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British Army to slash frontline tanks

Vergennes

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Opinion ? @mike2000 is back @Providence @Kaptaan @Providence @Abingdonboy @Pakistani Exile @Penguin @waz

Recent conflicts all over the world showed us the usefulness of heavy armors,even used in non conventional warfare.
Reason the Dutch decided to save their last Leo2s,France will bring back 25 Leclercs from reserve (Bring total in service to 225) and Germany will increase its tank fleet by 100 to 328. Slowly but surely,it's doing a coming back.
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methode%2Fsundaytimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fc59d1038-b3fe-11e6-a484-48e510ab58d4.jpg


Army chiefs are planning to slash the number of frontline tanks by up to a third, leaving Britain with fewer tanks than Serbia.

Under the plan, one of the army’s three tank regiments will see all its 56 Challenger 2s replaced with Ajax fighting vehicles. The cut would leave the army with only about 40 more tanks than traditionally neutral Switzerland. At the other end of the scale, Russia has 2,700 tanks.

The plan, due to be announced in coming months, has alarmed serving and retired commanders and comes as Russia introduces the T-14 Armata — a new generation of tank that some experts believe has the firepower to defeat any British or American equivalent.

Colonel Bob Stewart, who led British forces in Bosnia, said: “You should only reduce your main battle tank numbers with great caution. Reducing your tank strength may well be misconstrued by our potential opponents and be perceived as weakness in our will to properly defend our country.”

The Ministry of Defence has signed a £3.5bn deal with the US defence company General Dynamics for nearly 600 Ajax vehicles but industry sources have reportedly highlighted their vulnerability to heavy artillery.

With a top speed of 44mph, the 38-ton Ajax is faster than the 62-ton Challenger 2 and is designed for reconnaissance and for quickly penetrating deep into enemy territory.

But it is more lightly armoured and has far less firepower, with a 44mm gun, compared with the Challenger 2’s 120mm long-range gun.

The move would result in the army’s total number of Challenger 2 tanks dropping from 227 to about 170. Of these, some 112 will be on the front line with the two remaining tank regiments; the remainder will be used for training in the UK and Canada. In contrast, Germany has 306 main battle tanks, France 200, Poland 971, Romania 437 and Serbia 212.

The Sunday Times understands that senior commanders are exploring the possibility that some of the culled tanks could be redeployed to reserve units.

The Armata was described by a senior army intelligence officer in a document leaked earlier this month as “the most revolutionary step change in tank design in the last half century”.

It has a powerful 125mm gun and “reactive armour” to destroy incoming rockets and missiles.

The MoD said: “The Challenger 2 fleet is due to have a £700m life extension programme that will ensure capability until 2035. We are also investing in the . . . multi-role Ajax armoured vehicle.”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-to-slash-frontline-tanks-bklxlvt79
 
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Serbia actually have more than 212 tanks. Those 212 are in use in 4 tank battalions of the four land brigades of the Serbian Army (15th, 26th, 36th and 46th tank battalion). Each battalion with 53 tanks (command tank plus four companies with 13 tanks each). Additional tank battalion is formed in reserve Banat brigade. Number of tanks in use by Serbian army:

- 232 M84/A
- 61 T72M.

Interesting thing is that Serbian army tank battalion organization is based on the British model.

Concerning this topic i believe that having just 112 tanks in frontline use, for a country as big as UK is ridiculous. Tanks proved their role in all small and large conflicts in the last few decades. It might not be the same role they used to have, but they proved that heavy armor with a big gun is still irreplaceable in many situations. Just remember how Canada thought to replace Leopard C2 with M1128 Stryker MGS, and than in 2007 in Afganistan reality hit them in the face, and result was buying of additional Leopard 2 tanks. Direct fire capability of heavy armored tank with 120mm gun, can not be replaced with far less armored and armed vehicle.
 
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Opinion ? @mike2000 is back @Providence @Kaptaan @Providence @Abingdonboy @Pakistani Exile @Penguin @waz

Recent conflicts all over the world showed us the usefulness of heavy armors,even used in non conventional warfare.
Reason the Dutch decided to save their last Leo2s,France will bring back 25 Leclercs from reserve (Bring total in service to 225) and Germany will increase its tank fleet by 100 to 328. Slowly but surely,it's doing a coming back.
-
methode%2Fsundaytimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fc59d1038-b3fe-11e6-a484-48e510ab58d4.jpg


Army chiefs are planning to slash the number of frontline tanks by up to a third, leaving Britain with fewer tanks than Serbia.

Under the plan, one of the army’s three tank regiments will see all its 56 Challenger 2s replaced with Ajax fighting vehicles. The cut would leave the army with only about 40 more tanks than traditionally neutral Switzerland. At the other end of the scale, Russia has 2,700 tanks.

The plan, due to be announced in coming months, has alarmed serving and retired commanders and comes as Russia introduces the T-14 Armata — a new generation of tank that some experts believe has the firepower to defeat any British or American equivalent.

Colonel Bob Stewart, who led British forces in Bosnia, said: “You should only reduce your main battle tank numbers with great caution. Reducing your tank strength may well be misconstrued by our potential opponents and be perceived as weakness in our will to properly defend our country.”

The Ministry of Defence has signed a £3.5bn deal with the US defence company General Dynamics for nearly 600 Ajax vehicles but industry sources have reportedly highlighted their vulnerability to heavy artillery.

With a top speed of 44mph, the 38-ton Ajax is faster than the 62-ton Challenger 2 and is designed for reconnaissance and for quickly penetrating deep into enemy territory.

But it is more lightly armoured and has far less firepower, with a 44mm gun, compared with the Challenger 2’s 120mm long-range gun.

The move would result in the army’s total number of Challenger 2 tanks dropping from 227 to about 170. Of these, some 112 will be on the front line with the two remaining tank regiments; the remainder will be used for training in the UK and Canada. In contrast, Germany has 306 main battle tanks, France 200, Poland 971, Romania 437 and Serbia 212.

The Sunday Times understands that senior commanders are exploring the possibility that some of the culled tanks could be redeployed to reserve units.

The Armata was described by a senior army intelligence officer in a document leaked earlier this month as “the most revolutionary step change in tank design in the last half century”.

It has a powerful 125mm gun and “reactive armour” to destroy incoming rockets and missiles.

The MoD said: “The Challenger 2 fleet is due to have a £700m life extension programme that will ensure capability until 2035. We are also investing in the . . . multi-role Ajax armoured vehicle.”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-to-slash-frontline-tanks-bklxlvt79
Armed forces are configured according to percieved threats. Since there is the English Channel and arc of friendlies like yourself and others there is no direct threat to UK from within 1,500 miles arc. Since tanks don't jum and fly that removes direct threat to zero.

This leaves the projection of force in aid of UK foreign policy goals which are mostly done in tandem with other/NATO. Therefore this makes absolute sense. I am not saying tanks are not needed - the US forces in Somalia were taught that brutal lesson. UK defence foces emphasis must be on Royal Navy (carriers) and airforce (next gen stealth).
 
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what will the Brits miss, the big gun or the heavy armour?
 
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LOL, their destroyer will left with only gun and SAM system after most of their harpoon retired, now they will cutting off the number of their MBT. The British starting to lose their sanity.....
 
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I don't know what has happened to UK politics of late. We are regressing each day ! :(
 
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UK is in the process of modernizing some (but not all) Challenger IIs under the Challenger II Life Extension Programme (LEP or CLEP), which aims to extend the life of the Challenger 2 out to 2035.
The LEP includes managing to curb obsolescence in several turret systems – including TI sights, the Fire Control Computer (FCC) and electronic architecture in turret. Improved technology will be integrated as a new system on the platform, which will deliver more accurate engagements at range and improved FCC power, meaning that CR2 will remain a battle winning asset out to the extended out of service date. Parallel work strands will provide extensions to virtual training systems, deliver improved Live Fire Monitoring Equipment (LFME) and work is ongoing to develop improved 120mm ammunition. A recent Ministry of Defence document also identified a "soft kill defensive aid system", the MUSS, (Multifunktionales Selbstschutz-System) for the Challenger 2.
On 2 November 2016 it was reported that teams led by Rheinmetall Landsystem and BAE Systems had been chosen as preferred bidders for the assessment phase of the LEP by the UK MoD. The two contracts are on track to be signed by the end of this year triggering a 24-month assessment program ahead of selection of a winning proposal in 2019. The Rheinmetall consortium includes BMT, Pearson Engineering, Supacat, and Thales UK and includes an option to retrofit Rheinmetall's 120 mm L55 smooth bore gun should additional funds be made available. The BAE team includes General Dynamics UK, Qinetiq, Leonardo, Moog and Safran. Also bidding for the LEP were teams headed by CMI Defence (Belgium), Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (Germany), Lockheed Martin UK, and RUAG Defence (Switzerland). It is expected the LEP modernization program could be worth around £650 million ($802 million) to the eventual winner

So, IMHO it stands to reason to replace unmodernized platforms with new equipment.

On 3 September 2014, the British Government announced the order for 589 Scout SV vehicles ahead of the NATO Summit in Wales on 4 September 2014, totaling a cost of £3.5 billion excluding VAT. A number of Block 2 variants has been merged into the Block 1 order, which still encompassed the planned 589 vehicles.


Pre-production prototype of the Ares (PMRS variant).
The variants ordered include:
  • 245 turreted 'Ajax' variants
    • 198 Reconnaissance and Strike (Ajax)
    • 23 Joint Fire Control (Ajax)
    • 24 Ground Based Surveillance (Ajax)
  • 256 Protected Mobility Recce Support (PMRS) variants
    • 59 Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) (Ares)
    • 112 Command and Control (Athena)
    • 34 Formation Reconnaissance Overwatch (Ares)
    • 51 Engineer Reconnaissance (Argus)
  • 88 Engineering variants based on the PMRS
    • 38 Recovery vehicles (Atlas)
    • 50 Repair vehicles (Apollo)
Further variants, including an ambulance type, are speculated in a future Block 2 order. The vehicles currently on order will be handed over to the British Army from 2017, with the last being delivered around 2026.

Initially, the Ajax was planned to be procured in a number of blocks totalling 1,010 vehicles. With the first order of Block 1 vehicles encompassing Scout Reconnaissance, PMRS APC, and Repair and Recovery variants, with Reconnaissance, C2, and Ambulance variants to follow in a second, Block 2, order. There was even a possibility for a third Block of vehicles encompassing a "Direct Fire" vehicle with a 120mm main gun, "Manoeuvre Support" and a "Joint Fires" variant equipped to succeed the FV102 Striker in the anti-tank role. However, as of September 2014 Block 3 vehicles have been dropped and the Ministry of Defence has said that there are currently "no plans" to order any Block 2 vehicles.

AJAX-family-740x159.jpg


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General Dynamics’s entry for the MPF contest is the Griffin, a vehicle in the 28 to 32 tons range, not air-droppable, armed with a light derivative of the M1 Abrams gun turret and with the british Ascod SV / Ajax chassis as hull.
GD%2BGriffin.jpg

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.nl/2016/10/strike-brigades-only-if-price-is-right.html
 
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