Breaking News - China Passes U.S. As World's Biggest Oil Importer

[tranquilium]

Shade gas. Priceless.



Could you back this up with something? I'm genuinly interested.

One group is with the ITER, which runs tokamak setup. ITER is an international effort with China being responsible of creating parts of the TF and PF coils used in the core.

Another group is EAST, which runs a super conducting tokamak setup. The reason that EAST comes into existence is a bit complicated. Part of the reason is political. The ITER is an international project and thus subjected to international delays and friction, this is why Canada quit. Both US and China started parallel research group so they are not bogged down. The main difference between EAST and ITER is the advanced super conducting technology used in the process.

A third group is the ShengGuang group, which is different from EAST and ITER because it focused on Inertial Confined Fusion ICF, or laser based fusion. The group started off a lot earlier (around 1960) than both EAST and ITER, but its earlier effort was focused on lasers.

There are also other minor groups. For example, Tsinghua University has a ball shaped Tokamak setup.

For Chinese readers, a good summary can be seen here:

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[KingMamba]

Hasn't America itself increased the domestic production of oil and gas and reducing the imports.

Yes we have but the Chinese have more reserves of oil and gas than us anyway and so their imports should still not be surpassing ours.

 

[tranquilium]

Yes we have but the Chinese have more reserves of oil and gas than us anyway and so their imports should still not be surpassing ours.

Chinese total petroleum consumption is still nowhere near the amount in US, mostly due to the large amount of automobiles in US. It's just that US has always produced more petroleum than China, especially now. In addition, China also has a huge trade surplus that needs balancing and importing petroleum is one of the best ways to do it.

 

[KAL-EL]

We seriously need to find a way to shift towards renewable energy on a large scale.

Or find a way to make electricity-powered cars more efficient and viable.

I agree, the US should be trying to do the same thing.

 

[Audio]

One group is with the ITER, which runs tokamak setup. ITER is an international effort with China being responsible of creating parts of the TF and PF coils used in the core.

Another group is EAST, which runs a super conducting tokamak setup. The reason that EAST comes into existence is a bit complicated. Part of the reason is political. The ITER is an international project and thus subjected to international delays and friction, this is why Canada quit. Both US and China started parallel research group so they are not bogged down. The main difference between EAST and ITER is the advanced super conducting technology used in the process.

A third group is the ShengGuang group, which is different from EAST and ITER because it focused on Inertial Confined Fusion ICF, or laser based fusion. The group started off a lot earlier (around 1960) than both EAST and ITER, but its earlier effort was focused on lasers.

There are also other minor groups. For example, Tsinghua University has a ball shaped Tokamak setup.

For Chinese readers, a good summary can be seen here:

¡¾¿Æ¼¼¡¿¿ÆÆÕһϺ˾۱䣬²¢Ì½ÌÖÆäÇ°¾°_ÄÇÄêÄÇÍÃÄÇЩʶù°É_°Ù¶ÈÌù°É

I thought it's gonna be laser based.
The US version of ICF at the NIF consumes i think one and a half times the electricity whole US consumes at any given time when fired (read: tested), so i'd be of the opinion ITER is much more efficient since for a start it will only need 50 MW to produce 500MW. That's all according to predictions ofcourse.

EAST according to my knowledge is just a testbed for ITER (testing technologies and processes), they have something like that in Japan, at Oxford, at Siemens in Germany also.

 

[UKBengali]

This news is incorrect.

The US currently produces around 10 million barrels per day but needs 18 million barrels. So 18-10 is 8 million barrels a day.

China imports only 6 million barrels a day!

 

[nalan]

EAST according to my knowledge is just a testbed for ITER (testing technologies and processes),they have something like that in Japan, at Oxford, at Siemens in Germany also.

all are for testing technologies

 

[KingMamba]

Chinese total petroleum consumption is still nowhere near the amount in US, mostly due to the large amount of automobiles in US. It's just that US has always produced more petroleum than China, especially now. In addition, China also has a huge trade surplus that needs balancing and importing petroleum is one of the best ways to do it.

You guys got more reserves though or is it that much is still untapped?

 

[tranquilium]

You guys got more reserves though or is it that much is still untapped?

Currently, US has more strategic reserve than China. Basically this is the amount that is immediately available, but put into storage for the purpose of emergency. China has higher amount in the ground.

I thought it's gonna be laser based.
The US version of ICF at the NIF consumes i think one and a half times the electricity whole US consumes at any given time when fired (read: tested), so i'd be of the opinion ITER is much more efficient since for a start it will only need 50 MW to produce 500MW. That's all according to predictions ofcourse.

EAST according to my knowledge is just a testbed for ITER (testing technologies and processes), they have something like that in Japan, at Oxford, at Siemens in Germany also.

Currently, the magnetic containment option has more process than laser-----if you only consider step towards fusion as process. Many of the technological and scientific breakthroughs developed by these project can be utilized in other applications. I am not sure about US, but much of China's development in laser applications can be traced to ShengGuang projects. So it is not a waste at all. However, if we are only talking about fusion, than Tokamak core looks the way to go---for now anyway.

EAST and ITER shares quite a bit technology since the two groups since they both use Tokamak setup. However, they have different origins and they are ran by different people. ITER is a collaborative project between EU, India, Japan, China, Russia, South Korea and the United States.

Basically, back in the 90s, the Chinese economy is just getting off the ground and technological development is speeding up. The Chinese leaders recognized the importance of ITER, but at the end of the day, simply can't bet the energy future of the country on a loose association of nations. (The US shared the same sentiment, hence they established separate program as well. I am pretty sure the only thing that stopped the rest of the countries to do the same is because they lack the funding to support such programs by themselves) As a result, EAST is established in the 90s as separate, but loose related, project to ITER. (I need to thank the USSR scientists here, because a lot of them came over to China after the collapse of USSR and many of them helped to lay the foundation of EAST)

 

[Audio]

I am pretty sure the only thing that stopped the rest of the countries to do the same is because they lack the funding to support such programs by themselves)

Tokamak Currently in operation

Anyhow, everyone in that list is either small, can't keep up the fusion long enough or both.... ITER is in a whole different league. And yes, EAST is doing tests for ITER, just like some of the other still operating reactors do:

China is a member of the ITER consortium, and EAST will be a testbed for technologies proposed for the ITER project.
EAST will test:
Superconducting NbTi poloidal field magnets, making it the first tokamak with superconducting toroidal and poloidal magnets
Non-inductive current drive
Pulses of up to 1000 seconds with 0.5 MA plasma current
Schemes for controlling plasma instabilities through real-time diagnostics
Materials for divertors and plasma facing components
Operation with βN = 2 and confinement factor H89 > 2

EAST Physics objectives

 

[tranquilium]

Tokamak Currently in operation

Anyhow, everyone in that list is either small, can't keep up the fusion long enough or both.... ITER is in a whole different league. And yes, EAST is doing tests for ITER, just like some of the other still operating reactors do:

EAST Physics objectives

While it is true that EAST is doing some tests for ITER, the two projects are fundamentally ran by different groups.

The problem with ITER is that it is a European governed project. Basically, the ITER share was planned in the 90s. Back then, the European nations have yet to experience the devastating ecomic crisis of the new Millennium, the result is that EU is signficantly stronger than pretty every other government on earth at the time. (USSR has already collapsed by then, China's economy has yet to fully take off and US by itself isn't strong, at least in economy, as EU) The result is that EU has significantly higher share of ITER (45%) than everyone else (9% each nation).

Since the number of personnel for each organization depends on the share, ITER becomes a predominantly European project. US and Japan tried to fight EU and get ITER to be stationed in Japan, but it did not work, which led to US quitting the project for a short while and Canada simply left. Like I mentioned in my earlier posts, US and China are not really going to trust something so important to anyone but themselves. As a result, separate programs such as EAST are established.

Aside from technological difference (For example, EAST is the first apparatus in the world that complete superconducting setup. The shape of the Tokamak core is also different), EAST is different ITER mainly in the fact that EAST is under complete control of China. So while EAST do run tests for ITER, it doesn't answer to ITER.

 

[walle]

this was projected when the US started to excavate their own oil. Hardly breaking news.

 

[Audio]

While it is true that EAST is doing some tests for ITER, the two projects are fundamentally ran by different groups.

The problem with ITER is that it is a European governed project. Basically, the ITER share was planned in the 90s. Back then, the European nations have yet to experience the devastating ecomic crisis of the new Millennium, the result is that EU is signficantly stronger than pretty every other government on earth at the time. (USSR has already collapsed by then, China's economy has yet to fully take off and US by itself isn't strong, at least in economy, as EU) The result is that EU has significantly higher share of ITER (45%) than everyone else (9% each nation).

Since the number of personnel for each organization depends on the share, ITER becomes a predominantly European project. US and Japan tried to fight EU and get ITER to be stationed in Japan, but it did not work, which led to US quitting the project for a short while and Canada simply left. Like I mentioned in my earlier posts, US and China are not really going to trust something so important to anyone but themselves. As a result, separate programs such as EAST are established.

Aside from technological difference (For example, EAST is the first apparatus in the world that complete superconducting setup. The shape of the Tokamak core is also different), EAST is different ITER mainly in the fact that EAST is under complete control of China. So while EAST do run tests for ITER, it doesn't answer to ITER.

I didn't dispute that EAST is under total control of China or that it is ran by a different group then ITER. If you think i'm imposing some sort of hierarchy you are wrong.
However, EAST is an university thing, similar to many others throughout the world, while ITER is a proper reactor. With operating temperatures and energy yields far exceeding any university installation.

The dispute you mention i think was settled with an agreement that the second reactor (4x power of ITER) will be built in Japan.

 

[Sugarcane]

Not a good news - More uncle sam becomes independent in energy more he will be free to play nasty games

 

[tranquilium]

I didn't dispute that EAST is under total control of China or that it is ran by a different group then ITER. If you think i'm imposing some sort of hierarchy you are wrong.
However, EAST is an university thing, similar to many others throughout the world, while ITER is a proper reactor. With operating temperatures and energy yields far exceeding any university installation.

The dispute you mention i think was settled with an agreement that the second reactor (4x power of ITER) will be built in Japan.

Erm, EAST is ran by Chinese Academy of Sciences (中科&#38498, which despite the word "academy", is not a school at all. It is equivalent to National Science Foundation from US. So no, it is not a university thing. It is a project ran by the highest research institute in China and the funding comes directly from national budget.
EAST is a full reactor and it started initial operation in 2006. Its design objective is the same as ITER (500MW ouptut for 50MW input, 1000 second duration) Though due to delay in ITER, EAST is expected to be fully operational about 10 to 15 years earlier than ITER.