Battle for Hill 3234(Soviet-Afghan War)

[W.11]

According to the Soviet estimates, the Mujahideen lost over 100 men. The Mujahideen wore black uniforms with rectangular black-yellow-red stripes.[1][10] It was claimed by several sources that the mujahideen were actually members of the Black Storks, an independent commando division of the Pakistani Army

The Battle for Hill 3234 was a defensive battle and successful military campaign fought by 345th Soviet paratroopers in Afghanistan against a force of 200 to 250 Mujahideen rebels

Two of the soldiers killed, Vyacheslav Alexandrovich Alexandrov and Andrey Alexandrovich Melnikov, were posthumously awarded the golden star of the Hero of the Soviet Union. All of the paratroopers in this battle were given the Order of the Red Banner and Order of the Red Star.[1]

The battle was dramatized in the 2005 movie The 9th Company.

Battle for Hill 3234 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

can somebody shed some light on the presence of SSG in this battle,isnt it shocking tht our commandos got killed by few normal soviet soldiers. thanks

 

[MUHARIB]

They were in a defensive position well entrenched..and it was a direct attack by the mujahideens ..so the result is obvious. SF guys are not super humans.

 

[RazPaK]

They were Pakistani SSG. The Russians were pissed and brought it up at the UN after a couple of bodies had been identified. Also there were several battles were they fought Spetznaz and GRU and came out unscathed.

Here is a movie Russians made about it.

 

[FulcrumD]

I have the DVD ,a nice depiction of actual events,no propaganda here,the final abttle is awesome.

 

[RazPaK]

I had an awesome source of all the engagments between the Soviets and Pakistanis, but for some reason I can't find it on the web anymore. I'll try to see if I can dig it up.

 

[ahmed_naj]

can somebody shed some light on the presence of SSG in this battle,isnt it shocking tht our commandos got killed by few normal soviet soldiers. thanks

i higly doubt the whole unit was filled with SSG Operators as claimed in the quote from wiki. We probably had 'advisers' embedded with the Mujahideen rather than whole squads or units.

 

[W.11]

i higly doubt the whole unit was filled with SSG Operators as claimed in the quote from wiki. We probably had 'advisers' embedded with the Mujahideen rather than whole squads or units.

thts what i think too, or maybe the mujahedeens trained by secret service and gave them proper military uniforms etc

---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 AM ----------

I had an awesome source of all the engagments between the Soviets and Pakistanis, but for some reason I can't find it on the web anymore. I'll try to see if I can dig it up.

tht will be great if you share this info

 

[TaimiKhan]

SSG guys and the army guys who were instructing the Mujahedin at that time used to advocate no frontal attacks knowing that the enemy is superior, they advocated and emphasized ambushes. Many of the battles in which Mujahedin did frontal attacks failed with heavy loses to them, thus i have doubts that Pakistanis were in command of the battle, as they would have avoided frontal attacks, especially when enemy is dug in and holding high ground. Frontal attacks were only useful where success chance or some advantage existed.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Seems a rather odd choice of assault, if indeed it was conducted by the SSG.

IIRC, in the book 'The Bear Trap', Mohammed Yousuf the author, who was in charge of training Mujahideen at some camps, indicated that he tried to dissuade the Mujahideen from conducting these kinds of attacks precisely because of the kinds of results one sees in this case.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

SSG guys and the army guys who were instructing the Mujahedin at that time used to advocate no frontal attacks knowing that the enemy is superior, they advocated and emphasized ambushes. Many of the battles in which Mujahedin did frontal attacks failed with heavy loses to them, thus i have doubts that Pakistanis were in command of the battle, as they would have avoided frontal attacks, especially when enemy is dug in and holding high ground. Frontal attacks were only useful where success chance or some advantage existed.

Ahh - you beat me to it.

That is precisely what I was talking about in my last post!

This particular assault seems to go against the very doctrine the PA was advocating and trying to get the Mujahideen to adopt.

Of course, depending upon the level of autonomy available to SSG/ISI units deployed covertly in the field, it is possible that one officer or a group of officers chose to break with established doctrine and try and 'take out' a relatively 'lightly manned' Soviet post.

I also find the argument of 'patches identifying the units as Black Storks' being somewhat hard to believe, since any kind of identification would compromise the covert nature of participation by Pakistani troops - the patches could however have been the choice of a particular militant faction, and it is still possible that the assault did in fact include SSG troops, under the command of some hot-blooded mujahideen commander or, as mentioned, some 'hot-blooded' SSG officer.

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

Here is a link I found through a cursory google search that purports to detail the various major Soviet battles in Afghanistan - it would be an interesting topic to research and study, in order to find more detailed and multiple accounts of the various major battles:

Full List of Soviet war in Afghanistan Battles | List of All Battles in Soviet war in Afghanistan (11 Items)

 

[W.11]

i want to know if i can have online copy of the best available book on pakistan army involvement in soviet afghan war

thanks

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

isnt it shocking tht our commandos got killed by few normal soviet soldiers. thanks

See this battle in which the Soviet Special Forces pretty much got massacred in an ambush by insurgents led by J Haqqani:

Battle of Maravar Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the reasons US losses have been much lower than the Soviets is the greater use of sophisticated aerial assets for recon, advanced detection of the enemy and CAS.

The fact that the US forces don't face a safe haven such as the one provided by Pakistan against the Soviets, as well as the lack of dedicated lines of weapons, supplies and trainers funded by billions of dollars from the Arabs and a competing Super Power, makes a major difference as well.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

i want to know if i can have online copy of the best available book on pakistan army involvement in soviet afghan war

thanks

As mentioned, the 'Bear Trap' by Mohammed Yousuf is a pretty good read, since he was actually in the field.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Events of the past, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then and Pakistan and Russia have better relation now and are going to strengthen further. Look forward, forget the past.

 

[LeGenD]

One of the reasons US losses have been much lower than the Soviets is the greater use of sophisticated aerial assets for recon, advanced detection of the enemy and CAS.

Yes. US troops have quick and easy access to aerial assets. This has been the game changer.

During the recent clash with Pakistani troops, the aerial assets of the enemy once again turned the tide of this conflict.

The fact that the US forces don't face a safe haven such as the one provided by Pakistan against the Soviets, as well as the lack of dedicated lines of weapons, supplies and trainers funded by billions of dollars from the Arabs and a competing Super Power, makes a major difference as well.

Taliban have enjoyed 'unofficial support' within Pakistan actually. This is the reason that so many individuals escaped into Pakistan during the early years of war in Afghanistan. Also, funding mechanism was more independent this time. We don't know the whole story but without adequate funding, Taliban would not have lasted this long.

Here is interesting news: Many Sources Feed Taliban’s War Chest - NYTimes.com

 

[Xestan]

I doubt about this one but SSGs were surely involved at some fronts. There are many great examples of bravery shown by both the forces, even the aggressors, I still admire Soviets for their bravery, Americans are sitting ducks compared to them

excerpt from Aukai Collins' book 'My Jihad'.