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Can India beat China at its own game?

Bl[i]tZ

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The Chinese play a game called Wei qi. It is like chess, but with a different philosophy. While a chess player seeks absolute victory by checkmating the opponent’s king, a Wei qi player seeks a strategic edge by encircling the opponent’s pieces. In chess, you have the advantage of knowing the placement of all your opponent’s pieces. But, in Wei qi, strategy unfolds gradually. Pieces are deployed as the game progresses.

In making the comparison between the two strategy games in his recent work, On China, former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger traces the origins of China’s “distinctive military theory” to a period of upheaval, when ruthless struggles between rival kingdoms decimated China’s population.

Reacting to this slaughter, Chinese thinkers, he says, developed strategic thought that placed a premium on “victory through psychological advantage” and “preached the avoidance of direct conflict.” What makes China’s case more of an enigma is that it still invokes its millennia old strategic principles in its dealings with the modern world, and fiercely adheres to them.

Wei qi originated in China, and chess in India. As chants for an India-China ‘showdown’ grow louder, a senior Indian diplomat cautions that “nobody has a good understanding of China.”

Global power

The two sides were expected to sit across the table from Monday in New Delhi for the 15th time for Special Representatives’ talks on the border dispute, but there has been a last minute postponement and new dates are yet to be announced. Last year too, India had suspended the talks after China denied a visa to Northern Army Commander Lt Gen BS Jaswal because he came from the “sensitive” J&K, which China considers “disputed territory”, a pro-Pakistan shift from its earlier stand that J&K is an India-Pakistan bilateral dispute.

Outwardly, there appears little movement between Beijing and New Delhi. “China’s primary objective,” says former national security advisor, Brajesh Mishra, “is to have no rival in Asia. Otherwise, how can they claim to be a global power of the standing of the United States?”

It’s precisely for this reason, he says, China has for some years now been supporting Pakistan with money, arms and infrastructure. “Their purpose is to keep India embroiled in South Asia. By working with Pakistan in ***, it enlarges the scope for this scenario,” says Mishra.

China has a strategic intent to dominate *** in general and Gilgit Baltistan in particular, says IDSA, a Delhi-based think tank, in its *** Project Report. “This area is contiguous to its own Xinjiang province where Muslim separatist feelings are strong. Along with Tibet, Xinjiang has become a particularly large belt of instability for China.”

Former foreign secretary Kanwal Sibal says “Azad Kashmir is strategically very important for them. The Chinese want to be there in the scenario of a collapse of the Pakistani state.” He says China is one country which has strategically harmed India the most.

“They are upgrading in Tibet, pumping money and nuclear missile technology into Pakistan, developing Gwadar, interfering in Nepal, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka, creating a ‘pearl of strings’ in the Indian ocean, which can also be interpreted as their naval presence in the region. That’s why we have stepped up our naval exercises.”


In January last year, the Pakistani side of the strategic Karakoram Highway connecting Pakistan with the Xinjiang region in China was blocked by landslides in the Attabad area of Gilgit-Baltistan. Pakistan turned to China for help, and China saw an opportunity. The New York Times reported that China had stationed 11,000 PLA regulars in the Gilgit-Baltistan region.

NYT claimed that through ***, the Chinese were looking at unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf region and the link-up would enable Beijing to transport cargo and oil tankers from eastern China to the new Chinese built Pakistani naval base at Gawadar, Pasni and Ormara in Balochistan, just east of the Gulf, in 48 hours.

South China Sea

In the South China Sea, on which China claims its sovereign right, the Chinese strategy has had to counter several factors, including a growing Indian assertiveness, and the uncomfortable presence of the US which has minced no words in claiming they are back in South East Asia for strategic reasons, though not containment of China. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to Bali for the ASEAN summit came against the backdrop of a build-up of tension between the two countries over India’s oil exploration pact with Vietnam in the South China Sea. During their 55-minute bilateral meeting, Singh reportedly told Wen Jiabao India’s oil and gas exploration was a “commercial activity” and “issues of sovereignty should be resolved according to international law.”

Professor Madhu Bhalla who teaches Chinese Studies at Delhi University says the Chinese “irredentist” attitude towards territory has its roots in China’s history, its ancient philosophy of the “middle kingdom” with a “mandate from heaven,” and with peripheral nations as its vassals. “The ‘century of humiliation’ starting with Britain’s opium wars in the mid-19th century have left a deep mark on the Chinese psyche. So, any attempt at a ‘separation’ of their ‘territory’ reminds them of the past. That history is kept intact in their culture, songs, school syllabus, and cinema. It’s the political folklore in China, and breeds a sense of super-nationalism in the Chinese.”

But a senior army officer says the situation is less scary than projected. “Everyone wants influence and China is no different. The Chinese are building roads, but so are we, though not at their pace,” he says, dismissing suggestions of the Indian approach being reactive. “They started modernising in 1978. We started in 1991,” he argues. “Infrastructure is weak on our side. But if you compare the two sides, the terrain on the Chinese side is flat and open, whereas on our side the terrain friction is very high.”

Prof Bhalla also points out that in a globalised world most things are seen in the context of multilateral engagements. “China also realises that it has gained a lot from engagement in multilateral fora,” she says, pointing out that the US and Japan, whom China perceives as its biggest threat, are also its largest trading partners. “Can they cease all trade with the US and Japan?” Trade between India and China has also been rising. This year it reached $70 billion. By 2015, both countries want it to reach $100 billion.

India and China, she says, are encountering each other at several places and we have common neighbours. “So, it’s not just about what they do, but what we do. The challenge for India is to deliver mutually acceptable programmes in its neighbourhood,” she adds.


Aid diplomacy
The Indian diplomatic community has been engaged in hectic diplomatic parleys. In the last 6-7 months alone, India has inked important agreements in the Central, South and South East Asian regions including a strategic agreement with Afghanistan, and trade agreements with Bangladesh, Nepal, Vietnam, South Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, and the Maldives.

India has also been engaged in extended Lines of Credit, including $5 billion to Africa this year.

“Over 40 African countries have availed of over a hundred Indian Lines of Credit so far, aggregating over US $ 4.2 billion. In 2010-11, 14 Lines of Credits amounting to over US $ 1 billion were approved. The list continues to grow,” India’s external affairs minister SM Krishna said at the inauguration of an Indian LoC conference in Delhi last week.

Prof Bhalla however points out that India is in no position to compete financially with China $6 trillion economic might. But India can capitalise on soft power. India’s approach is to better the lives of people they are engaging with, unlike the Chinese mercantilist approach. “In Tanzania a lot of the local market has been taken over by China. They are in Sudan where they have been buying up corrupt leaderships. People get nothing. There is a lot of resentment against China. In Saindak copper and gold mines in Pakistan, Gwadar, everywhere they bring in their own people. Local populations that are mired in poverty get nothing.” In Hambantota, Sri Lankan officials have admitted in the past that local people have been unable to find work because China employed around 7,000 Chinese workers.

“India has been working with democratic governments, building institutions, imparting technical skills. Their credibility is much higher. Africans don’t see India as a threat.”

Can India beat China at its own game? - Analysis - DNA
 
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India has started playing the GAME just now whereas China has been playing it since long
But the moves India has made has alarmed seasonal player and is feeling the heat...( see Chinese reaction below and in other threads).
Today,India is playing the game directly with the mastermind , not the pawn (pakistan) and thus reduced pakistan to a non entity and graduated itself to a higher league.
I had long been an advocate of India doing China to China.
Unless U pose a threat to other, other will not take U seriously.
Ans I think , China would have to come to reasonable ,just and rational terms with India or it's ambition of Global power will be tied down with India. ( As they tried to do to India via pakistan)

.....Fear cuts both ways ....
 
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In the coming decades India's vibrant youth is our biggest advantage to continue our economic growth. Where as China's one child policy will make them an older country.
China has hegemonic mindset Unlike China, India won't think they are at the center of the world and Han Chinese are superior to all like nazis.
Chinese rulers in the past had a mind set of sucking the blood out of common people like tyrants and the current CCP similar to Chinese aristocracy in the past.
I give thumbs up to India in the coming decades.
 
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Bl[i]tZ;2331050 said:
The Chinese play a game called Wei qi. It is like chess, but with a different philosophy. While a chess player seeks absolute victory by checkmating the opponent’s king, a Wei qi player seeks a strategic edge by encircling the opponent’s pieces. In chess, you have the advantage of knowing the placement of all your opponent’s pieces. But, in Wei qi, strategy unfolds gradually. Pieces are deployed as the game progresses.

In making the comparison between the two strategy games in his recent work, On China, former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger traces the origins of China’s “distinctive military theory” to a period of upheaval, when ruthless struggles between rival kingdoms decimated China’s population.

Reacting to this slaughter, Chinese thinkers, he says, developed strategic thought that placed a premium on “victory through psychological advantage” and “preached the avoidance of direct conflict.” What makes China’s case more of an enigma is that it still invokes its millennia old strategic principles in its dealings with the modern world, and fiercely adheres to them.

Wei qi originated in China, and chess in India. As chants for an India-China ‘showdown’ grow louder, a senior Indian diplomat cautions that “nobody has a good understanding of China.”

Global power

The two sides were expected to sit across the table from Monday in New Delhi for the 15th time for Special Representatives’ talks on the border dispute, but there has been a last minute postponement and new dates are yet to be announced. Last year too, India had suspended the talks after China denied a visa to Northern Army Commander Lt Gen BS Jaswal because he came from the “sensitive” J&K, which China considers “disputed territory”, a pro-Pakistan shift from its earlier stand that J&K is an India-Pakistan bilateral dispute.

Outwardly, there appears little movement between Beijing and New Delhi. “China’s primary objective,” says former national security advisor, Brajesh Mishra, “is to have no rival in Asia. Otherwise, how can they claim to be a global power of the standing of the United States?”

It’s precisely for this reason, he says, China has for some years now been supporting Pakistan with money, arms and infrastructure. “Their purpose is to keep India embroiled in South Asia. By working with Pakistan in ***, it enlarges the scope for this scenario,” says Mishra.

China has a strategic intent to dominate *** in general and Gilgit Baltistan in particular, says IDSA, a Delhi-based think tank, in its *** Project Report. “This area is contiguous to its own Xinjiang province where Muslim separatist feelings are strong. Along with Tibet, Xinjiang has become a particularly large belt of instability for China.”

Former foreign secretary Kanwal Sibal says “*** is strategically very important for them. The Chinese want to be there in the scenario of a collapse of the Pakistani state.” He says China is one country which has strategically harmed India the most.

“They are upgrading in Tibet, pumping money and nuclear missile technology into Pakistan, developing Gwadar, interfering in Nepal, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka, creating a ‘pearl of strings’ in the Indian ocean, which can also be interpreted as their naval presence in the region. That’s why we have stepped up our naval exercises.”


In January last year, the Pakistani side of the strategic Karakoram Highway connecting Pakistan with the Xinjiang region in China was blocked by landslides in the Attabad area of Gilgit-Baltistan. Pakistan turned to China for help, and China saw an opportunity. The New York Times reported that China had stationed 11,000 PLA regulars in the Gilgit-Baltistan region.

NYT claimed that through ***, the Chinese were looking at unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf region and the link-up would enable Beijing to transport cargo and oil tankers from eastern China to the new Chinese built Pakistani naval base at Gawadar, Pasni and Ormara in Balochistan, just east of the Gulf, in 48 hours.

South China Sea

In the South China Sea, on which China claims its sovereign right, the Chinese strategy has had to counter several factors, including a growing Indian assertiveness, and the uncomfortable presence of the US which has minced no words in claiming they are back in South East Asia for strategic reasons, though not containment of China. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to Bali for the ASEAN summit came against the backdrop of a build-up of tension between the two countries over India’s oil exploration pact with Vietnam in the South China Sea. During their 55-minute bilateral meeting, Singh reportedly told Wen Jiabao India’s oil and gas exploration was a “commercial activity” and “issues of sovereignty should be resolved according to international law.”

Professor Madhu Bhalla who teaches Chinese Studies at Delhi University says the Chinese “irredentist” attitude towards territory has its roots in China’s history, its ancient philosophy of the “middle kingdom” with a “mandate from heaven,” and with peripheral nations as its vassals. “The ‘century of humiliation’ starting with Britain’s opium wars in the mid-19th century have left a deep mark on the Chinese psyche. So, any attempt at a ‘separation’ of their ‘territory’ reminds them of the past. That history is kept intact in their culture, songs, school syllabus, and cinema. It’s the political folklore in China, and breeds a sense of super-nationalism in the Chinese.”

But a senior army officer says the situation is less scary than projected. “Everyone wants influence and China is no different. The Chinese are building roads, but so are we, though not at their pace,” he says, dismissing suggestions of the Indian approach being reactive. “They started modernising in 1978. We started in 1991,” he argues. “Infrastructure is weak on our side. But if you compare the two sides, the terrain on the Chinese side is flat and open, whereas on our side the terrain friction is very high.”

Prof Bhalla also points out that in a globalised world most things are seen in the context of multilateral engagements. “China also realises that it has gained a lot from engagement in multilateral fora,” she says, pointing out that the US and Japan, whom China perceives as its biggest threat, are also its largest trading partners. “Can they cease all trade with the US and Japan?” Trade between India and China has also been rising. This year it reached $70 billion. By 2015, both countries want it to reach $100 billion.

India and China, she says, are encountering each other at several places and we have common neighbours. “So, it’s not just about what they do, but what we do. The challenge for India is to deliver mutually acceptable programmes in its neighbourhood,” she adds.


Aid diplomacy
The Indian diplomatic community has been engaged in hectic diplomatic parleys. In the last 6-7 months alone, India has inked important agreements in the Central, South and South East Asian regions including a strategic agreement with Afghanistan, and trade agreements with Bangladesh, Nepal, Vietnam, South Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, and the Maldives.

India has also been engaged in extended Lines of Credit, including $5 billion to Africa this year.

“Over 40 African countries have availed of over a hundred Indian Lines of Credit so far, aggregating over US $ 4.2 billion. In 2010-11, 14 Lines of Credits amounting to over US $ 1 billion were approved. The list continues to grow,” India’s external affairs minister SM Krishna said at the inauguration of an Indian LoC conference in Delhi last week.

Prof Bhalla however points out that India is in no position to compete financially with China $6 trillion economic might. But India can capitalise on soft power. India’s approach is to better the lives of people they are engaging with, unlike the Chinese mercantilist approach. “In Tanzania a lot of the local market has been taken over by China. They are in Sudan where they have been buying up corrupt leaderships. People get nothing. There is a lot of resentment against China. In Saindak copper and gold mines in Pakistan, Gwadar, everywhere they bring in their own people. Local populations that are mired in poverty get nothing.” In Hambantota, Sri Lankan officials have admitted in the past that local people have been unable to find work because China employed around 7,000 Chinese workers.

“India has been working with democratic governments, building institutions, imparting technical skills. Their credibility is much higher. Africans don’t see India as a threat.”

Can India beat China at its own game? - Analysis - DNA

What a "brilliant article" from an Indian source.....like Rupee News says many Indians
 
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can india not think about beating china for just one day.......China&India being the most two populated countries should seek for more cooperation and make greater contributions to the good of all mankind,please get over these obsession and hatred with china & pakistan,in china,no one see india as enemy ,but in here i feel that that every indians want to scratch our skin off,it's really creepy.......what your govt did to your mind......
 
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can india not think about beating china for just one day.......China&India being the most two populated countries should seek for more cooperation and make greater contributions to the good of all mankind,please get over these obsession and hatred with china & pakistan,in china,no one see india as enemy ,but in here i feel that that every indians want to scratch our skin off,it's really creepy.......what your govt did to your mind......

Well in real life India CANNOT beat China but at least they are very proud to "beat China" in their dreams.
 
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why india always want to beat china?

Because of HATE and JEALOUSY !!!

India's China Envy
http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/05/20/15270/indias-china-envy/

In India, democracy moves slowly. Some Indians are jealous of the efficiency of the one-party state.

Some citizens of India, the world's largest democracy, find themselves looking jealously at a neighbor with a very different sort of government: China.

Karan Thapar, an Indian columnist, recently took a trip to Beijing. He thought all the shiny buildings and wide, new roads were "awe inspiring." But it was a painful kind of awe.

In the middle of the last century, India and China were in the same place economically. Now China is three times richer. Its childhood malnutrition rate is far lower than India's.

Yes, Indians are free, Thapar says -- free to be poor.

Partha Sen, director of the Delhi School of Economics, says that "democracy in an everyday sense, in terms of getting things the poor need, has clearly not functioned. Somehow democracy has failed us."

Democracy moves slowly. People debate things. Infrastructure -- roads, water, power -- remains underdeveloped.

The Chinese government doesn't have endless parliamentary debates and legal battles. It doesn't ask a lot of questions. It does things -- builds roads, trains, power plants.

"China invests a lot in infrastructure," Sen says. "So China, they are on the ball. We are not."

Eswar Prasad is an economist who has lived in both worlds. He used to be the head of the China division at the International Monetary Fund; now he advises India's government.

"We economists think that a benevolent dictator -- a benevolent dictator with heart in the right place -- could actually do a lot of good," Prasad says.

The problem, he says, is that the economic record of dictators and single party states is not very good. China seems to be an exception.


Jealous India jostles with China for US favour

Hunger Scorecard: China Improves, India Deteriorates - BusinessWeek

China tops India again - BusinessWeek
 
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can india not think about beating china for just one day.......China&India being the most two populated countries should seek for more cooperation and make greater contributions to the good of all mankind,please get over these obsession and hatred with china & pakistan,in china,no one see india as enemy ,but in here i feel that that every indians want to scratch our skin off,it's really creepy.......what your govt did to your mind......

Yes no body is india's enemy.
With several hundreds of missile in tibet and supplying all possible weapons, planes to pakistan

Yes indeed nobody is india's enemy, you are right.
 
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can india not think about beating china for just one day.......China&India being the most two populated countries should seek for more cooperation and make greater contributions to the good of all mankind,please get over these obsession and hatred with china & pakistan,in china,no one see india as enemy ,but in here i feel that that every indians want to scratch our skin off,it's really creepy.......what your govt did to your mind......

I look at it in a different way. China inspires us do do good. China always keep us on our toes to perform better. It's always good to compete with topper in the class. So it's enhance your score too. So we just competitive (sometimes out of context but yes competitiveness is there. Don't take it that seriously.
 
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India have no answer to stop growing peaceful economic Pak-China activity in GB or Azad Kashmir.

India have no expertise to explore oil or gas in deep oceans so this south China sea is just a drama to tease China.

China encircling India is another BS theory India have bad relations with all neighbours so it gives opportunity to China to build up relations and increase economic activity to minimize Indian influence, once again you have to blame yourselves and akhand bharati policy.

Conclusion is India can't play any game on its own, Indian independent foreign policy is dead recent example is USA requesting Australia on Indian behalf to allow sale of Uranium. :lol:
 
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India have no answer to stop growing peaceful economic Pak-China activity in GB or Azad Kashmir.

India have no expertise to explore oil or gas in deep oceans so this south China sea is just a drama to tease China.

China encircling India is another BS theory India have bad relations with all neighbours so it gives opportunity to China to build up relations and increase economic activity to minimize Indian influence, once again you have to blame yourselves and akhand bharati policy.

Conclusion is India can't play any game on its own, Indian independent foreign policy is dead recent example is USA requesting Australia on Indian behalf to allow sale of Uranium. :lol:

Lol stop bringing Kashmir......its going nowhere except maybe, waste bandwidth in PDF.
 
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Yes no body is india's enemy.
With several hundreds of missile in tibet and supplying all possible weapons, planes to pakistan

Yes indeed nobody is india's enemy, you are right.

you watch too many indian news,tibet is not an ideal place to deploy larger number of troops or missiles,most missile are deployed at coastal areas of South of China for preventing taiwan independence .
 
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