Both the TLP and govt were involved in violence, we have to forget about these 8-10 killings and move: Akeel Karim Dgedhi

[Pandora]

TLP goons are saying Punjab police deserves it for corruption, oppression- payback from God
are justifying it everywhere just like laal masjid types used to do back in the day

That is exactly my point. These TLP terrorists should have been dealt with iron hands. Now they know Pakistan state is walk over so they will be out on street after 1 or 2 months again. Extremists parties like TLP cant live without momentum and they will be out on streets again killing people and destroying property to carry on with their momentum otherwise they die out. You can save my comment in 2 month TLP will come out again.

 

[AZMwi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1455894000209125381

 

[Maula Jatt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1455894000209125381

@PakAlp these type of people are hijacking TLP too
They wont learn politics, they'll just rent out politicians lol

 

[AZMwi]

@PakAlp these type of people are hijacking TLP too
They wont learn politics, they'll just rent out politicians lol

Kuttay ki dum terhi ki terhi
Listen to this govt minister

https://twitter.com/x/status/1455853458058321926

@PakAlp these type of people are hijacking TLP too
They wont learn politics, they'll just rent out politicians lol

Truth is being revealed now. Some ministers of PTI wanted fasaad and bloodshed in the country.

 

[Jango]

Why not try what was done before - distribute envelopes of cash? Seriously though, in my view, these are merely paid goons that are agitated and calmed down by those who really control them. The answers lie there.

Previous times, maybe...and that's a big maybe.

This time, I am not sure, could be, could be not.

Sometimes, it's not an easy choice either way, but you have to see which one is the less destructive one. Not letting them assemble might have had a backlash, but not on this scale. I remember when in early 2019, all TLP people including RIzvi were arrested and there were no road blocks because all of their leadership was gone behind bars. They weren't able to do anything until French blasphemy issue happened.

My problem is with half hearted actions. When in April, they decided to ban TLP, they should have gone for its dissolution, so the finances could have been cut. But that didn't happen and now we see they might even be unbanned.

Governments should learn from mistakes, not repeat them.

As I alluded to earlier, our system is such that every civilian government has to give in to certain ground realities and cede space to such elements. Ideal? Surely not. But it is what it is.

 

[Nyayadhikari]

A saw a thread comparing TLP with RSS here. Some even explained how TLP is a much mild form of RSS.

However, RSS , or any organization for that matter, can't even think of slaughtering policemen like that. I feel sorry for the families of the policemen killed in this clash. Bad for morale of the forces.

 

[Jango]

You are talking about things which are too obvious to even mention. The fact that social injustice, lack of economic opportunities, etc., breed frustrations that easily can be radicalized is known to everyone.

It is not intellectual dishonesty --- thanks for the baseless accusation; had you known my posts better, you'd see that I criticize N League as a direct threat to national security and have defended the Army when and where required --- but I refuse to be a blind fanboy.

It is not intellectual dishonesty because the Army likes to monopolize and dominate ALL security-related responsibilities; is growing radicalism and extremism not an urgent area of concern since the past two decades AT LEAST, with emergency status as perhaps THE biggest challenge to society and state in the past decade? WTF have they been doing?

Successive governments are to blame --- PPP and PML-N are terrible and unbelievably corrupt. It is literally hard for the average person to fathom who insanely nepotistic and evil these parties are. They obviously share the blame. But since PTI is in power now --- and one expected more creative, transformative governance from PTI (at least I did) --- they are to blame in the current situation.

You are still considering it a zero sum game. Either all out bloodshed or nothing. This is unfair to those of us criticizing the govt bending over backwards.

The government could have established its writ through a sophisticated operation consisting of police and agency support --- ringleaders disappearing or getting 'tuning' and so on. Publicly, it must be shown that the GOVERNMENT is the authority --- if it is not, then why should I be punished for running a red light, killing someone or destroying somebody's hard-earned vehicle?

It can't work both ways. So, you have every right to disagree, but a lot of us here feel that the government and army both go to the opposite extreme of appeasement. And the trend is in front of us: this strategy only emboldens the troublemakers.

I'd like to see how things would have been different had they killed somebody in our two timid ruler's personal circle instead of 'random' policemen. And that son of ***** maulvi has the gall to comment to the whole nation that there was 'violence' by both sides so it should all be forgotten?! One is a quasi-terrorist group and the others are law enforcers! What a country, what a circus, and what a forum where bending over backwards is defended as the only option/strategy. No offense, but no wonder we are in the shitter.

@Norwegian @Areesh @CriticalThought @SQ8

First up, if you took the intellectual dishonesty comment personally, it wasn't intended for you, but rather a broad section of our media. You are actually one of the posters I follow on this forum, even though I have decreased my time on here drastically.

It is not intellectual dishonesty because the Army likes to monopolize and dominate ALL security-related responsibilities; is growing radicalism and extremism not an urgent area of concern since the past two decades AT LEAST, with emergency status as perhaps THE biggest challenge to society and state in the past decade? WTF have they been doing?

That is exactly what I have been saying for long too my friend. But the fact is, that every single government in Pakistan has some compulsions due to which they fail to provide the required civilian support to this action. The military is guilty of not putting their complete weight behind such a move on some occassions as well, but we cannot deny the fact that the voter base of a party does greatly factor in to the equation. All these voters who voted for the TLP in the previous election, a vast majority of them were former PML voters. They changed their allegiances. Similarly, there are some constituencies in which these voters came out of the PTI vote bank. We cannot deny that in local politics, parties do try and woo the religious vote, to different extents.

The government could have established its writ through a sophisticated operation consisting of police and agency support --- ringleaders disappearing or getting 'tuning' and so on. Publicly, it must be shown that the GOVERNMENT is the authority --- if it is not, then why should I be punished for running a red light, killing someone or destroying somebody's hard-earned vehicle?

Again, this is EXACTLY what I am saying. The local leadership of the TLP and their financiers should have been rounded up BEFORE they got out of their homes and onto the streets, like last time. If you recall that was a very successful tactic which paid dividends later on. This time around, why wasn't the same tactic used (it was, but not to that extent)? I'll guess we'll have to wait and find out the answer.

But then, once you do round them up and stop them from coming out, people like Mazhar Abbas would come out and say why aren't they, with 2 MPA's and as the third largest party in Punjab, not being allowed to protest? Getting my point? You're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and there is no easy way out. There might have been all those years back, but not now.

Every single government tries to kick the can down the road and leave it as a mess for the next one to handle, and end main nuqsan ham sab ka hi hota hai.

All I'm saying is, ONCE they got out onto the streets, you just needed a little match stick and all hell breaks loose. Make the wise choice now, and then pile up the pressure later on and force them to give up these ways. They can fight the elections all they want and do whatever they want in a normal way. That is the only solution going forward which I see, in the current political and social situation of Pakistan.

The long term solution is again, too complex to be achieved by any one government in a short amount of time.

 

[Tomcats]

I know for a fact Imran Khan was all for a hard stance on TLP and to not budge, that is why Sheikh Rashid and Fawad Chaudhary were so upbeat. But in the end, you have to wake up to the reality of the country and grasp the on ground situation.

What goes around comes around and it seems PTI and TLP have come full circle since Faizabad.

I think we need to realize the fact that this isn't an issue which is restricted to one government, or to the military only. It goes deeper into the roots of our society, and has been festering for years.

Piling it all onto the PTI or to some other party/institution does nothing bu display intellectual dishonesty.

It is absolutely right for PTI to take some blame for this, It isn't just this year by the way, this is an accumulation of events and mistakes since 2017 which has brought us to this position.
Yes you are completely right in that TLP exists for better or worse due to deeper socio-economic issues, but what i think people are failing to see is that this growing movement metastasized rapidly due to political parties using them for their own benefit as seen in 2017 and on. If this is not going to be acknowledged then you will see the same mistakes perhaps even catapulting TLP to a major political force in the leagues of PPP and PMLN if not more.

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1456149463345553408

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

 

[baqai]

why was this agreement hidden? mismanagement is an understatement for this pack of idiots *facepalm*

 

[VCheng]

No, goal of the system is to create controlled anarchy instead of uncontrolled one as we witnessed during Dhaka fall and East Pakistan separation. By acting proactively, establishment ensures that any anarchy created doesn't go out of its control as it did back in 1971.

Let us not sugarcoat the reality: the perversion here is that the military operates supra-constitutionally and works diligently to destroy all other institutions in order to perpetuate its hold on power. Power is the primary goal, anarchy may or may not be a byproduct and not important. Having said that, it is also important to observe that trying to change this secure system is simply not possible.

To some extent, but both her and NS were played off against one another whenever either got a bit too big for their boots. And her father's from the same nursery, and himself was not exactly democratic or pluralistic.


They meant well bringing in IK, were there ulterior motives too? Probably, but I'm sure those involved brought into the naya Pakistan narrative. In the end, they don't want to see Pakistan suffer or destruct itself, their methods and lack of awareness is maddening though. Every person holding any office, military officer, judge, civilian, all should remember their oath and allegiance. Trump was a clown, but every one of his opponents respected the authority of his office because they follow their constitution.

If it wasn't for this infernal cycle, we might be decades more mature politically.

They did not "mean well" with what they did recently. They removed a disliked setup for a more palatable one, as always, in flagrant violation of the Constitution. Rinse. Repeat as necessary. There is "no lack of awareness" here. They know exactly what they are doing, no matter how contorted and nobly cloaked the explanations. Having said that, it is a secure and durable system, that should be accepted for what it is.

Previous times, maybe...and that's a big maybe.

This time, I am not sure, could be, could be not.

As I alluded to earlier, our system is such that every civilian government has to give in to certain ground realities and cede space to such elements. Ideal? Surely not. But it is what it is.

All this talk of this time being somehow different than all the previous times is simply incorrect. This time is the same as all the previous times. Let us call these "certain ground realities" for what they are: the extra-Constitutional hold on power by the military, no matter what the facade at the moment. Having said that, we can trust the military to do everything to keep Pakistan going, if only for their own sakes.

 

[Norwegian]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1456149463345553408

If it was the other way around with TLP workers killed or injured, media and opposition would be taking their side

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Orca]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1455625331159834625

tell his daughter to move on, tell their parent to forget about the tortured body of their son

No one should take a police job ever again if we are such a thankless nation
police corrupt, police bad, police this

but no one gives a crap when they lose their lives

blood boiling, thats how state create monsters, not long before we have seen the Sahiwal Incident and now this. Literally praying for the destruction of those who killed innocent people for just doing their duty and earning bread and butter for their loved ones.

This is not Hib-e-Rasool its terrorism and we need do to deal with iron hands but unfortunately our PM now a patient of Mardana Kamzoori (firm will and determination). In riiyasat-e-madina their is a law of Diyat and Qasas.

Its states responsibility to take Qisas not to make deal just to save Kursi under their G*nds