Bangladesh protests Pakistan Parliament resolutions

[Armstrong]

the proposition of English was with pure hindsight..sole state language status of Urdu would only serve as a continuation of age-old Urdu practice in Bengal and of course elsewhere. and it was even supposed to continue today 'unofficially' if it weren't for the political engineering.

I never really understood this completely that for all the wrongs we did why did the Bengalis never evolved a counter-narrative to the Mujib lead espousal of Bangladeshi's National Narrative ?

How is it that all of a sudden the mention of Quaid-e-Azam, of Fatima Jinnah, of the entire Pakistan Movement & everything that went with it was washed away from the collective memories of the Bengalis & instead only the Language Issue, '71 & the Injustices done by the West - which are, if I may say so true but also blown out of proportion - are all that remain from the period '47 to '71 ?

 

[kalu_miah]

@khair_ctg @Al-zakir , respected Bhais, I appreciate your opinions and sentiments on the Urdu issue.

Lets looks at some facts on Urdu:
Urdu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Persian was the official language in most of South Asia till 1837, when it was changed to English and Urdu
- Urdu could have become more wide spread in Bangladesh landmass if Pakistan was not broken, but India engineered the breakup of Pakistan and Indian agent Awami League were adamant about not just removing Urdu but English as well as medium of instruction in newly "independent" Bangladesh
- today Urdu's alter ego, Sanskritized Urdu aka Hindi is getting popular instead due to Bollywood, TV etc.

What we need to remember is that Bangladesh landmass was an integral part of Northeastern South Asia and this border is a new phenomenon that only became a barrier to free movement in 1947. So before 1947, people traveled freely and settled down wherever they found some advantage of doing so.

Who were the rulers of Bengal since advent of Muslim rule and what languages did they speak:
- initially most were Turkic, speaking some Siberian Turkic language, many among them also knew Persian as it was the Lingua Franca in their home region of Central Asia in those times
- Persians were also present in large numbers as bureaucrats and high officials
- Mughals (Turko-Mongols) spoke Chagatai Turki (close to todays Uzbek and Uighur) as mother tongue and Persian as official court language
- Urdu came into picture much later I think around late 18th century, as it evolved to become the common language for most Muslim ruling class in South Asia, as a mixture of local Delhi Khariboli as the base and Persian, Arabic and Turkic loan words added to this base. I guess with genetic mixing of migrant and local population, language also got mixed as a result. But it happened really late, only in 1837 Persian was replaced with Urdu and English as official language.

Now lets look at what happened to the Turkic people and their languages and scripts:
- during Muslim rule, before they went under Russian Imperial rule (except Ottoman), most used Arabic script while speaking their different versions of Turkic languages, Anatolian, Turkmen, Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uighur
- today here is the status:
Anatolian (Turkey): dropped Arabic script for Latin (English) during Kemal's ultra secular europeanization program to get close to Europe
Turkmen, Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz - use Russian Cyrillic script introduced by Russian rulers, but some have plans to adopt Latin following Turkey, now that they are "independent"
Uighur, Kyrgyz and Kazakh living in China's Xinjiang: Chinese Communist party rulers changed their script from Arabic to English, allegedly, to reduce their ties with Islam, but when they started becoming highly proficient in English, due to familiarity of script, I heard the script was promptly changed back to Arabic (someone told me, may be some Chinese poster can give a more accurate account)

Language is a treasure for any group of human beings, as it is a huge part of group identity, but it is not the sole factor. That is why Punjab and Bengal were partitioned despite having common language. Religion at least in South Asia trumps language.

Also, the main purpose of language is communication. If Pakistan was still intact, I would support promoting Urdu in Bangladesh landmass, just as it is being done in Pakistan, as a common medium of communication between the entire population who speak many different mother tongue. But for Bangladesh, since 1971, that requirement has ended. So at this point, although we have some Urdu speakers and many Bengali's can speak Urdu/Hindi, I see no great importance for this in Bangladesh for the foreseeable future.

For Bangladesh:
- Bangla will serve as the main language as most of the population knows this as mother tongue, and others can speak it
- English will remain our most important second language
- Arabic should be promoted as the third language
- we should promote Arabic as well as English script (alphabets) in addition to our traditional Bangla (Devnagari style) script, and add loan word from these two languages replacing sanskrit words, as much as possible

Why these additional scripts, this is because English as a global language is important for all nations, and it is very easy to use in computers (we already do it as it is so practical, Amra Evabe Bangla Likhi). Secondly, why Arabic scripts, because 500 million strong majority Sunni Muslim Arab world will remain our most important ally, more than any other nation or group of nations and it will help us to read and understand Qur'an better.

Please note that changing script or adding loan words does not mean that we loose a spoken language, it means that we are pragmatic and are willing to change according to our needs. We should learn from history, that we adapt to survive, we leave behind the past and embrace the future. For that future, neither Hindi nor Urdu is important for us as far as I can see.

 

[kalu_miah]

I never really understood this completely that for all the wrongs we did why did the Bengalis never evolved a counter-narrative to the Mujib lead espousal of Bangladeshi's National Narrative ?

How is it that all of a sudden the mention of Quaid-e-Azam, of Fatima Jinnah, of the entire Pakistan Movement & everything that went with it was washed away from the collective memories of the Bengalis & instead only the Language Issue, '71 & the Injustices done by the West - which are, if I may say so true but also blown out of proportion - are all that remain from the period '47 to '71 ?

Although this question was not addressed to me, I will try to answer it to the best of my knowledge and understanding of our history:

I am guessing it is about what happened to the zeal of Pakistan only a few decades later after 1947.

1. Bengal was and is a unique place in South Asia, although it was far away from the original Khilafa area, this frontier region became majority Muslim unlike any other area in India. The reason for this unique phenomenon is described here:
The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204–1760

2. Although Muslim Bengali's supported the Pakistan movement for a separate homeland, there are major cultural and demographic differences between East and West wing of then Pakistan that contributed to the difference in maintaining the spirit of Pakistan movement. These in my opinion are:
- todays Pakistan has a longer history with Islam, as some parts of Pakistan was under Khilafa since Muhammad Bin Qasim's days, whereas in Bengal it was spread mainly through Arab maritime traders in coastal areas (like other coastal areas of South and South East Asia) first, then much later with migration of Sufi saints during Muslim rule since 1200 AD
- ethnically the two people are different, Bengali's are more emotional and sentimental and less logical
- we had a higher percentage of Hindu population
- although there were some serious riots in Noakhali, communal riots in then East Pakistan or Bangladesh is unheard of. Most Bangladeshi Muslims, I would say even Jamati's are very comfortable with Hindu's and treat them like any other Bangladeshi's. There is some trust deficit due to history of Hindu's blind support for India and their agent Awami League and also their ongoing transfer of capital to India, but these mistrust do not create riots where people lose lives (except in today's false flag attacks and looting by AL goons, just to blame Jamat/BNP), unlike what we see in India
- the situation with then West Pakistan was different. First there was killings and revenge killings in Punjab between Muslims and Sikhs, so this cut off ties between fellow Punjabi's I think, which did not happen in Bengal. Bengali Hindu's took their time to sell their property and move to India over years, decades and the migration process still continues today, mostly peacefully
- in my view, India as a state and govt. intelligence agencies took advantage of this relatively peaceful Hindu-Muslim relation in Bengal and used it to brainwash our leaders with several memes
- Mujib with his 6 points was brainwashed to believe that autonomy according to the 6 points will make our wing prosperous, as it will stop the West wing from pilfering our "wealth" (mostly from Jute export)
- Bhashani was Islamic social democrat and Shiraj Shikder was communist, both believed in outright independence and in a way both tried to leverage Mujib's popularity as well as Indian agents in Awami League (like Tajuddin and Mujib Bahini leaders like Tofael Ahmed et al) to gain independence. They saw the Eastern wing as under colonial occupation by the feudal military elite of Western wing. After 1971 both however correctly figured out that we became Indian vassal. Shiraj was killed by Mujib, using Indian trained Rakkhi Bahini, the new name for Mujib Bahini
- none of the above leaders, in my opinion, could foresee the threat from a potential hostile India, which surrounds us from all 3 sides. The reasons I believe are

- lack of natural instinctive sense of geopolitics
- lack of training on such matters among our people
- short memory​

3. Awami Muslim League broke off from Muslim League, established by Bhashani and Suhrawardy and then it became Awami League, dropping the word Muslim. I think at the same time, Hindu political leaders in East Pakistan Congress merged with Awami League. So Hindu elite in West Bengal and East Pakistan worked together to create these meme's of oppression (language and economic), first brainwashed our leaders and then used these brainwashed leaders to brainwash the masses. All of this strategic brainwashing happened in Bengali language and Bengali script, which was not possible to detect by non-Bengali's in then Pakistan, unless it was translated by Bengali speakers, so there was thus a communication gap which I believe was fully exploited by Indians

4. So to answer the question, masses have short memory and are prone to propaganda, whoever uses the tools more effectively at hand, usually wins the game and can brainwash the masses the way they want, regardless of the actual reality. This of course goes back to the Big Lie theory:
Big Lie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today, the propaganda is less effective, because people who have information can counter the propaganda via new technology like the internet and burst the bubbles created by the propaganda masters. But this was not the case during 1947-1971.

 

[Saiful Islam]

Please note that changing script or adding loan words does not mean that we loose a spoken language, it means that we are pragmatic and are willing to change according to our needs. We should learn from history, that we adapt to survive, we leave behind the past and embrace the future. For that future, neither Hindi nor Urdu is important for us as far as I can see.

I agree, the Bengali language, also has it's fair share of loan words from Persian and Arabic, it doesn't mean we've lost our language or culture, because these words have been incorporated for thousands of years. I know the Sylheti dialect has MANY Persian load words, if anything the same amount as Urdu. Our script maybe sanskrit but it doesn't stop Bangladesh having some of the worlds best Hafidh and reciters, such as International Quran competition winners 2005 and 2013.

 

[jaunty]

Our script maybe sanskrit

Your script is Sanskrit? Wow man!

 

[kalu_miah]

I never really understood this completely that for all the wrongs we did why did the Bengalis never evolved a counter-narrative to the Mujib lead espousal of Bangladeshi's National Narrative ?

How is it that all of a sudden the mention of Quaid-e-Azam, of Fatima Jinnah, of the entire Pakistan Movement & everything that went with it was washed away from the collective memories of the Bengalis & instead only the Language Issue, '71 & the Injustices done by the West - which are, if I may say so true but also blown out of proportion - are all that remain from the period '47 to '71 ?

A detailed answer:
THE ROLE OF AWAMI LEAGUE IN THE BREAK up of Pakistan

 

[IamBengali]

Your script is Sanskrit? Wow man!

We don't want to Arabianize our mother language by writing Bengali in Arabic script which West Pakistani dictators wanted forcefully in East Pakistan but we do have many Persian and Portuguese words in Bengali. Arabic ? I don't think there are much Arabic words in Bengali.

Arabic is our religious language but Bengali is our mother language. 99% Bangladeshis don't understand Arabic. Most just read Quran without even understanding any meaning of it. So having Arabic script is out of question.

 

[Saiful Islam]

We don't want to Arabianize our mother language by writing Bengali in Arabic script which West Pakistani dictators wanted forcefully in East Pakistan but we do have many Persian and Portuguese words in Bengali. Arabic ? I don't think there are much Arabic words in Bengali.

Arabic is our religious language but Bengali is our mother language. 99% Bangladeshis don't understand Arabic. Most just read Quran without even understanding any meaning of it. So having Arabic script is out of question.

No one was talking about "Arabianizing" Bangla, how can you change a language which is over 2000 years old. We have many Persian and Arabic loan words which have been in Bangla, or in my regional dialect for hundreds/thousands of years.

This generation of Bengali's can't even read or write Bengali.

 

[Al-zakir]

@khair_ctg @Al-zakir , respected Bhais, I appreciate your opinions and sentiments on the Urdu issue.

For Bangladesh:
- Bangla will serve as the main language as most of the population knows this as mother tongue, and others can speak it
- English will remain our most important second language
- Arabic should be promoted as the third language
- we should promote Arabic as well as English script (alphabets) in addition to our traditional Bangla (Devnagari style) script, and add loan word from these two languages replacing sanskrit words, as much as possible

Why these additional scripts, this is because English as a global language is important for all nations, and it is very easy to use in computers (we already do it as it is so practical, Amra Evabe Bangla Likhi). Secondly, why Arabic scripts, because 500 million strong majority Sunni Muslim Arab world will remain our most important ally, more than any other nation or group of nations and it will help us to read and understand Qur'an better.

Please note that changing script or adding loan words does not mean that we loose a spoken language, it means that we are pragmatic and are willing to change according to our needs. We should learn from history, that we adapt to survive, we leave behind the past and embrace the future. For that future, neither Hindi nor Urdu is important for us as far as I can see.

If Bangladesh want's to remain Muslims then some point in future Bd would have to replace current Devanagari script to Arabic/Persian script. We already have over 5K Persian words alone in our vocabulary however these words are no longer in use by common man due to imposed Hindu literature by Hindu loving Awami intellectual. Bangladesh also need to banned literature written by Hindu writer like Tagore. These literature making our population half Hindu.

However in order implement above Hindu leaning forces must be neutralized. A strong Islamic minded government will be necessity to rescue the nation form total Hinduization.

I agree with you that Arabic should be compulsory subject from middle school to high school. I just do not understand what's stopping us from this. Urdu shout be introduce in high school to college label as optional subject. Urdu fairly easy to pickup by Muslims. As you know in USA we have optional subject like Spanish, French and other languages. I think all we need open mindset to embrace the best for next generation. Knowing more then one langue definitely a plus point in the time of globalization.

I am fluent in English, Urdu and Bangla. I can confirm from my own experience that knowing other langue is a Plus-not a minus.

And whilst none of us knew Bengali even by a long shot quite a few people from Bangladesh knew Urdu for it to serve as the only impartial choice to be our lingua franca; impartial because it is spoken as the Mother Tongue by less than 9% of Pakistanis even after all these years which means back then this would be even less.

In our Masjid there is a older Pakistani who speak Punjabi only. No Urdu or English. But he understand Urdu. May be a Punjabi nationalist. Not sure. He is not literate. He sometimes stop by me to translate English document. I can understand Punjabi(somewhat) but can not speak it that well. He talks Punjabi while I speak Urdu. It's works just about fine.

However, Punjabi-Bangla doesn't work in two way communication.

 

[Armstrong]

In our Masjid there is a older Pakistani who speak Punjabi only. No Urdu or English. But he understand Urdu. May be a Punjabi nationalist. Not sure. He is not literate. He sometimes stop by me to translate English document. I can understand Punjabi(somewhat) but can not speak it that well. He talks Punjabi while I speak Urdu. It's works just about fine.

However, Punjabi-Bangla doesn't work in two way communication.

Pakistan has yet to know such a rarity as a Punjabi Nationalists !

Because Punjab is more pluralistic than most countries & so Punjabis aren't Nationalistic in that sense but they are very serious about Pakistani Nationalism !

I think it could be because Punjabis grow up listening to & speaking Urdu so that it isn't even a Second Language for most its like having two mother tongues at the same time for most of us & therefore you'd often listen to a Punjabi who starts a sentence in Punjabi but finishes it in Urdu or the other way around !

But no I'm sure Punjabi & Bengali doesn't work because well none of us know any Bengali & I'm sure barring the loan words or the common words between Urdu & Punjabi, most of you wouldn't understand any Punjabi either !

 

[Al-zakir]

Arabic is our religious language but Bengali is our mother language. 99% Bangladeshis don't understand Arabic. Most just read Quran without even understanding any meaning of it. So having Arabic script is out of question.

So what should be done to correct this problem?

Bengali nationalists are worst kind of hypocrite there is. Here is why. I have witness Tagore loving Islamic named murtids oppose Islam all their lousily life, curse on Islamic scholars day and night yet after death those bloody munafiq scum call upon a Maulana for full Islamic barrier. Lanat on their hypocrite soul.

You are one of those hypocrite?

 

[Al-zakir]

Pakistan has yet to know such a rarity as a Punjabi Nationalists !

Yeah, yeah sure. I feel sorry for you guys. In united Pakistan you were bombarded with blame and it's still continue in half Pakistan. Abbey masla kya hai bhai?


[/quote]
I think it could be because Punjabis grow up listening to & speaking Urdu so that it isn't even a Second Language for most its like having two mother tongues at the same time for most of us & therefore you'd often listen to a Punjabi who starts a sentence in Punjabi but finishes it in Urdu or the other way around !
[/quote]

Very true but only common with older Pakistani.

[/quote]
But no I'm sure Punjabi & Bengali doesn't work because well none of us know any Bengali & I'm sure barring the loan words or the common words between Urdu & Punjabi, most of you wouldn't understand any Punjabi either ! [/quote]

Our Imam is Pakistani. There are many Bangladeshi in this Masjid. Urdu is main langue after Arabic. Punjabi or Bengali won't work.

I find Pakistani Punjabi easier than Indian version. I guess this is due to your version has more Persian/Arabic words than Indian one.

Sanskrit Hindi is sound weird and tormenting as hell. When Mr. Manhoan speak, I get headache. They hijacked an articulated langue and then completely killed it. We are to protest this cruel act by Indians.

 

[Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah sure. I feel sorry for you guys. In united Pakistan you were bombarded with blame and it's still continue in half Pakistan. Abbey masla kya hai bhai?

I'm a Kashmiri !

 

[Al-zakir]

I'm a Kashmiri !

In Bangladesh your are Punjabi.

It's 42 year of separation but our politician(Awami dalals) still blame on Pakistan for their failures. Believe me or not, there is not a day pass without cursing on Pakistan by Awami dogs for no reason. Holding us in past for their own benefit. Bangladeshi now completely divided between Indian dalal vs Muslims.

Aagar taufiq hota toh Banda TV ke andar ghuskar laath mar dey kabiso ka mukh par. Wallahi.

 

[Armstrong]

In Bangladesh your are Punjabi.

Because I'm born & bred in Punjab....I'm a Punjabi too !