Bruce Riedel An Impossible Partnership?: Pakistan, America and the Future of South Asia

[singhvivek73]

 

[JonAsad]

Repost !!!!!!

 

[SMC]

I briefly watched this and it's suffice to say that contemporary opinions about ISI such as that portrayed in the video are very much outdated. ISI is NOT providing any aid to Afghan Taliban, Haqqani network, LeT and other terrorist groups. There is no evidence of ISI doing this in recent history, the only evidence goes back decades. The doctrine around supporting these groups no longer exists. Pakistan military has kicked out ALL terrorist groups from the FATA region (or is in the process of doing that through military operations) and those groups are now in Afghanistan.

 

[Storm Force]

Your general's openly threaten neighbours with asymetrical warfare or using terrorists to cause trouble and you say the veiws are outdated.

Obl was found in pakistan are we saying isi and the army had no knowledge

 

[Storm Force]

The guy said Pakistan is a state within a state.

Ie the army and isi function separate to your prime Minster and the people .

It's s mess to be honest

 

[SMC]

Your general's openly threaten neighbours with asymetrical warfare or using terrorists to cause trouble and you say the veiws are outdated.

Obl was found in pakistan are we saying isi and the army had no knowledge

When were such threats made? Do you have the source?

And yes Pakistan was unaware of OBL. Even the US administration believes so, so it doesn't matter what keyboard warrior bharatis think.

Frankly speaking, claims of ISI aiding groups such as Afghan Taliban are mere conspiracy theories. There is NO evidence of support for ISI in the recent past. Claims of support to such groups are outdated and have not kept up with the changes the military and ISI have gone through in the recent history.

 

[MilSpec]

I briefly watched this and it's suffice to say that contemporary opinions about ISI such as that portrayed in the video are very much outdated. ISI is NOT providing any aid to Afghan Taliban, Haqqani network, LeT and other terrorist groups. There is no evidence of ISI doing this in recent history, the only evidence goes back decades. The doctrine around supporting these groups no longer exists. Pakistan military has kicked out ALL terrorist groups from the FATA region (or is in the process of doing that through military operations) and those groups are now in Afghanistan.

what is recent?

 

[Rafi]

LoL - this guy is crazy, the US is already back to funding our Armed Forces with major program's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[SMC]

what is recent?

The last ~5 years at a minimum.

LoL - this guy is crazy, the US is already back to funding our Armed Forces with major program's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

That is the thing as well. If we were aiding these groups, why would US be funding our military and also selling us weapons?

 

[Rafi]

The last ~5 years at a minimum.



That is the thing as well. If we were aiding these groups, why would US be funding our military and also selling us weapons?

Exactly the US is learning that what they were told by the Afghans was a crock of $hit.

 

[Hiptullha]

Frankly speaking, claims of ISI aiding groups such as Afghan Taliban are mere conspiracy theories. There is NO evidence of support for ISI in the recent past. Claims of support to such groups are outdated and have not kept up with the changes the military and ISI have gone through in the recent history.

It's not exactly a conspiracy theory. The attempt to gain strategic depth in Afghanistan meant the military supported the Taliban.
Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather"?
The only problem with supporting the Taliban was it spilled onto our side, which was something that should have been controlled. I don't see anything wrong with it. Russia, China, Iran, India and the US were all poking their noses into the conflict, promoting their own fighters, some drug lords, others who were feudal masters and tribal leaders with the same disregard for human rights as the Taliban. Americans trying to take the moral high ground should remember that they weren't exactly innocent either. Those from Russia/China/India should be reminded that they're currently supporting pedophiles and warlords.

 

[SMC]

It's not exactly a conspiracy theory. The attempt to gain strategic depth in Afghanistan meant the military supported the Taliban.
Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather"?
The only problem with supporting the Taliban was it spilled onto our side, which was something that should have been controlled. I don't see anything wrong with it. Russia, China, Iran, India and the US were all poking their noses into the conflict, promoting their own fighters, some drug lords, others who were feudal masters and tribal leaders with the same disregard for human rights as the Taliban. Americans trying to take the moral high ground should remember that they weren't exactly innocent either. Those from Russia/China/India should be reminded that they're currently supporting pedophiles and warlords.

Even so, this claim has not kept up with the time. Pakistan no longer supports such groups, even if it may have done so in the Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

The last ~5 years at a minimum.

OK, Mullen and Leon Panetta accusing Pakistan of backing Haqqani network
Year - 2011, i.e. 3 years...
US military chief accuses Pakistan of backing terror group | World news | The Guardian

"Navy Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said Pakistani duplicity puts in jeopardy not only the frayed US-Pakistani partnership against terrorism, but also the outcome to the decade-old war in Afghanistan."

"Testifying alongside Mullen, US defense secretary Leon Panetta also decried Pakistani support for the Haqqani network, and he said Pakistani authorities have been told that the US will not tolerate a continuation of the group's cross-border attacks."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/w...attack-on-us-embassy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

2011- 3 years

Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went further than any other American official in blaming the ISI for undermining the American effort in Afghanistan. His remarks were certain to further fray America’s shaky relationship with Pakistan, a nominal ally.

CIA Director David Petraeus met this week with Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, chief of the ISI, to warn him against supporting the Haqqanis.

"We have credible intelligence obtained through a series of methods that directly implicate the ISI" in having "knowledge or support" for Haqqani activities, the official told CNN. "The ISI is providing financing, safe haven, advice and guidance" to the Haqqanis.


Are these allegations recent enough then?

 

[SMC]

OK, Mullen and Leon Panetta accusing Pakistan of backing Haqqani network
Year - 2011, i.e. 3 years...
US military chief accuses Pakistan of backing terror group | World news | The Guardian

"Navy Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said Pakistani duplicity puts in jeopardy not only the frayed US-Pakistani partnership against terrorism, but also the outcome to the decade-old war in Afghanistan."
"Testifying alongside Mullen, US defense secretary Leon Panetta also decried Pakistani support for the Haqqani network, and he said Pakistani authorities have been told that the US will not tolerate a continuation of the group's cross-border attacks."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/w...attack-on-us-embassy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

2011- 3 years

Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went further than any other American official in blaming the ISI for undermining the American effort in Afghanistan. His remarks were certain to further fray America’s shaky relationship with Pakistan, a nominal ally.

CIA Director David Petraeus met this week with Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, chief of the ISI, to warn him against supporting the Haqqanis.

"We have credible intelligence obtained through a series of methods that directly implicate the ISI" in having "knowledge or support" for Haqqani activities, the official told CNN. "The ISI is providing financing, safe haven, advice and guidance" to the Haqqanis.

Are these allegations recent enough then?

Obviously this is not the official stance of the US state, i.e Obama/white house. Otherwise they'd not be supporting Pakistan military with funding and military hardware.

 

[MilSpec]

Obviously this is not the official stance of the US state, i.e Obama/white house. Otherwise they'd not be supporting Pakistan military with funding and military hardware.

You wanted recent, I gave you recent, now you are deflecting to military funding, US has also funded ruthless dictatorships, does that absolve those dictatorships as well?