Battle Of Tanks: As Pakistan Inducts Chinese VT-4 Tanks, India Eyes Upgraded T-90, Next-Gen Battle Tanks

[Maarkhoor]

Battle Of Tanks: As Pakistan Inducts Chinese VT-4 Tanks, India Eyes Upgraded T-90, Next-Gen Battle Tanks

Pakistan has acquired VT-4 battle tanks, which have been manufactured by its closest ally China while India is acquiring T-90 & next-gen tanks

eurasiantimes.com

 

[iLION12345_1]

Battle Of Tanks: As Pakistan Inducts Chinese VT-4 Tanks, India Eyes Upgraded T-90, Next-Gen Battle Tanks

Pakistan has acquired VT-4 battle tanks, which have been manufactured by its closest ally China while India is acquiring T-90 & next-gen tanks

eurasiantimes.com

I almost stopped reading when they called the Arjun capable.

Other errors:
It says india has induced 118 Arjun MK-1A. Which is false, they have 117 of them on order. they have induced a grand total of 1 Arjun MK-1A so far in a ceremony where they made it look like there were more. Before that They have inducted 124 Arjun MK-1 which are obsolete. Not that the MK-1A improves on the basic issues.

The article again states that India has or is getting “modernized T90”, which it is not, The T90S Indian is acquiring are the same ones they’ve been buying since the early 2000s…they are barely comparable to the original Model of the Al-Khalid, if that.

Yes Indian army has put out an RFI for next generation tanks to replace their T72s, according to which they will buy a foreign tank and not a local one, so RIP Arjun program.…the RFI states that the tanks will be inducted by 2030 or after. So they have little to combat modern Pakistani armor in terms of quality till then.

 

[waz]

I almost stopped reading when they called the Arjun capable.

Other errors:
It says india has induced 118 Arjun MK-1A. Which is false, they have 117 of them on order. they have induced a grand total of 1 Arjun MK-1A so far in a ceremony where they made it look like there were more. Before that They have inducted 124 Arjun MK-1 which are obsolete. Not that the MK-1A improves on the basic issues.

The article again states that India has or is getting “modernized T90”, which it is not, The T90S Indian is acquiring are the same ones they’ve been buying since the early 2000s…they are barely comparable to the original Model of the Al-Khalid, if that.

Yes Indian army has put out an RFI for next generation tanks to replace their T72s, according to which they will buy a foreign tank and not a local one, so RIP Arjun program.…the RFI states that the tanks will be inducted by 2030 or after. So they have little to combat modern Pakistani armor in terms of quality till then.

Terrible article full stop.

 

[SQ8]

Regardless of the article’s inaccuracies - Pakistani armor will be degraded in a very dispassionate way long before it makes contact with IA unless concrete steps are made to ensure air cover beyond the restricted LOMAD sphere. Can just imagine VT-4s, AK & AZ’s getting their tops blown off

 

[Tornado23]

Regardless of the article’s inaccuracies - Pakistani armor will be degraded in a very dispassionate way long before it makes contact with IA unless concrete steps are made to ensure air cover beyond the restricted LOMAD sphere. Can just imagine VT-4s, AK & AZ’s getting their tops blown off

As far as I know the sepecat jaguar is the only capable aircraft of delivering the cbu in the iaf unless I'm wrong. Anyone know the max range of the cbu? Also also the pak ad now has the ly80 medium range Sam system which has a 40km range. I really hope they upgrade all ly80 batteries to the ly80b standard with a 70km range.

The iaf jaguars have a seriously underpowered engine. Which means a lack of maneuverability whilst it's holding its payload if a ly80 Sam is fired at it. Otherwise a amraam/sd10a/pl15

 

[SQ8]

As far as I know the sepecat jaguar is the only capable aircraft of delivering the cbu in the iaf unless I'm wrong. Anyone know the max range of the cbu? Also also the pak ad now has the ly80 medium range Sam system which has a 40km range. I really hope they upgrade all ly80 batteries to the ly80b standard with a 70km range.

The iaf jaguars have a seriously underpowered engine. Which means a lack of maneuverability whilst it's holding its payload if a ly80 Sam is fired at it. Otherwise a amraam/sd10a/pl15

They have integrated it on the MKi as well and trying it for the Tejas. The jaguar is best suited to low level penetration and can still deliver these albeit at high risk to itself despite onboard countermeasures. It’s re-engine program is only stalled by their own bureaucracy and poor project management within the IAF.
Range is a function of altitude but its around 12 miles at 20k feet. However, the underlying assumption that the LY-80 protects every mechanized asset equally or that it will be available all along each sector is flawed. There will have to be CAPs to compensate for what will be well prepared strike packages with EW,SEAD and escort fighters. These too will be stressed based on asset availability. A layered LOMADS and a Longer range system that caters to these will be the call of the day. The JSOW also carries the same submunitions as well.

The Russians have programmed Pantsir and updated Tungskas to shoot the submunition canisters before they deploy - perhaps a motivation for the Indians to move heaven and earth to scuttle that deal

 

[TheDarkKnight]

The Russians have programmed Pantsir and updated Tungskas to shoot the submunition canisters before they deploy - perhaps a motivation for the Indians to move heaven and earth to scuttle that deal

I heard that deal with Russia is off, and we will be evaluating Chinese pantsir equivalents? Are they atleast as capable as Russian ones ? @PanzerKiel
Just like other weapons, do we have similar equivalents of CBUs from other countries or any resources and interest to develop in house ?

 

[chinasun]

To buy weapons, you should gradually be able to produce your own weapons, not like Saudi Arabia or India.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

I heard that deal with Russia is off, and we will be evaluating Chinese pantsir equivalents? Are they atleast as capable as Russian ones ? @PanzerKiel
Just like other weapons, do we have similar equivalents of CBUs from other countries or any resources and interest to develop in house ?

@PanzerKiel
Bhaijan aap sirf mohabat bhari negahoon sai hi dekhain gain yaan kuch kahain gai bhi?

 

[Tornado23]

They have integrated it on the MKi as well and trying it for the Tejas. The jaguar is best suited to low level penetration and can still deliver these albeit at high risk to itself despite onboard countermeasures. It’s re-engine program is only stalled by their own bureaucracy and poor project management within the IAF.
Range is a function of altitude but its around 12 miles at 20k feet. However, the underlying assumption that the LY-80 protects every mechanized asset equally or that it will be available all along each sector is flawed. There will have to be CAPs to compensate for what will be well prepared strike packages with EW,SEAD and escort fighters. These too will be stressed based on asset availability. A layered LOMADS and a Longer range system that caters to these will be the call of the day. The JSOW also carries the same submunitions as well.

The Russians have programmed Pantsir and updated Tungskas to shoot the submunition canisters before they deploy - perhaps a motivation for the Indians to move heaven and earth to scuttle that deal

Thanks for informing me on the mkis being integrated with the cbu. Our army ad is equipped with the ly80, fm90 and the manpads. Isn't the fm90 able to intercept such munitions before they deploy like the pantsir?

Although I agree. A further up gradation of army ad would do good. Mobile Radar guided AA such as the pantsir or the Chinese equivalent would help us a lot. I'm sure the army would not go without air cover and I'm also sure the air force and army have already planned/countered this.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Nothing extraordinary here

 

[iLION12345_1]

Thanks for informing me on the mkis being integrated with the cbu. Our army ad is equipped with the ly80, fm90 and the manpads. Isn't the fm90 able to intercept such munitions before they deploy like the pantsir?

Although I agree. A further up gradation of army ad would do good. Mobile Radar guided AA such as the pantsir or the Chinese equivalent would help us a lot. I'm sure the army would not go without air cover and I'm also sure the air force and army have already planned/countered this.

Both the Air Force and army have new AD systems planned, for the army ever since the Pantsir deal was canceled this procurement program seems to be on the back burner, but the need is still there and army is aware of it.
PAF is working on procuring it’s own new AD system as well.

 

[Tornado23]

Both the Air Force and army have new AD systems planned, for the army ever since the Pantsir deal was canceled this procurement program seems to be on the back burner, but the need is still there and army is aware of it.
PAF is working on procuring it’s own new AD system as well.

Wasn't it said that the army is getting the fd2000B?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Wasn't it said that the army is getting the fd2000B?

They definitely tested it, and it is likely that they will go for that system, but it doesn’t seem to be the top priority right now. Pantsir was a different acquisition, but Russia pulled out of that one last moment.

 

[CriticalThought]

They have integrated it on the MKi as well and trying it for the Tejas. The jaguar is best suited to low level penetration and can still deliver these albeit at high risk to itself despite onboard countermeasures. It’s re-engine program is only stalled by their own bureaucracy and poor project management within the IAF.
Range is a function of altitude but its around 12 miles at 20k feet. However, the underlying assumption that the LY-80 protects every mechanized asset equally or that it will be available all along each sector is flawed. There will have to be CAPs to compensate for what will be well prepared strike packages with EW,SEAD and escort fighters. These too will be stressed based on asset availability. A layered LOMADS and a Longer range system that caters to these will be the call of the day. The JSOW also carries the same submunitions as well.

The Russians have programmed Pantsir and updated Tungskas to shoot the submunition canisters before they deploy - perhaps a motivation for the Indians to move heaven and earth to scuttle that deal

Reliance on ground based radars in the age of IR based SOWs is asking for defeat. I asked @PanzerKiel if he wants me to open a thread on effective air defence for armored columns... no response. I hope that's because we have a very well thought out air defence plan already.