall dark fellow was a fellow pilot? or ground crewman? then I doubt it would be as much of a problem. The issue would of course be if she became pregnant. That would prevent her from attending her duties for a extended period. And considering the cost to train her then it becomes a issue.

But that is more of a sociological issue rather than a issue of capability.

 

[niaz]

I have no doubt that in country with 80 -million women ( half the population) we can find women who are tough enough and competent to perform all GD pilot duties.

My objection, posted earlier in another thread, remains that in a country with large male unemployment; I myself tried to get into PAF via PAF Public School Sargodha without success; I know how many young men want to join PAF, if you take in women cadets some deserving bread earning males would be left out.

If there were no men available, women should join PAF as GD Pilots. However in today's environment, specailly what is likely to happen if she is shot down over hostile territory, I am not in favour of women in areas which puts their life in danger.

 

[Adux]

Women can take care of themseleves better than men in my opinion. Mentally far more tougher

 

[x_man]

Hi Keysersoze and AR Rahman

DO you two ever see any positive aspect in anything. Why are you guys adament on picking on people who have never fingered you in anyway. Comeon guys, world is a nice place and life is beautiful, enjoy it, live a fuller life and see only the positive aspects of things.

When you had nothing else to say then you two decided to come up with a claim which had no proof. I spent my few hours to create a scenario in a hope that people will have a glimpse of what goes in the cockpit and it will generate some good discussion.

Well if you guys believe that what you said then for the benefit of us all can you please let us know that which were those issues where you read all this before? Please be specific this time? And if you have any doubt about my profession, please ask Sir MUradK....we have been discussing few things in private messages...and he doesent have any doubts now....

 

[Keysersoze]

Hi Keysersoze and AR Rahman

DO you two ever see any positive aspect in anything. Why are you guys adament on picking on people who have never fingered you in anyway. Comeon guys, world is a nice place and life is beautiful, enjoy it, live a fuller life and see only the positive aspects of things.

When you had nothing else to say then you two decided to come up with a claim which had no proof. I spent my few hours to create a scenario in a hope that people will have a glimpse of what goes in the cockpit and it will generate some good discussion.

Well if you guys believe that what you said then for the benefit of us all can you please let us know that which were those issues where you read all this before? Please be specific this time? And if you have any doubt about my profession, please ask Sir MUradK....we have been discussing few things in private messages...and he doesent have any doubts now....

I have merely read the article elsewhere it sounds REALLY familiar. I will check through a few magazines I was sent to check this. thanks!
Also I have joined the discussion and made a few points. So I don't know where your criticism is coming from........

 

[Muradk]

Ok Guys I think we had a lot of fun for the last 24hr. He is she and she is he but lets get things moving.

A point was raised that what if the Female Pilots gets married to a male Pilot things should workout.
If she gets married to a Male GDP things will become more complicated for both of them. He is on JF-17s lets suppose and she ends up on a Mirage or C130 or any other plane, His base is in Sargodha and hers in Chaklala Rawalpindi then what, They see each other once a month.
Lets figure out few ways and if it works, some one like me can pass it to AHQ that PFF members came up with this. That will be a good PR thing for the mods and for the forum as well. so what do all say.
Remember this is in Pakistan not UK or USA.
1/. A very few men will like to be stay home Husbands it works in USA but will not work in Pakistan and we all know why.
2/. All the female pilots be transfered to 6 SQD, VIP SQD, in other words they will always be in Chaklala Rawalpindi.
3/. Right now this is what AHQ says ( Dakhi Jai GI JAB WAQT AYA GA ).

 

[Keysersoze]

Ok how about having a agreement where female pilots are based in a location close to family homes. It may preclude them from some of the better assignments, but they would still get to fly.
Or maybe they can be thought of as "reserve pilots" when they get married. They maintain their flight status (and get paid "pro rata") When a situation occurs there is a instant pool of ready to go pilots.(which would help reduce pilot fatigue etc etc during extended operations.)

 

[nina]

I have no doubt that in country with 80 -million women ( half the population) we can find women who are tough enough and competent to perform all GD pilot duties.

My objection, posted earlier in another thread, remains that in a country with large male unemployment; I myself tried to get into PAF via PAF Public School Sargodha without success; I know how many young men want to join PAF, if you take in women cadets some deserving bread earning males would be left out.

If there were no men available, women should join PAF as GD Pilots. However in today's environment, specailly what is likely to happen if she is shot down over hostile territory, I am not in favour of women in areas which puts their life in danger.

MY GOD
i have never heard such discrimination in my life before
any one agreeing with this let me make this clear there are women out there in pakistan who are main bread winner for their families and there is no such things having more qouta for men for that reason or for any other reason.
men and women have to compete to get into PAF on cradit and the deserving ones gets the job.

 

[nina]

Women as fighter pilots?? How successful they will be is anybody’s guess. I would like to put you guys in the shoes of a fighter pilot and then decide for yourself.

It’s June, noon, temperature around 50 degrees C and humidity 80%, PAF Base Mianwali, Main Tarmac. Around 40 aircrafts ( FT-5 & F-7s) neatly parked in three rows. You leave squadrons building for a low level strike to Dhok Pathan Bridge, you pick your helmet and walk towards the flight lines. Second mission of the day is about to start up. It’s difficult to do the exterior inspection because the panels are so so hot that you cant check them properly. Drop tanks burning with heat. Heat has already started to take a toll on your body and you are sweating badly. You get into the aircraft but cannot touch the stick and switches. Crew chief straps you; you wear your helmet, connect the G-suit hose and R/T lead , lock the canopy down and wait for the IP.

By the time you start ,your coverall is completely wet with the sweat. You Startup, taxi and finally line up. The pressure of accurate navigation ahead and making your target good is immense. Finally your left hand goes full forward and the right gradually comes back. Out of traffic pattern you set course on first heading trying to maintain 250 feet AGL accurately on altimeter. Pressure is continuously mounting. At first turn in point, you are late by 15 seconds and off track by half nautical mile. Guy in the back seat ( GIBS) is not at all happy. You start to panic and tire your self badly. Once you enter the Murid area, Cherat Control wants you to make a dog leg because two A-5s are doing lo level GCI around Murid. You get into more panic but control your wits and make the second and third turning points good. Atlast you reach your IP, pullup but its too late. You miss the target because you never selected the switches in panic. GIBS start to shout more and more and you wish for a moment that either he or you shouldn’t had been there. Finally you recover, land taxi back and switch off. Sweaty, tired and heart broken you walk back to squadron. Your legs are shaking with weakness and dehydration is taking its toll. After a nightmarish debrief from instructor you retreat your self in cool environments of crew room. Suddenly one of your coursemates informs you that because of unfitness of one of the pilots you are scheduled for 1V1 mission and instructor is calling for a brief. And the whole chain of event starts again.............

Its not a fiction but just a highlight of the situation one faces during training and even later on. The purpose of the narration was that its a tough life out there. Not only physically but one has to be mentally fit to take any beating.

Fighter flying in one of the loveliest thing in the world but it comes with a price. I have seen well built guys crumbling under the pressures. I know people refusing flying because they couldn’t handle the pressures. It’s a dog eat dog life out there.


Once you are done with your operational conversion, the squadron life begins. Its tough. Everybody is good and very professional. You have to prove yourself. Ops conversion, pair leader, section leader, nights ops, specialised weapons ops, Air combat, deployments, exercises ….training never seems to end and with each stage the things get difficult and challenging.

I have no doubts about the mental strength of our women, they are hardworking and professional. But the big question is that do you really think that they will be able to take this physical beating for next 17 to 18 years as a fighter pilot??? Don’t think that USAF/USN or Marine has pilots flying F-16/F-18 etc. Consider our culture and environments. They will have to leave their infants behind because she has to go to Jacobabad for a month for HiMark. She will have to ADAs at day as well as night. She will be deploying for long durations at Forward operating bases.

Lady Fighter Pilot: it looks very trendy and chic situation, but, will it really work for us. Can a poor country afford such luxury? Will they be able to give a long service? Will their male colleagues accept them on a role which had been their domain? Will they be able to withstand the physical pressures of fighter flying? Will they be able to take split second decisions in a multi bogey scenario? And, will they be able to lead a strike of 10 aircrafts well into enemy territory at night and 250 feet AGL ?

I think its anybody’s guess that how they will perform in years to come. I wish our female pilots all the success in their future pursuits and hope they prove everyone wrong who thinks that they can’t do it.

none of this suggest a female pilote wont be compatible for any of the above scenarios.
its like saying hey you are a woman can you take the 50 degree heat and think as fast as me........can you sweat? whats that..?..............its a bit like saying do you have 2 legs and 2 eyes like me.??????
off course women can do it but it does takes a certain type of personality but rest is all traninig if a fat lazy man can be trained to fly a fighter jet then so can a smart healthy intellegent woman be.