BRICS statement not foreign policy failure, says Asif

[Eagle_storm]

that is some kind of stupid words,
throwing your own dust on others does not make you a winner but will make you a famous looser.
let me have some pashto saying.

yaw kas wo wail e ma sok na pejani sa wakam , cha warta owe larsha da khan pa hujra ki ghul waka, mashahoor ba she ,he did it.

seem like this
indian and afghanistan both are doing this,
which place you have left in the world?
UN,brics whatever?????????????????

the 16 year war wont be ended by making pakistan pressurize for own failure.
it would be a big mistake.

may i have some words of an ex chief.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/we-a...tan-not-other-way-around-ex-cia-chief.515122/


on one side you blame pakistan
on second day we seek help from pakistan.
that is clearly illegitimate from illegitimate nations.

 

[Chhatrapati]

It was not sanction on country, how are you comparing with Iran?

So, when US sanctions Iran, it carries weight. But when it bans a terror outfit, it carries none. When US bans an organization, it will make it difficult to fund such organizations. Rather, if provide proof, the one's who are funding them will also get banned. Since most of the business one way or other connects US.

They will not bcoz they have intersts attached with india, chuck hegal is prime example he spoke before and then turned blind eye..

I don't know why he made that remark. Rather it was his personal remark, may be he was just appeasing the Pakistanis whom he had nice relations. Still you didn't provide any international condemnation on Indian involvement in TTP.

no one also spoke against indian involvement in bengali militancy and Tamil militancy, but it does not mean you are saints. anyways the statement does not refer to Pakistan.

Well, India openly supported Bengali and Tamil militancy. It wasn't secretive at all. All these happen because of millions of refugees pour into Indian territory. We had to stop that. Infact since Tamil militancy we never interfeared in any armed struggle around our neighbors.

Also we denounce the Tamil militancy that's why they turned against us. Resulted in Killing of our PM.

What weight brazil, india carry for Pakistan, other then them this forum not even worth a mention..

Brazil is a large and powerful country. May be you never know because your sphere of influence is South Asia and middle east. Brazil is the most powerful Latin American country. Brazil - Russia - India - China are the emerging economies and still among the most powerful countries. In terms of Military and economy. The only one standing out is South Africa, still it has a better economic stature than any of India's neighbors excluding China.

Who among them accused Pakistani govt of supporting LeM and LET other then bharatis?

Who said anything about Pakistan. The simple fact that they operate with impunity from Pakistan is enough. Our only target was to name these organizations in BRICS declaration. We don't want to name you in that. You are not a country at stage, You were not even invited by China to forum as a guest. So, why we should name them.

Even the last BRICS summit in Goa didn't explicitly name Pakistan.

 

[django]

I think it's time Pakistan asks for the location of haqqani network if it really exists in Pak we should remove it at all costs.
@Arsalan @The Eagle @django if haqqani network truly exist in Pak than we should take action against them (although the possibility is almost nill but sill) and if we have already targeted them in ZEAB which i am sure we have than why aren't we telling this to whole world? guys your opinions?

I truly cannot understand the Afghan position, on one hand they ask us to fight Taliban/Haqqani as hard we can then simultaneously bring them to the negotiating tableDoes anyone in their right mind think we could have any leverage with them once we hit them with all we have, our foreign office needs to do a better job of conveying this message........if Haqqani network is present in Pak, we need to manipulate it too secure our interest in the region ie Gangadeshi consulates are playing their games, we need contractors to reciprocate their actions, you scratch my back I will scratch yours this has been happening since time immemorial, it not going to stop because some guy from afar, with a orange ferret attached to his head tells us to heed to his unrealistic demands.Kudos bro

 

[KN-1]

So, when US sanctions Iran, it carries weight. But when it bans a terror outfit, it carries none. When US bans an organization, it will make it difficult to fund such organizations. Rather, if provide proof, the one's who are funding them will also get banned. Since most of the business one way or other connects US.

HM dont collect their funds from US, it carries no weight since local people can help them.

I don't know why he made that remark. Rather it was his personal remark, may be he was just appeasing the Pakistanis whom he had nice relations. Still you didn't provide any international condemnation on Indian involvement in TTP.

blah blah, you didnt provide linking of any BRICS nation other then bharat who connect LeT to Pakistani govt and its institution, all you are doing is blabbering, why would he appease Pakistan. so when someone say something against you it become appeasing, you are saints..

Well, India openly supported Bengali and Tamil militancy. It wasn't secretive at all. All these happen because of millions of refugees pour into Indian territory. We had to stop that. Infact since Tamil militancy we never interfeared in any armed struggle around our neighbors.

Also we denounce the Tamil militancy that's why they turned against us. Resulted in Killing of our PM.

so it justify Pakistan to support Taliban bcoz we have millions of Pashtun refugees from Afghanistan..NO.. come up with acceptable defence of your state sponsored terrorism.. as if its not clear to the world that you were conspiring with Awami league leadership much before refugee reach your country... what are LET and LEJ, maybe they killed few hundred Indian soldiers and very few civilians. your sponsored terrorists whom you openly supported each killed lacs of people, whether it was Northern alliance in Afghanistan, Tamil Tigers or Mukti Bahini..

Brazil is a large and powerful country. May be you never know because your sphere of influence is South Asia and middle east. Brazil is the most powerful Latin American country. Brazil - Russia - India - China are the emerging economies and still among the most powerful countries. In terms of Military and economy. The only one standing out is South Africa, still it has a better economic stature than any of India's neighbors excluding China.

Brazil can be anything for south America not for us, we both are irrelevant to each other, other then China and Russia.. none even deserve a mention.

Who said anything about Pakistan. The simple fact that they operate with impunity from Pakistan is enough.

rants, not answered my question, since you defended your terror sponsoring nation by saying none accused you of supporting TTP, now you should answer how many of them (BRICS) connected LeT to Pakistan.

 

[The Sandman]

I truly cannot understand the Afghan position, on one hand they ask us to fight Taliban/Haqqani as hard we can then simultaneously bring them to the negotiating tableDoes anyone in their right mind think we could have any leverage with them once we hit them with all we have, our foreign office needs to do a better job of conveying this message........if Haqqani network is present in Pak, we need to manipulate it too secure our interest in the region ie Gangadeshi consulates are playing their games, we need contractors to reciprocate their actions, you scratch my back I will scratch yours this has been happening since time immemorial, it not going to stop because some guy from afar, with a orange ferret attached to his head tells us to heed to his unrealistic demands.Kudos bro

We shouldn't expect anything from Afghan gov tbh they can't even protect themselves it's not them who speaks most of time it's the Delhi who speaks it's the US we need to expose it's their hypocrisy which needs to be exposed imo we kill haqqani network they exterminate TTP completely and all other anti Pak groups and bro this game of using proxies should be stopped because they don't take too much time to turn their gun towards us it's a dangerous game in which one should stay completely out of.

 

[django]

We shouldn't expect anything from Afghan gov tbh they can't even protect themselves it's not them who speaks most of time it's the Delhi who speaks it's the US we need to expose it's their hypocrisy which needs to be exposed imo we kill haqqani network they exterminate TTP completely and all other anti Pak groups and bro this game of using proxies should be stopped because they don't take too much time to turn their gun towards us it's a dangerous game in which one should stay completely out of.

If we take out Haqqani their is no guarantee Afghans/US will take out TTP, in fact RAW will do all it can to protect TTP and even if somehow Afghan do take out TTP, RAW will start to use other contractors ie Afghan spec ops retired/serving (so-called spec ops) ,in fact I believe they are using these guys at this very time, we have to counter this, Haqqani is our asset,,,, whilst the Afghans have dreams on Durand line, Gwadar and KPK they will never give up these groups, any solution to the problem requires them to first accept Durand line and close RAW consulates and only then can we even think about giving up any of our assets.Kudos bro

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

So, when US sanctions Iran, it carries weight. But when it bans a terror outfit, it carries none. When US bans an organization, it will make it difficult to fund such organizations. Rather, if provide proof, the one's who are funding them will also get banned. Since most of the business one way or other connects US.

I don't know why he made that remark. Rather it was his personal remark, may be he was just appeasing the Pakistanis whom he had nice relations. Still you didn't provide any international condemnation on Indian involvement in TTP.

Well, India openly supported Bengali and Tamil militancy. It wasn't secretive at all. All these happen because of millions of refugees pour into Indian territory. We had to stop that. Infact since Tamil militancy we never interfeared in any armed struggle around our neighbors.

Also we denounce the Tamil militancy that's why they turned against us. Resulted in Killing of our PM.

Brazil is a large and powerful country. May be you never know because your sphere of influence is South Asia and middle east. Brazil is the most powerful Latin American country. Brazil -
- India - China are the emerging economies and still among the most powerful countries. In terms of Military and economy. The only one standing out is South Africa, still it has a better economic stature than any of India's neighbors excluding China.

Who said anything about Pakistan. The simple fact that they operate with impunity from Pakistan is enough. Our only target was to name these organizations in BRICS declaration. We don't want to name you in that. You are not a country at stage, You were not even invited by China to forum as a guest. So, why we should name them.
Even the last BRICS summit in Goa didn't explicitly name Pakistan.

Pak should not worry because.
India---- is an emerging economy since 1947.
Russia----We tested its power in afghanistan
China ----You guys just checked its power in Docklam
South Africa---BTW what is the GDP.Less than PAK
Afghanistan----0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0=0

 

[The Sandman]

If we take out Haqqani their is no guarantee Afghans/US will take out TTP, in fact RAW will do all it can to protect TTP and even if somehow Afghan do take out TTP, RAW will start to use other contractors ie Afghan spec ops retired/serving (so-called spec ops) ,in fact I believe they are using these guys at this very time, we have to counter this, Haqqani is our asset,,,, whilst the Afghans have dreams on Durand line, Gwadar and KPK they will never give up these groups, any solution to the problem requires them to first accept Durand line and close RAW consulates and only then can we even think about giving up any of our assets.Kudos bro

Tbh with you bro haqqani network is a terrorist network they target civvies they can't be and shouldn't be our asset at all costs. What we need to do is mine our border and fence it from our side i know it will be an expensive thing to do but we can do it and clean up all the groups that are extremist or are declared as terrorists we've suffered enough no more terrorist or extremist groups once we close our border let the americans and afghans deal with all of the roaches on the other side and shoot on sight whoever attempts to cross into Pak. I want Pakistan to get out of this mess once and for all we've nearly ruined 2 generations in this bloody proxy war it's time to get out of it.

 

[pakistani342]

Definitely a major setback for Pakistan regardless of what the FM is saying, the groups that threaten Afghanistan and the region with roots in Pakistan were mentioned. The final communique has signatures of China and Russia ( two main stakeholders) which Pakistan seem to bank on vis-a-vis US and her policies towards Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Now where does this leave Pakistan? I say Pakistan's policy towards Afghanistan is on life support and in need of urgent pivot. One were Pakistan stops using these groups as a foreign policy tool and deal with Afghan on state-state level.

@Kaptaan :

@pakistani342
----------------------------
https://www.geo.tv/latest/156689-brics-statement-cant-be-termed-foreign-policy-failure-says-asif

It seems the my dear @A-Team, that you and your fellow Afghan compatriots are framing the question incorrectly.

The question is not if it is good or bad for Pakistan. The question is what difference will it make for Afghanistan.

Pakistan may temporarily scale back the support to these groups (it seems it already has done so -- not because any goodness of its heart -- but possibly because other actors will pick up the slack: Iran, Russia). But will the net effect have any tangible benefit to the Afghan people's project?

People are looking for a solution to the Afghan project -- something that can work in a reasonable timeframe, and for a price tag someone is will to foot. And even the people who are for the new Trump policy don't seem to have come up with a solution.

Afghanistan is too far, too insignificant, too fragmented, too poor, too unimaginative to be able to fix -- at least until someone comes up with an idea.

The other day on the sidelines of an event a friend of mine framed the problem very eloquently this way:

In the blue corner we have:
1. The Afghan Commandoes wearing pink uniforms selected by Wardak, sporting RayBans courtesy the US Tax Payer
2. Trained by the mightiest force the world has ever seen with Generals who studied at Princeton, Yale, West Point, Harvard, Stanford
3. 300,000+ in number
4. Defending a democratically elected government
5. Backed by air power
6. Funded to the tune of 6 dollars per year

In the red corner we have:
1. Some weird assed bearded ugly Mollahs clad in cheap plastic flip flops
2. Trained by corrupt generals of a 3rd world country graduates of Gooorrrrnamunt-College-Lahore, PMA, Karachi University, etc.
3. 30,000+ in number
4. oppressing a poor Afghan people
5. no air power support
7. funned to the tune of 1/2 a billion dollars a year through drug trade, extortion and other rackets
8. last but not least: bad body odor ontop of that

What should the result be? The Commandoha(s) should have won many years ago?

Yet now, quoting American Generals and saner thinkers: the momentum is decidedly with the Taliban.

What are we missing? Anybody?

We are turning the tide everyday on the ground as we speak. On the policy side, Pakistan being in the corner and a regional understanding that Pakistan is on the wrong side vis-a-vis Afghanistan a strategic win for us.

Big feat for a country that you consider a no state!!

To give you an idea of the poor situation of Afghanistan -- that the Afghan robotics team in the end were not even given visas -- they were given what is called a parol to come in to the US.

It is mind boggling that the Afghans think that they have gotten something in the new Trump policy.

 

[django]

Tbh with you bro haqqani network is a terrorist network they target civvies they can't be and shouldn't be our asset at all costs. What we need to do is mine our border and fence it from our side i know it will be an expensive thing to do but we can do it and clean up all the groups that are extremist or are declared as terrorists we've suffered enough no more terrorist or extremist groups once we close our border let the americans and afghans deal with all of the roaches on the other side and shoot on sight whoever attempts to cross into Pak. I want Pakistan to get out of this mess once and for all we've nearly ruined 2 generations in this bloody proxy war it's time to get out of it.

The problem is the border is very long and extremely porous, committed folks/terrorists backed by RAW/NDS will find a way across and will cause havoc for our people, institutions etc either we turn the other cheek or we can go after them, how do we go after them, ie they NDS/RAW take out Pashtuns in Baluchestan via BLA to create ethnic strife, we hit the Indian embassy/consulates, who carries the attack out, not Pak army personnel as we want plausible deniability , perhaps some asset of ours???,,,we all know that NDS is in league with TTP, of course they deny it, if we do not use our assets in the region will we instead send in Pak army across Durand line and punish TTP and Afghan army (who deny they have anything to do with TTP even though they know we know that they do), how much will such an operation/s cost in terms of manpower and logistics,it is economically better to use statecraft , I have confidence that our spymasters and military men are treading in the correct path, "Kabul must burn".Kudos bro

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Definitely a major setback for Pakistan regardless of what the FM is saying, the groups that threaten Afghanistan and the region with roots in Pakistan were mentioned. The final communique has signatures of China and Russia ( two main stakeholders) which Pakistan seem to bank on vis-a-vis US and her policies towards Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Now where does this leave Pakistan? I say Pakistan's policy towards Afghanistan is on life support and in need of urgent pivot. One were Pakistan stops using these groups as a foreign policy tool and deal with Afghan on state-state level.

I profoundly disagree with the thrust of what your saying. Let me just lay my thoughts point by point.

1. The use of non state actors as instrument of foreign policy is as old as the hills. America has been the most prolific user of this method of fabricating foreign policy interests. Indeed you in Afghanistan should be actutely aware of a whole myriad of bandits who were sponsored, armed and trained under Operation Cyclone by CIA costing the US taxpayer billions of dollars. So please don't today occupy the high moral ground and proclaim Pakistan's perfidy when America actively encouraged Pakistan to do the very same thing now that is finds detrimental to it's interests.

2. China has deeply entrenched interests in Pakistan that are strategic in nature. The recent stand off in Doklam would have merely accentuated the importance China's only ally in South Asia. It's well known fact that the Chinese get things done by having a "quite chat" with those in power inside Pakistan. It is also well known fact that Chinese have access to all the top level decision makers inside Pakistani state - military, civil, political. If the Chinese really want to get something done they do it in private as they have access and earsof those who call the shots inside Pakistan.

3. Knowing this co-signing a document in BRICS meating carries no import to Pakistan. What it tells us is Chinese buttering the bread for the BRICS. It's similar to how US official's come to India and act tough on Pakistan but then when they land in Islamabad they sing another song. So Pakistan should understand that what was said was in the context of BRICS.

4. What matters more is what the Chinese say to Pakistan and GHQ behind closed doors. If you guy's are correct then expect all the groups mentioned - including Haqqani network to be turfed out within the next few months. Afghanistan can then declare victory and send Americans packing back to USA. Nothing and I repeat this again nothing of this sort is going to happen. everything will continue as normal. This year. Next year. This will be proof that Chinese were just obliging to diplomatic doublespeak.

5. Now if indeed you are right. Then we can all expect a sharp about turn by the GHQ. You can't tell me that Pakistan will keep on sailing along the direction it has been on despite Chinese telling GHQ "stop it". You know China has absolute leverage on Pakistan as Beijing is the penultimate ally of Pakistan and the "banker of last resort"?

You hardly think Pakistan is going to say to Chinese "piss off". I do not expect the Chinese do do anything other than engage in diplomatic doublespeak. In short behind the scenes it will be "keep it up boys". And if I am wrong you should see abrupt change in few months. Let me know when it happens and I will give you a Sláinte.

* For now let the Indian fanboys get cheaps out of this piece of paper.

 

[Kabira]

I'll advice Pakistan to not go after Haqqanis or what they ask us to do. Deport afghanis, make sure there is no place for them in our country. Once they accept afghanis back and border is fenced and secured then we can talk about Haqqanis. Right now it will be like repeating Musharraf mistakes if so called afghan taliban sanctuaries even exist in Pakistan.

Unlike Afghanistan, terrorism in Pakistan in about 90% down. Some bomb blasts happen here and there every month not nothing like what it used to be some years ago.

 

[Chhatrapati]

blah blah, you didnt provide linking of any BRICS nation other then bharat who connect LeT to Pakistani govt and its institution, all you are doing is blabbering, why would he appease Pakistan. so when someone say something against you it become appeasing, you are saints..

I asked you for official statement and you put out a Mr.Nobody guy in US. So, who is blabbering? I asked you an official US government spokesperson who blame India. Again you can't get that. So, your BS walks.

so it justify Pakistan to support Taliban bcoz we have millions of Pashtun refugees from Afghanistan..NO.. come up with acceptable defence of your state sponsored terrorism.. as if its not clear to the world that you were conspiring with Awami league leadership much before refugee reach your country... what are LET and LEJ, maybe they killed few hundred Indian soldiers and very few civilians. your sponsored terrorists whom you openly supported each killed lacs of people, whether it was Northern alliance in Afghanistan, Tamil Tigers or Mukti Bahini..

Regular rhetoric. We only supported Afghan government, we have no other connection. Even the US government rightly said, India don't fund any organization in Pakistan. How can you say LeT and LeJ do not get government support when they openly call for Jihad against India. Held public rallies. Whether you fund them or not, there are enough proof that you openly support them. We only support LTTE for a very short period. We retracted that and turned against them. As for Mukti Bahini, well Bangladesh don't think so so I think it's more justifiable.

Brazil can be anything for south America not for us, we both are irrelevant to each other, other then China and Russia.. none even deserve a mention.

Apart from China, why do you think Russia is your BFF?

rants, not answered my question, since you defended your terror sponsoring nation by saying none accused you of supporting TTP, now you should answer how many of them (BRICS) connected LeT to Pakistan.

Where did we defend TTP? I guess comprehension is not your forte. TTP is still named in the declaration. You should read the history of TTP, who created them. They pledge allegance to Afghan Taliban. We don't support Taliban. You are the one playing with all these organization.

Pak should not worry because.
India---- is an emerging economy since 1947.
Russia----We tested its power in afghanistan
China ----You guys just checked its power in Docklam
South Africa---BTW what is the GDP.Less than PAK
Afghanistan----0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0=0

Pakistan ------- Super duper hyper powa Since 9 gazillion BC

For you world revolves around Pakistan. I rest my case.

 

[IceCold]

CSF was asked by pakistan to clear its territory of the terrorist. A total of $8 billion was required and half was to paid by US and rest had to be raised from other countries. What happened in the end we all know it.

As for the rest of the bs you mentioned ---Only if donkeys could fly, but perhaps they do.

If Indians can, donkeys can too because apparently you dont have a damn clue what you are talking about. Pakistan never asked for CSF to clear its territory, this is so absurd. The whole reason this mess began was because of the US invasion of Afghanistan and the influx of people from Afghanistan into Pakistan. Tell me something why is Afghanistan so hesitant to let Pakistan barred the durand line?

I think I am pretty objective in my arguments, accepting that the Afghan state is weak but is making progress.
Your post is typical of current Pakistani FO ,like ostrich with head buried under the sand.

No offense meant btw

You call this progress?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-spoils-of-war-afghanistan-s-multibillion-dollar-heroin-trade/91
http://www.businessinsider.com/taliban-map-afghanistan-2017-3

No part of Pakistan is under any one's control but the state. Can you say the same about Afghanistan? Yet Pakistan is to be blamed for everything? My point try to gain control over your own territory before you point fingers on others.

 

[ito]

Pakistan isolated...it is no use using terror networks as proxies.