Can Gripen E and LCA-Tejas Co-exist in Indian Air force ??

[shree835]

Swedish Saab Aerospace is making all out efforts to secure orders for 90 fighter jets which India is planning to acquire to fill the void left behind after India decided to downsize its initial plans to purchase 126 Dassault Rafale fighter jets from France to 36 and decided to acquire remainder of the jets under separate Government 2 Government deal .

LCA-Tejas lobby in India fears that India going for single engine, a light class fighter like Gripen E will certainly kill indigenously developed homegrown LCA-Tejas program and will cap further development of LCA Mark-II .

Chairman of Saab India, Lars-Olof Lindgren in a recent interview to India media tried to calm fears about Gripen killing LCA-Tejas and assured that both Gripen and LCA-Tejas can co-exist and can benefit by using the same pool of resources and benefit from using common equipment thus ensuring higher availability and reduced operational cost to the user . But the question still remains !! can Gripen and LCA-Tejas really co-exist ?

An Accurate answer to this question could have actually come from Indian Air force its self , since they have already placed orders for 100 Tejas MK-1A and MK-1 aircraft but the void left by retiring Mig-21s and Mig-27s could mean Indian Air force might require 200 more fighter jets to replace fighter jets but officially IAF previously in public domain had said that it plans to acquire 40 Tejas MK-1 and could like to place orders for 86 Mark-II when it is ready for production, which now due to HAL’s offer to develop MK-1A plans have been changed to 20 MK-1 and 100 MK-1A.

While IAF never clearly specified how many of light fighter jets like LCA-Tejas it wants to acquire for its light class of operational fleet but Previous Defence minister A.k Antony once in floor of Parliment had said that IAF eventually will acquire 290 indigenously developed LCA-Tejas which will replace bulk of Mig-21s but current Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has made it amply clear that LCA-Tejas is only fighter jet which will be replacing Mig-21s and MMRCA void will be replaced by another fighter jet which is much more economical than Dassault Rafale fighter jets .

So the Question remains can Defence ministry and air force will be ready to buy and accommodate 250+ LCA Tejas in form of MK-1/MK-1A/MK-II and can also buy Gripen E ??

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

Well, from my POV its very unlikely.

But, LCA definitely can share Gripen components.

 

[kaykay]

Form my POV its very unlikely.

But, LCA definitely can share Gripen components.

Exactly my thoughts. Gripen is an excellent and mature platform but LCA project as a whole is too important to drop for India and Its aviation industry.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Exactly my thoughts. Gripen is an excellent and mature platform but LCA project as a whole is too important to drop for India and Its aviation industry.

point is SAAB is desparate to get a slice of indian market and MOD is not interested

 

[[Bregs]]

If 90 fighters to be made in India are going to be other then Rafale then why Gripen E which is most probably going to kill LCA future models and indigenous industry which will grow with it

 

[volatile]

Its not about commonality i think IAF and Indians have to decide for themselves ,how many types they wanted .
SU30 - Russian
Migs - Russian /Israel for avionics
Mirages - France
Rafale - France (If some how possible)
Jaguars - British /EU
Tejas - USA (For Engine /Israel for Avionics)
Gripen - Sweden (Rest of the world)

Tejas / Gripen will kill each other at the end of the day ,bcas Gripen is slight superior since it is in blocks and Tejas is still far in development . Will be interesting

 

[Agent_47]

• Gripen does not bring anything significant compared to LCA mk2 to IAF. (double cost)
• Adding one more platform in already crowded fleet will only make maintenance and training more difficult.
• Gripen will not help improve LCA without significant commitment because they are competitors in the world market.
• Finmeccanica is banned which will make things even more complicated.
  
• Gripen will seriously threaten next batch of orders of LCA mk2.

 

[Grevion]

What purpose will gripen serve in IAF doctrine?
A lightweight interceptor like Tejas. Then there is no need to buy such an expensive aircraft for that.
Gripen and f-16 both single engine cannot fulfill the IAF requirements as rafale does.

 

[GURU DUTT]

What purpose will gripen serve in IAF doctrine?
A lightweight interceptor like Tejas. Then there is no need to buy such an expensive aircraft for that.
Gripen and f-16 both single engine cannot fulfill the IAF requirements as rafale does.

thing is we have already orderred 272 MKI and once there production run is over "super sukhoi MLU" will start

Rafale will be the mainstay aswell and they are palnned with almost same number as MKIs over all

there still remains the gap that will be there once Mig 21 & 27 are retired and LCA is for that gap cause even with MK1a MLU/version it still is 28-30 million per pop and is almost as capble as grippen E still which is still less than half of grippen so logically why would we go Grippen E ?

 

[posedion]

If swedes can bring the grip to 35 million than we are talking otherwise tejas does the job

 

[PARIKRAMA]

If the doctrine of Indian defence could have stated that

• By year 2040 we require
  • 60 squadron in IAF
  • 20 sqd in IN
• Then assuming light category to be 33% IAF and 25% in IN, we get
  • 20 squadrons IAF
  • 5 squadrons IN
• In a rough estimate 20x20 = 400 and 5x15 =75 or total 475 jets for light category.

If IInstead of eextrapolation, assume a downsize view of 45 sqds in IAF and 10 squads in IN by say 2025-27 then light category is

• 15 squads in IAF or 15x20 = 300 jets
• 2.5 squads for IN or 2.5x15 = 38 jets (close to 40)

Now when you get such clarity then its clear that in a decade we need 340 odd jets of light category with almost 34 jets a year

This is where if LCA production becomes vital

• If LCA prod is 16 jets a year balance becomes 18 jets which both F16 and Gripen E wishes to share at 10 jets a year minimum or single maker at 18 jets a year
• If LCA production is 24 jets a year the balance becomes only one suitor either Gripen or F16 at 10 jets a year.

Logic says better try and hike LCA to minimum 16+8 + a new line of 16 making it 40 jets a year production rate using ppl whom we involve in MII.

IInpresent case when LCA prod is 16 per year any foreign maker gets a bigger pie and in later 24 per year the cost of investments and timeframe will drive up the perjet cost inspite of localisation. Of course capability absorption in a short time is a big question mark for our MIC.

I sincerely feel it's time to officially give one production line to L&T for LCA and make HAL and L&T push up the production rate to 24+16 format and take forward the LCA.

For others we can discuss in separate thread ( FGFA, Rafale,AMCA etc)

 

[GURU DUTT]

If the doctrine of Indian defence could have stated that

• By year 2040 we require
  • 60 squadron in IAF
  • 20 sqd in IN
• Then assuming light category to be 33% IAF and 25% in IN, we get
  • 20 squadrons IAF
  • 5 squadrons IN
• In a rough estimate 20x20 = 400 and 5x15 =75 or total 475 jets for light category.

If IInstead of eextrapolation, assume a downsize view of 45 sqds in IAF and 10 squads in IN by say 2025-27 then light category is

• 15 squads in IAF or 15x20 = 300 jets
• 2.5 squads for IN or 2.5x15 = 38 jets (close to 40)

Now when you get such clarity then its clear that in a decade we need 340 odd jets of light category with almost 34 jets a year

This is where if LCA production becomes vital

• If LCA prod is 16 jets a year balance becomes 18 jets which both F16 and Gripen E wishes to share at 10 jets a year minimum or single maker at 18 jets a year
• If LCA production is 24 jets a year the balance becomes only one suitor either Gripen or F16 at 10 jets a year.

Logic says better try and hike LCA to minimum 16+8 + a new line of 16 making it 40 jets a year production rate using ppl whom we involve in MII.

IInpresent case when LCA prod is 16 per year any foreign maker gets a bigger pie and in later 24 per year the cost of investments and timeframe will drive up the perjet cost inspite of localisation. Of course capability absorption in a short time is a big question mark for our MIC.

I sincerely feel it's time to officially give one production line to L&T for LCA and make HAL and L&T push up the production rate to 24+16 format and take forward the LCA.

For others we can discuss in separate thread ( FGFA, Rafale,AMCA etc)

in short Tejas is the future light fighter of IAF and INAF and there is a big push under MII for the same to rope in couple of international palyers and almost all of the indian players in the field

 

[PARIKRAMA]

in short Tejas is the future light fighter of IAF and INAF and there is a big push under MII for the same to rope in couple of international palyers and almost all of the indian players in the field

Yes but if the production rate and ability to deliver both falters for LCA, a light category in the form of Gripen or F16 will happily meet our requirement once we give them access to MII.

In short it's the lack of confidence on project LCA to meet deadlines and failure of multiple agencies bcz of which a foreign folks like Saab and LM may get an entry and because of Indian Standard Time of production rate they may finally end up with 200 or even 300 jets over next 2+ decades.

GOI needs jets so do IAF and IN . so finally it's our own failure which will make us import jets or use other light fighters under MII. No point blaming AF now as its clear we need to meet deliverables .

Sadly inspite of DM MP publically backing LCA program to the extent that RAfale deal is blocked by him as of now for no proper reason, the result is not so good. Neither LCA production rate is proper nor depleting sqd issue is addressed

 

[randomradio]

IAF wants a minimum number of jets inducted by 2022 and then the full squadron strength by 2027. MoD has realized that they cannot reach that number without multiple lines.

Mk1A production will go on until 2024.

 

[nang2]

there is no shame in killing an obsolete project that drags on and starting a new one.