Blast in Westridge, Rawalpindi

[Bhaarat]

Paksitan ka Gin,

as far as I know, no islamic religious figure has condemned the blast of masjid. Then its clear that TTP are not considered unislamic. You are pro-PA, so you are naturally angry with this thought. But thats, the truth. TTP is considered quite islamic by scholars/religious figures in Pakistan as well. Infact, the doubts are raised about PA's(as an institution not soldiers) islamic credentials.

 

[Bhaarat]

All these questions are very conveniently ignored.

TTP mainly concentrates on Pakistan. TTP is unhappy with PA because PA has betrayed TTP by siding with US for the dollars and are ready to kill their islamic brethen. So, TTP have branded them as munafiqs and going after them. As you know, once someone is a munafiq, there is no worth to their praying centres either. TTP are rigorously religious, particularly their foot soldiers and mid-level commanders. This is known to anyone who has passing knowledge about TTP particularly in intelligence offices of ISI, CIA, RAW, and MOSSAD.

 

[Barrett]

Buddy, I wanted some religious figure's assessment. I know you are a military proffessional, so obviously, you hate them. But I wanted some neutral religious figure's assessment about the jihad waged by TTP. Did any religious figure condemn the attack on masjid?

Mufti Azam of Pakistan Maulana Taqi Usmai

 

[Barrett]

TTP mainly concentrates on Pakistan. TTP is unhappy with PA because PA has betrayed TTP by siding with US for the dollars and are ready to kill their islamic brethen. So, TTP have branded them as munafiqs and going after them. As you know, once someone is a munafiq, there is no worth to their praying centres either. TTP are rigorously religious, particularly their foot soldiers and mid-level commanders. This is known to anyone who has passing knowledge about TTP particularly in intelligence offices of ISI, CIA, RAW, and MOSSAD.

You kill someone for supporting the enemy but not the enemy ?
Btw what has Mossad got to do with TTP ?

 

[Bhaarat]

You kill someone for supporting the enemy but not the enemy ?
Btw what has Mossad got to do with TTP ?

hmm...I was saying that all intelligence agencies know what TTP is: It is dissatisfied religious(Islamic) extremist group which has previously worked with PA and has links/friends in PA. Now, TTP has turned against PA for betraying TTP for US' dollars.

TTP would not mind going back to PA's camp if PA were to ditch the US. But as you know that not possible. So TTP will hurt PA. PA will be armtwisted to fight them by US. In short, two potential friends kill each other without any blood on third party's hand. Thats the beauty of the situation.

 

[Bhaarat]

Mufti Azam of Pakistan Maulana Taqi Usmai

Could you give me a link to article or video?

 

[Barrett]

hmm...I was saying that all intelligence agencies know what TTP is: It is dissatisfied religious(Islamic) extremist group which has previously worked with PA and has links/friends in PA. Now, TTP has turned against PA for betraying TTP for US' dollars.

TTP would not mind going back to PA's camp if PA were to ditch the US. But as you know that not possible. So TTP will hurt PA. PA will be armtwisted to fight them by US. In short, two potential friends kill each other without any blood on third party's hand. Thats the beauty of the situation.

PA has never supported the TTP, they supported the Afghan Talibans who have categorically denied any involvement with the TTP.

Taliban deny links with Pakistan militants

http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/hekmatyar-offers-us-forces-safe-exit/

 

[Bhaarat]

PA has never supported the TTP, they supported the Afghan Talibans who have categorically denied any involvement with the TTP.

Taliban deny links with Pakistan militants

Hekmatyar Offers US Forces Safe Exit Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

During Soviet war, all these groups(with or without names) were trained by PA at the behest of CIA. All these groups have links with each other and PA(some officers in PA and ISI). Also these groups recruit mostly from the same area(either side of durand line) from the closely knit tribal groups. There is bound to be relations.

Once the soviet war was over, many of these groups engaged in different roles. But after 9/11, the situation changed and RAW stepped in.

BTW, a simple point to you: The masjid that was hit by TTP was a shia masjid. TTP therefore targetted only shias and not sunnis. Also, the masjid is well protected and needs a permission to enter its premises. The jihadi not only was able to enter the masjid but also position himself close to the higher ranked PA guys so that he could cause maximum damage. He could not get so far, if he did not have insider help from within PA/ISI. The guy blew himself up, then the other guys were stationed near the entrance of masjid and killed those who were running for dear life after the blast. Our calculation is that some of the guys in PA/ISI are helping TTP in eradicating shias in PA. There is a churning within PA. Many people are unhappy with the war on TTP, many are questioning why PA is acting as stooge of US.

I will give you a hint: US is paying PA, right?! There are allegations that RAW is funding TTP, right?! Now, combine the two. US and India are giving rise to a civil war in Pakistan, through a clever manipulation of sectarian differences.

PS: I am saying 'allegations'. I am not confirming RAW's funding of TTP.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

TTP mainly concentrates on Pakistan. TTP is unhappy with PA because PA has betrayed TTP by siding with US for the dollars and are ready to kill their islamic brethen. So, TTP have branded them as munafiqs and going after them. As you know, once someone is a munafiq, there is no worth to their praying centres either. TTP are rigorously religious, particularly their foot soldiers and mid-level commanders. This is known to anyone who has passing knowledge about TTP particularly in intelligence offices of ISI, CIA, RAW, and MOSSAD.

shallow and overly rhetorical analysis, from the ground - up

 

[Bhaarat]

shallow and overly rhetorical analysis, from the ground - up

Correct me, sir. Lets see where I was wrong?

Disclaimer:
BTW, thats a theory, I am not suggesting that the India is in reality doing a stoking of civil war. Of course, India is completely innocent in all this. As our PM claimed India does not interfere with Balochistan.

 

[Hulk]

I find value in this argument to some extent army is made up of people and hence represent to some extent thoughts of countrymen. If there are good amount of people in society that feel Pakistan should not have supported US in Afghanistan and should have attacked TTP. It can be a possibility that same thought is carried by some people within army. Could be that they are not happy with PA's line and helping TTP.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Correct me, sir. Lets see where I was wrong?

Disclaimer:
BTW, thats a theory, I am not suggesting that the India is in reality doing a stoking of civil war. Of course, India is completely innocent in all this. As our PM claimed India does not interfere with Balochistan.

i could damn care less what ur PM says.

Your govt. is at the point where they are just contradicting eachother's statements.


Pakistan never supported TTP b/c such a thing never existed. Even Mullah Omar in Afghanistan is condemning their actions. There are Afghan as well as American officials acknowleding that india is up to no good in Afghanistan.

But my policy is simple. We should gather the evidence and present it. We already are keeping a tab of activities at the so-called "consullates."

Operations will continue, last man last bullet.

 

[Bhaarat]

i could damn care less what ur PM says.

Yes, and the our PM shares the same opinion about Pakistanis.


Your govt. is at the point where they are just contradicting eachother's statements.

Statements are statements. Its the action that matters.

Pakistan never supported TTP b/c such a thing never existed. Even Mullah Omar in Afghanistan is condemning their actions.

Well said. As I said previously these people were trained by PA during soviet war. TTP did not exist then. They were called mujahideens. Once the war was over, PA used different groups for different purposes. TTP was formed much later. But the people are same. They have links with PA/ISI. They have sympathisers as well.

There are Afghan as well as American officials acknowleding that india is up to no good in Afghanistan.

Again, mere statements. The same US wants us to share their bodybags in Afghanistan. But we are happy to build roads, create positive image of ourselves and wait for appropriate time in future.

But my policy is simple. We should gather the evidence and present it. We already are keeping a tab of activities at the so-called "consullates"

And you will present the evidence to?

US? As if US wouldnt know what we do in Afghanistan....

 

[Barrett]

During Soviet war, all these groups(with or without names) were trained by PA at the behest of CIA. All these groups have links with each other and PA(some officers in PA and ISI). Also these groups recruit mostly from the same area(either side of durand line) from the closely knit tribal groups. There is bound to be relations.

Once the soviet war was over, many of these groups engaged in different roles. But after 9/11, the situation changed and RAW stepped in.

BTW, a simple point to you: The masjid that was hit by TTP was a shia masjid. TTP therefore targetted only shias and not sunnis. Also, the masjid is well protected and needs a permission to enter its premises. The jihadi not only was able to enter the masjid but also position himself close to the higher ranked PA guys so that he could cause maximum damage. He could not get so far, if he did not have insider help from within PA/ISI. The guy blew himself up, then the other guys were stationed near the entrance of masjid and killed those who were running for dear life after the blast. Our calculation is that some of the guys in PA/ISI are helping TTP in eradicating shias in PA. There is a churning within PA. Many people are unhappy with the war on TTP, many are questioning why PA is acting as stooge of US.

I will give you a hint: US is paying PA, right?! There are allegations that RAW is funding TTP, right?! Now, combine the two. US and India are giving rise to a civil war in Pakistan, through a clever manipulation of sectarian differences.

PS: I am saying 'allegations'. I am not confirming RAW's funding of TTP.

I was under the impression that I was having a debate with a mature person who has some knowledge over the current situation.

Don't tell me what mosque that was and the officers killed in that attack. I have lived in Westridge and Maj.General Bilal omer being my fathers junior in Armoured Corps had family ties with them.

Spare us with your conspiracy theories of sectarian differences, you Indians will paint it with any color you want.

 

[Bhaarat]

I find value in this argument to some extent army is made up of people and hence represent to some extent thoughts of countrymen. If there are good amount of people in society that feel Pakistan should not have supported US in Afghanistan and should have attacked TTP. It can be a possibility that same thought is carried by some people within army. Could be that they are not happy with PA's line and helping TTP.

Pakistan is a complex place today with the dynamics changing quickly. PA and many soviet era groups have worked closely. The officers that have worked share not only an emotional bond but also an ideological bond. They sympathise with TTP's goals.

PA would have used TTP-like groups as an asset in Afghanistan and Kashmir. But 9/11 changed it all. US came into the picture and PA had to go after their ideological brethen. At that time, it would have been game up, but for the Iraq war.

Now, we are again at the same situation. TTP is most pissed off at PA for sacrificing them at the altar of dollars. Many erstwhile officers(who worked with these people then sympathise with them), and those who dont(inspite of working with them) are targetted. The aam soldier is confused and demoralised. He had been trained to fight the kafir India not islamic talibs. This is the problem facing COAS. Thats the reason for his measured actions and speeches. But, the end game is near. Expect greater fireworks in pindi itself. Expect drones in quetta and later in Karachi. I can say proudly that in few years time you will see that India would have been freed from the albatross around its neck which was hanging from the time of our inception.