Bangladesh the recent economical miracle

[Nilgiri]

We normally spent our weekends either of the farm houses an hour and change of drive from or home, just to get away from the hustle bustle of life some quality family time and work on my projects. This time I was working on my upcoming Fiction book along the lines of Talbot Mundy, Amish Tripathi and Rudyard Kipling, there are good author from Pakistan in Udru like Ibn e Safi, Aslam Rahi, M A Rahat but not English. Saw your post in the morning but I was so absorbed in writing I became oblivious to passage of time, your post the links wow, just wow it’s like visiting ghettos, or passing through filthy smelly alleys of new York, no wonder some of the mods have revulsions when they talk about that particular section.

Many people from the board have come to know about me, one of the admins knows which contact sports academy I hail from as well, besides there are many discussions behind the scenes on PDF private discussions for Pakistanis only, Nah I don’t think I need certification of my citizenship from foreigners.

I guess the original question was Bangladesh is an economic miracle and we Pakistanis should take a leaf out of their book and I stand by my opinion that the copy/paste job is from WEF propaganda forums I’ll elaborate from hereon; when you want to pick up a model from implementation there has to be something common in both the environment e.g; Roshan –e- Zafar was extremely impressed with Dr. Younus’s community based micro lending model, during here interactions with Dr. Younus she picked his brains and launched the model here, she is a friend and I have no doubt about her talents and IQ but she failed miserably, again based upon my earlier conclusion we have nothing in common except a few years of marriage of inconvenience.

I have unique perspective when it comes of Bengalis one of our Karachi property is being looked after by a Bengali family husband/wife and later children who came illegally to Pakistan in the 70s through Atari area, I learned my Quran and bangla from them.

Whenever I mentioned that Bengalis are good people my Grandfather always used to say these two are very good human beings in answer to my comment. He was a 4th generation Cambridge graduate engineer transferred by GoP during 60s to work on the dam in Bangladesh, one day out of blues he resigned and came back to Pakistan and laid foundation to our family industry. He never answered my repeated queries about Bangladesh and Bengalis one day he told me he will answer my question when I have a first-hand experience of them.

My dad was a freshly minted flying officer in 71, he had Bengalis as colleagues in academy, and taking a cue from his dad he too never answered my questions about them. My family has been recording history for the last three thousand years and every nation, people, tribes they interacted with they have recorded their traits. When I dug into family archives honestly I was shocked to find the conclusions.

During my studies in UK Luton, London, Warwick and Kent I did have my share of adventures and relationships did get a slightly higher interest from their fair ones, which I later concluded to mainly due to intrigues and Asians natural attraction to complexion, height, etiquettes, English and of course money. As for their males my conclusion will come later in this post.

I have travelled across the globe met most ethnicities somehow or the other never found them to get along well with anyone.

About a millennia ago 30 or so royal families in india made a pact, one of the point was to meet some special pandits at Kashi and one of the four respective Varanasi, Vrindavan or other temples twice in life once one turns 18 is introduced to them as the next lineal descendant and once to introduce one’s own son after his 18th birthday, mine is one of the 30 it has got nothing to do with religion, since mine is chandravanshi one so I met vrindavans. I did put my question about them twice mine and my sons 18th birthday.

I have for Bank Alfalah couple years back in Pakistan and often crossed path with the Manager International who dealt with the Bangladesh operations his conclusions are the same.

Two of my friends who had shifted their shirt stitching/export units to Bangladesh about 10 years back I do get to see them regularly during chamber of commerce and industry meetings here in Pakistan and there reasons for shifting units to Bangladesh besides cheapest labor, compliant worker, cheaper bribe rates, a better cohesive export support at Govt level borders on such vulgarity that I can’t ever write it here.

There are other but I am running out of time, so lets conclude

The general conclusion is that they have certain appearance they know it and somehow or the other it is part of their inbred inferiority complex when they compare themselves with rest of the world, the other is cowardice and conspiratorial nature on a one on one basis on face they will never take you on unless odds are in their favor at least 3 to 1, they will entice you , challenge you, dare and in secret will run to daddy in Gramp case it was other Bengali officer, in my dad’s case it was the academy’s instructors and admin, in my case for now the admins. I three times their kind has enticed me to call them as they are and have reported to admins as such (don’t think I don’t know they), every where they work its the same story of complaints and conspiracies, Bank Alfalah Manager was sick to his core and he had requested the management to demote him/fire him but transfer him out of that shitload of complaints. Even here the highest number of complaints and reports are generated by them you can ask any mod.

What I call is Toad psychology, because for a toad the pond is the universe and it is the king of the universe, to them anything that has bangladesh in this forum is their sovereign territory, they because of their inherent conspiratorial nature they will get someone banned from this forum for a few days or permanently is their eternal victory and end of the world to the other one, one has got to be a toad to think like that, its not the end of the world you know.

No morality and self-resect it’s the only people I have seen picking food from dumpster, back in New York it’s a regular joke between Pakistani and Indians that if you want to get rid of your old items dump it in a particular area of Jackson height, couple of days later you will find it on Craig’s list by one of their kind with “slightly used, first owned for sale”

I really am unable to put a final verdict as to the motivation of their continued presence on the forum of a hated enemy, whom they defeated won their independence despite excessive use of force against them. The arguments they present for their exalted presence are answered by a Punjabi saying but that’s too vulgar to be quoted here.

So to surmise Ok they are developing, their exports are improving but we have got nothing to learn from them, it may be a miracle for them not for us.

We have different challenges first is documentation of the economy, thanks to Indians and FATF we are making progress in that direction, we have problems with under/over invoicing if that is fixed our imports will halve and exports will double. All major exporters now have their rep offices in money laundering capital a.k.a UAE exports are made to them on a lower rate, and from those office again on actual price, SBP is reported lower figures. For imports the other money laundering network a.k.a china is used imports are made through intermediary shell companies owned by these crooks in Pakistan higher rates, who in turn purchase from the manufacturer at lower rates.

Money transferred on account of imports from china (I Think) last year was 12 billion dollars while actual export valu from china was 6 billion dollars, same was conveyed to tycoon during their meeting with Army Chief, so we have different challenges and cant replicate them in any way.

Hah yep, look like you know the psyche deep down too. Good read, thanks. Then they get so mad about all this. They should have full right to attack another in whichever way they deem fit, but can't take it back. That in itself tells all you need to know about who is actually oppressed and living in denial.

Then the actual numbers regarding the worms, when these numbers are not controlled by the head worms....just confirms the reality....and you look at how the worms are rated in corruption/credibility and it all makes sense in the end.

Then a few especially uneducated among these worms surface here talking about larger institutions using their head-worm numbers in "analysis"....as though such globalist institutions have some hierarchy/filter with relative due diligence....as though they totally dont assume by operating on good faith for all in the typical globalist way.

i.e Sierra Leone and Switzerland obviously have the same crediblity and thus ought to have the save good faith approach by virtue of them simply existing. Is it any surprise such people blabbing this get triggered when you point out their socioeconomic data when that exists when they are defined specifically as "Bangladeshi" in US,UK etc rather than agglomerated as "South Asian"? Its far more comfy to exist in a opaque haze when you have denial issues I suppose....rather than deal with reality by quality transparent resolution.

Anyway let them be...they wont change. Focus on improving thyself. The silver lining for Pakistan is its more comfortable in its own skin (as much as issues still exist) and thus it doesnt need to waste time and energy on these truly deep set psyche issues that afflict others at entire macro level it seems.

 

[Bilal9]

Use your time and energy wisely mate...

Bangladesh is doing OK. Let them write and scream their theories. We should focus on becoming the most prosperous country in South Asia...

Yup I'd still reckon that the majority of intelligent Pakistanis would like to know what transpired in Bangladesh for the last forty years. Our door and minds remain open if Pakistanis want to take a page from our book...my Pakistani friends in the US fully agree.

As far as NGO's and export-oriented growth, a lot of right decisions (as opposed to wrong) were taken, which may not have been shared with Pakistanis in Pakistan itself. We were lucky enough to not have Pakistan's issues either. But those days are over. I don't think not a lot is holding back Pakistan to set up factories and start adding value.

The only reason I remain so passionate about sharing these stories from Bangladesh is that my background as a 'business activist' in Dhaka's Chambers and also as a 'business matchmaker' have taken me to so many places (including half a dozen trade fairs every year, that I like to eagerly share these Bangladeshi export oriented development stories with Pakistani delegates, and it has seemed that the enthusiasm seemed somewhat tepid. It seemed bizarre at the time (still does). Who doesn't like money and a better standard of living health and education-wise?

Obviously some of these Pakistani Sanghi-buddies in PDF have their own reasons to reject Bangladesh' success story - not least because they probably don't have Pakistan's best interest and only the preservation of their own status quo in mind.

If you can keep 'em (Pakistanis) down at the firm and they haven't seen Paree - how'd they know what they were missing? More equal wages, better standards of living, who needs that?

But just like we have seen in Bangladesh, remittance is only part of the pie. To have a robust economy not dependent on global 'political blocks'; you need to have a strong economic position from which to negotiate.

And how can you reject economic development based on which ethnicity it came from? This is patently hilarious. There is nothing specifically 'Bangladeshi-smelling' about the success of Bangladesh and export growth....

Reject our story because we are Kaley, Natey, Bhookhey, Nangey? We aren't asking for your daughter's hand in marriage, we just want a strong Pakistan, it behooves us to have this in the neighborhood strategy-wise. That's all.

It is all about concentrating on collaborating with East Asian sources and driving economic growth with diligent investments (and not all because of cheap labor in stitching shirts and shorts). In other words bringing in Asian Tiger model of growth. However I leave it to Pakistanis to trace their own trajectory of growth. They know best.

Bigotry and psychotic issues offered by some of these Pakistani folks won't take Pakistan to higher levels of development, these people are essentially holding back Pakistan in the middle ages. Stay in Pakistan bigots - your hilarious bigotry is rejected most everywhere in the open world nowadays...

 

[ps3linux]

Hah yep, look like you know the psyche deep down too. Good read, thanks. Then they get so mad about all this. They should have full right to attack another in whichever way they deem fit, but can't take it back. That in itself tells all you need to know about who is actually oppressed and living in denial.

Then the actual numbers regarding the worms, when these numbers are not controlled by the head worms....just confirms the reality....and you look at how the worms are rated in corruption/credibility and it all makes sense in the end.

Then a few especially uneducated among these worms surface here talking about larger institutions using their head-worm numbers in "analysis"....as though such globalist institutions have some hierarchy/filter with relative due diligence....as though they totally dont assume by operating on good faith for all in the typical globalist way.

i.e Sierra Leone and Switzerland obviously have the same crediblity and thus ought to have the save good faith approach by virtue of them simply existing. Is it any surprise such people blabbing this get triggered when you point out their socioeconomic data when that exists when they are defined specifically as "Bangladeshi" in US,UK etc rather than agglomerated as "South Asian"? Its far more comfy to exist in a opaque haze when you have denial issues I suppose....rather than deal with reality by quality transparent resolution.

Anyway let them be...they wont change. Focus on improving thyself. The silver lining for Pakistan is its more comfortable in its own skin (as much as issues still exist) and thus it doesnt need to waste time and energy on these truly deep set psyche issues that afflict others at entire macro level it seems.

Linked with my previous post my philosphy of life is :
عرفئ تومیندیش زغوغاۓ رقیباں

آواز سگاں کم نہ کند رزق گداراں

It is Persian.

Ok now lets focus on our discussion besides the unpleasantness, biggest challenge for our part of Asia the south and south east asia (Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, laos, Bangladesh, India, nepal, sri lanka, bhutan and Pakistan) is poverty alleviation. Some believe equal distribution of wealth, in an ideal world yes may be, but we live in a different world.

Each country has adopted its own model for poverty alleviation some are progressing while others are regressing.
Among the progressing ones malaysia, bangladesh top the list while cambodia, laos, myanmar are in the southward direction.

Pakistan lies somewhere in the middle. Remember our constitution is very different from the top two it is now more of a confederation rather than a federation. Most of the times it is apathy of provincial Govt (states in your country) to take firm steps in the direction of poverty alleviation.

e.g; I belong to North Punjab due to educational opportunities, lack of wadera ism, excessive agriculture, and business opportunities HDI is much better not only in Punjab but large part of KPK and GB. Staple food, meat, dairy, clothing and vegetable are accessible.

There are lot of really old rich families in both the areas who have various business interests and they prefer to start new projects near their own localities, our own industrial units, orange production,processing export units, strawberry, now kiwi/cherry/avocado and ostrich meat and wheat areas all within 2.5 hours drive from our family residences.

Central Punjab is more rich than us northerners major industrial SME industry and rice/wheat/meat/hides production is from this part.

Poverty is a major issue in southern punjab, sind and balochistan only because of few factors presence of local lords/waderas lack of respective provincial Govt will, healthcare/education facilities and industrial/business infrastructure.

But now there is a concentrated albeit distributed efforts to bring these areas out of poverty, there is a whole theory of GT Road (N5) economics micro-finance banks, charity organizations, Govt, poverty alleviation fund and private entrepreneurs have started various projects. Due to CPEC led infrastructure development few industrial/business projects are in progress including two of ours including long term projects like olives. It is also the basis of my doctorate in economics thesis which I am currently pursuing.

Its not ideal but a CM from south punjab is a good development, and if we succeed in creating another province that'll be great.

Lot of good things are happening in balochistan, sind is altogether a different story. The development and progress in poverty alleviation is not ideal but we are moving in that direction.

And the data presented by UNDP and PPAF is always very questionable because of sample size, quality of survey, sample selection procedures, lack of willingness by people to share information so I don't really much believe in them except for a general guideline.

Another thing which separates us from Bangladesh and many part of india is life style/spending habits and that is altogether a different analysis, labor cost here is much higher than both countries one of the reason we cannot replicate their models.

South asia means the larger players like bangladesh/India/Pakistan have to jointly come up with a strategy of high end products means electronics Far east has a very strong base and thus export base due t presence of TSMC and local expertise, this is something we really lack I know India has tried and trying in this direction, Bangladesh I have no idea, Pakistan too is trying but it is such a cash intensive setup that no one country can do it, we are talking about 1 trillion dollar worth of CAPEX, oh did I mention Global foundries is up for sales.

So to summarize to each their own model.

You might want to check out:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/in-p...plant-begins-operations.641181/#post-11861612

 

[Paul2]

Ok now lets focus on our discussion besides the unpleasantness, biggest challenge for our part of Asia the south east asia (Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, laos, Bangladesh, India, nepal, sri lanka, bhutan and Pakistan) is poverty alleviation. Some believe equal distribution of wealth, in an ideal world yes may be, but we live in a different world.

Each country has adopted its own model for poverty alleviation some are progressing while others are regressing.
Among the progressing ones malaysia, bangladesh top the list while cambodia, laos, myanmar are in the southward direction.

Pakistan lies somewhere in the middle. Remember our constitution is very different from the top two it is now more of a confederation rather than a federation. Most of the times it is apathy of provincial Govt (states in your country) to take firm steps in the direction of poverty alleviation.

e.g; I belong to North Punjab due to educational opportunities, lack of wadera ism, excessive agriculture, and business opportunities HDI is much better not only in Punjab but large part of KPK and GB. Staple food, meat, dairy, clothing and vegetable are accessible.

There are lot of really old rich families in both the areas who have various business interests and they prefer to start new projects near their own localities, our own industrial units, orange production,processing export units, strawberry, now kiwi/cherry and wheat areas all withing 2.5 hours drives from our family residences.

Central Punjab is more rich than us northerners major industrial SME industry and rice/wheat/meat/hides production is from this part.

Poverty is a major issue in southern punjab, sind and balochistan only because of few factors presence of local lords/waderas lack of respective provincial Govt will, healthcare/education facilities and industrial/business infrastructure.

But now there is a concentrated albeit distributed efforts to bring these areas out of poverty, there is a whole theory of GT Road (N5) economics micro-finance banks, charity organizations, Govt, poverty alleviation fund and private entrepreneurs have started various projects. Due to CPEC led infrastructure development few industrial/business projects are in progress including two of ours. It is also the basis of my doctorate in economics thesis which I am currently pursuing.

Its not ideal but a CM from south punjab is a good development, and if we succeed in creating another province that'll be great.

Lot of good things are happening in balochistan, sind is altogether a different story. The development and progress in poverty alleviation is not ideal but we are moving in that direction.

And the data presented by UNDP and PPAF is always very questionable because of sample size, quality of survey, sample selection procedures, lack of willingness by people to share information so I don't really much believe in them except for a general guideline.

Another thing which separates us from Bangladesh and many part of india is life style/spending habits and that is altogether a different analysis, labor cost here is much higher than both countries one of the reason we cannot replicate their models.

South asia means the larger players like bangladesh/India/Pakistan have to jointly come up with a strategy of high end products means electronics Far east has a very strong base and thus export base due t presence of TSMC and local expertise, this is something we really lack I know India has tried and trying in this direction, Bangladesh I have no idea, Pakistan too is trying but it is such a cash intensive setup that no one country can do it, we are talking about 1 trillion dollar worth of CAPEX, oh did I mention Global foundries is up for sales.

So to summarize to each their own model.

Spending a lunch break to write a this.

Above all, practice shows that you can't "institute" development from above to any major extend. Whatever tiny, tiny, sickly industry a country has, it is the only thing that will be pulling the country forward in near future, and the only thing that can provide income for the prime majority of population. Everything else combined cannot reach even 10% of impact from employment.

And any new greenfield developments will be coming very, very slowly, so do not put much hope on them too. Long before Bangladeshi textile industry was a thing on the global stage, it existed only as a local player. Same with Vietnam, before light industries took off, most of them were doing thing like rubber sandals for living. None of newly industrialised countries "pulled a rabbit" out of a hat with some new internally developed industry.

China too did not "leapfrog" any stage on the industrial pyramid. It was dysfunctional, and sickly state companies that led the initial export industry. And it took a one decade, and one Zhu Rongji to further the progress to the point when Chinese private sector industries became globally competitive.

Development is all about dealing with existing problems at hand in my opinion.

 

[mmr]

Yup I'd still reckon that the majority of intelligent Pakistanis would like to know what transpired in Bangladesh for the last forty years. Our door and minds remain open if Pakistanis want to take a page from our book...my Pakistani friends in the US fully agree.

As far as NGO's and export-oriented growth, a lot of right decisions (as opposed to wrong) were taken, which may not have been shared with Pakistanis in Pakistan itself. We were lucky enough to not have Pakistan's issues either. But those days are over. I don't think not a lot is holding back Pakistan to set up factories and start adding value.

The only reason I remain so passionate about sharing these stories from Bangladesh is that my background as a 'business activist' in Dhaka's Chambers and also as a 'business matchmaker' have taken me to so many places (including half a dozen trade fairs every year, that I like to eagerly share these Bangladeshi export oriented development stories with Pakistani delegates, and it has seemed that the enthusiasm seemed somewhat tepid. It seemed bizarre at the time (still does). Who doesn't like money and a better standard of living health and education-wise?

Obviously some of these Pakistani Sanghi-buddies in PDF have their own reasons to reject Bangladesh' success story - not least because they probably don't have Pakistan's best interest and only the preservation of their own status quo in mind.

If you can keep 'em (Pakistanis) down at the firm and they haven't seen Paree - how'd they know what they were missing? More equal wages, better standards of living, who needs that?

But just like we have seen in Bangladesh, remittance is only part of the pie. To have a robust economy not dependent on global 'political blocks'; you need to have a strong economic position from which to negotiate.

And how can you reject economic development based on which ethnicity it came from? This is patently hilarious. There is nothing specifically 'Bangladeshi-smelling' about the success of Bangladesh and export growth....

Reject our story because we are Kaley, Natey, Bhookhey, Nangey? We aren't asking for your daughter's hand in marriage, we just want a strong Pakistan, it behooves us to have this in the neighborhood strategy-wise. That's all.

It is all about concentrating on collaborating with East Asian sources and driving economic growth with diligent investments (and not all because of cheap labor in stitching shirts and shorts). In other words bringing in Asian Tiger model of growth. However I leave it to Pakistanis to trace their own trajectory of growth. They know best.

Bigotry and psychotic issues offered by some of these Pakistani folks won't take Pakistan to higher levels of development, these people are essentially holding back Pakistan in the middle ages. Stay in Pakistan bigots - your hilarious bigotry is rejected most everywhere in the open world nowadays...

Ppl keep making fun of low value manufacturing without realizing if you add up global market of textile footwear and toys its 1 trillion dollar plus opportunity. China despite being advanced economy still export over 300 billion dollar plus low value manufacturing. At the end money is money. Pakistan and bd both can benefit even they can grab just 10 percent of this market. Each can earn 100 billion easily. Thats a good start.

 

[Nilgiri]

Linked with my previous post my philosphy of life is :
عرفئ تومیندیش زغوغاۓ رقیباں

آواز سگاں کم نہ کند رزق گداراں

It is Persian.

Ok now lets focus on our discussion besides the unpleasantness, biggest challenge for our part of Asia the south east asia (Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, laos, Bangladesh, India, nepal, sri lanka, bhutan and Pakistan) is poverty alleviation. Some believe equal distribution of wealth, in an ideal world yes may be, but we live in a different world.

Each country has adopted its own model for poverty alleviation some are progressing while others are regressing.
Among the progressing ones malaysia, bangladesh top the list while cambodia, laos, myanmar are in the southward direction.

Pakistan lies somewhere in the middle. Remember our constitution is very different from the top two it is now more of a confederation rather than a federation. Most of the times it is apathy of provincial Govt (states in your country) to take firm steps in the direction of poverty alleviation.

e.g; I belong to North Punjab due to educational opportunities, lack of wadera ism, excessive agriculture, and business opportunities HDI is much better not only in Punjab but large part of KPK and GB. Staple food, meat, dairy, clothing and vegetable are accessible.

There are lot of really old rich families in both the areas who have various business interests and they prefer to start new projects near their own localities, our own industrial units, orange production,processing export units, strawberry, now kiwi/cherry/avocado and ostrich meat and wheat areas all within 2.5 hours drive from our family residences.

Central Punjab is more rich than us northerners major industrial SME industry and rice/wheat/meat/hides production is from this part.

Poverty is a major issue in southern punjab, sind and balochistan only because of few factors presence of local lords/waderas lack of respective provincial Govt will, healthcare/education facilities and industrial/business infrastructure.

But now there is a concentrated albeit distributed efforts to bring these areas out of poverty, there is a whole theory of GT Road (N5) economics micro-finance banks, charity organizations, Govt, poverty alleviation fund and private entrepreneurs have started various projects. Due to CPEC led infrastructure development few industrial/business projects are in progress including two of ours including long term projects like olives. It is also the basis of my doctorate in economics thesis which I am currently pursuing.

Its not ideal but a CM from south punjab is a good development, and if we succeed in creating another province that'll be great.

Lot of good things are happening in balochistan, sind is altogether a different story. The development and progress in poverty alleviation is not ideal but we are moving in that direction.

And the data presented by UNDP and PPAF is always very questionable because of sample size, quality of survey, sample selection procedures, lack of willingness by people to share information so I don't really much believe in them except for a general guideline.

Another thing which separates us from Bangladesh and many part of india is life style/spending habits and that is altogether a different analysis, labor cost here is much higher than both countries one of the reason we cannot replicate their models.

South asia means the larger players like bangladesh/India/Pakistan have to jointly come up with a strategy of high end products means electronics Far east has a very strong base and thus export base due t presence of TSMC and local expertise, this is something we really lack I know India has tried and trying in this direction, Bangladesh I have no idea, Pakistan too is trying but it is such a cash intensive setup that no one country can do it, we are talking about 1 trillion dollar worth of CAPEX, oh did I mention Global foundries is up for sales.

So to summarize to each their own model.

You might want to check out:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/in-p...plant-begins-operations.641181/#post-11861612

Gem of a post. IMO, there need to be sizeable perceivable (undisputed by everyone) breakaway (in better managed/run areas) past some hazy "paper number" game (that become the forte of politicians and their brochure lackeys...and you can see one still lingering around here) for there really to be relevant pressure to learn from for application in lagging areas. For example in India case this is starting to be a phenomenon when comparing the south+west now compared to the north and middle hinterlands....but while it shows the problems at root, it also shows what the solutions are so in the long run I feel its positive thing for such discrepancies to exist even at such scale in a country....because it give good example to learn from and emulate in other areas.

This kind of thing is lost when you simply enumerate a country as some totally homogeneous monolith....and not to mention losing perspective by not checking relevance of the sample+methodology underlying (esp how these can also vary in quality between sub-regions, regions and countries etc).

BTW... watch out, the super-intelligent machi gang are onto you , because you displayed "wrong think":

false-flagger Pakistani trolls

 

[Bilal9]

Ppl keep making fun of low value manufacturing without realizing if you add up global market of textile footwear and toys its 1 trillion dollar plus opportunity. China despite being advanced economy still export over 300 billion dollar plus low value manufacturing. At the end money is money. Pakistan and bd both can benefit even they can grab just 10 percent of this market. Each can earn 100 billion easily. Thats a good start.

Yup that is a GREAT start. Once you improve your exports and solvency, then you can graduate to higher level value edition like manufacturing machinery, cars, railway equipment etc. like China, Korea and other Tiger economies are doing.

Bangladesh is already at stage one because in the late 80's Korea and Taiwan got expensive in labor for shoes and clothes and this got transferred to countries like China and Bangladesh. China had inbuilt supplier advantages - so Bangladesh's development got delayed a bit.

But we finally got there by late 2010's when even China got expensive. Now no one can match Bangladesh in low value addition manufacturing.

But we can't stay here forever (wages are going up in Bangladesh too), we need to graduate to higher value addition like electronics (cellphone and laptop related stuff), pharma, shipbuilding, IT freelancing and home appliances. Some of it is already on a roll and happening around the various export zones.

Unless we plan to get stuck in the middle income trap, we will need to train our youth heavily (with govt. incentive plans) in various vocational trades like for example, advanced welding, metalworking and lathe operations, among other things.

CNC is one thing, but no cheap CNC can match the flexibility, precision and workmanship of a well-trained worker in Bangladesh.

 

[ps3linux]

Gem of a post. IMO, there need to be sizeable perceivable (undisputed by everyone) breakaway (in better managed/run areas) past some hazy "paper number" game (that become the forte of politicians and their brochure lackeys...and you can see one still lingering around here) for there really to be relevant pressure to learn from for application in lagging areas. For example in India case this is starting to be a phenomenon when comparing the south+west now compared to the north and middle hinterlands....but while it shows the problems at root, it also shows what the solutions are so in the long run I feel its positive thing for such discrepancies to exist even at such scale in a country....because it give good example to learn from and emulate in other areas.

This kind of thing is lost when you simply enumerate a country as some totally homogeneous monolith....and not to mention losing perspective by not checking relevance of the sample+methodology underlying (esp how these can also vary in quality between sub-regions, regions and countries etc).

BTW... watch out, the super-intelligent machi gang are onto you , because you displayed "wrong think":

I think I mentioned it to somewhere else, a major error made by most of the economists is that they take a snapshot of circumstances and build their projection model on that snapshot, that snapshot many a times is statistics /studies what they fail to take into account is a touch of reality. After three degrees in engineering (computer,electronics and financial engineering/behavioral finance) I decided to pursue business studies one of the things that clicked right away was the importance of demographics, and I understood what is wrong with failed business / marketing/economic models only because of demographics. How much of their data is primary, how much is secondary and how much is useless self made is open for discussion.

One of the reasons I am against adopting the economic model of any country for poverty alleviation be it chinese/bangaldeshi/indian/malaysian or any other for that matter is simple because of demographics, even within Punjab there are atleast 10 different type of demo-graphs which I have to take into account before proposing any economic model. There are over 70 languages spoken in Pakistan, means 70 population groups even Punjabi has dozens of variants thus population groups. So any poverty alleviation project has to take into account these factors.

One of the key thing that came out during our war against terrorism in Pakistan a concentrated effort to rout out extremism/radicalism was poverty. What I call is stake in the society, education, healthcare, infrastructure and economic opportunities all included. e.g; the west although I have reservations about it has allowed a stake in society to majority of its population I call it the debt trap/the very foundation of capitalism. Upon receiving a pay check an average american would make payments as credit card/social security/medicare-medicaid/insurance/mortgage(PITI)/Car/other lease item/coverdyl 529 or whatever/IRA and then utilities, they are so stuck in their circle of life that an average american doesn't know much beyond a few zip codes. Same for Europe and rest of the developed world. So it has been decided in principal that not only we have to rout out extremism/radicalism but address the basic root of stake in society as well, there are many efforts afoot in that direction some are public knowledge and many are not, due to many considerations and I am not going to share them here.

I did like Dr. Manmohan Singh's model of poverty alleviation, despite reservation Dr. Younus' Grameen model of community based lending, although I am impressed with the Chinese model of end to end supply chain management/capacity building, Bangladesh has elements of Chinese model but it is primarily home made. Due to reasons mentioned above this model will fail in Pakistan. I am more of an Islamic finance mode of poverty alleviation proponent a regular supporter/donor of Akhuwat model of poverty alleviation as compared to indian or Bangladeshi model.

Despite my reservations and continued turning down of any advisory position in center or province one of the SEZ has somehow convinced me to be the adviser for an end-to-end supply chain of textiles including capacity building, education, industrial development, expertise - trained staff, display and international marketing along SME and micro industrial capacity so where people see negativity about Pakistan I see opportunities and what is actually happening behind the scenes.

People on this board could be divided among four broad categories professionals/analysts people who could see beyond the pettiness, the diaper babies/kiddies you can see them hurling personal insults at each other over very small differences in opinions most of the time one liner analyst/trolls, closely associated with the second are copy pasters throughout their entire exalted presence their contribution is picking news/reports here and there and pasting them with zero value addition, and propaganda machines. The last one there is a whole lot of them particularly from china/Bangladesh and Iran for them they are living in a utopia while rest of the world is a dystopian society. Some of the propaganda material is stupidly hilarious, Ghazi does share pictures of infrastructure project underway/being completed in Pakistan but that's it unless a Particular Pakistani is from the second type of person we don't gloat about petty projects like opening of a two lane bridge/ work initiation of a small tunnel on any forum of any other country, that's just simply petty or 1/3 of all new dramas worldwide are in china. Many of this propaganda has zero to single digit comments denoting lack of interest by international audience.

People in many parts of asia waste 90% of their lives in useless activities of finding what others are doing or gloating about what they have achieved, I don't want to waste my life in either, what is most important is what I am doing which benefits my country and my family one of the reasons I don't bother about other countries/communities and their experiences good or bad.

Now something on technology you see every computing/communication device which is connected to internet has a unique ID(mac)/IP (that particular time).PDF is hosted on a server with a unique ID. What people see as internet is only 3-5% of the actual internet connected devices, the other part is called dark web, it is dark and dangerous but all the fun stuff is there, there are regular war games testing the skill/cunning/finesse/perseverance of those taking a part in those war games needless to say 99.9 percent of PDF population cannot survive there for minutes. I might have picked up a skill or two from that world being a computer/electrical engineer and a computer geek. Its a simplified version the gist of what goes on.

So if someone really really wanted to get even with someone first he/she will get access to PDF root level, get the list of users/passwords/ log files/IPs even VPN. If there is a VPN even then there is an IP associated, then access to VPN server again users/logs once from there one could get the internet service provider, again another dive into the root of ISP users/logs/timestamps bingo you got your target. Now onto the router of your target once you are there, you know how to fake logs, plant files, one can get anything credit card info all personal details, SS number, tax data, medical records, planting nasty material in the target's devices/and lots of other nasty stuff even espionage material and then inform the law enforcement you target is good as gone forever. All these activities do not necessarily fall into legal zone, but on the dark web it is said there are gloaters, hackers and crackers many of them you hear about law enforcement people often get them, but the elite of them all you never ever hear about them they don't exist and yet they they are there.This is just a scenario and I am just a naiive user of pdf, but then again may be I am not.

BTW: There is another defense related discussion board, I am writing a series of articles whose excerpts are borrowed from another book I intend to write, I am analyzing in depth things about Pakistan its history/psyche in relation with subcontinent and its western border.

 

[albertbravo]

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