Bangladesh Air Force to purchase Mi-28NE Havoc attack helicopter from Russia

[The Ronin]

Reaction of sanction? We were supposed the buy 8 Apache!

I thought Bangladesh had apaches already contracted so what happened?

Nope. It's already at finance ministry so decision was taken before these recent incident. Apache was only "down selected" and we didn't even sign GSOMIA. Mentioned it here before that negotiation for Apache failed a year ago.

"A recent move by the US to sell sophisticated defence equipment, including Apache helicopters, could not be materialised. US officials admitted that they had several rounds of talks with the authorities concerned on selling of sophisticated US defence equipment, which they claimed 'best in the world'."

BD not interested in US defence deal under Indo-Pacific strategy

1. BAF had considered Apaches and then decided against procuring them. This is BA buying Havocs. I believe the news is incorrectly attributing this to BAF.
2. These decisions are not made overnight - Mi-28's have been in consideration with BA for a while now. This is not a "reaction" to anything - procurement decisions never go through this quickly between BA, PMO, MoD and MoF.

No, it's obviously for BAF. Deadline for BA's attack helicopter tender was 7th November. It'll take at least one/two years to select. While BAF's program is at least two years old. Do you hate BAF this much that you can't even believe these are for them? President said in 2020 that these are for them. Watch it at 55:42.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=310373339872067

Note: NE is the export designation for NM.

NE is the export designation for N and NM is the upgraded version of N which isn't certified for export yet.

If true, where is the logic here?

Totally indigenous Turkish version of the T-129 will probably be ready for export by 2025 and BA has no urgent need for attack helicopters right now.

How come Bangladesh did not consider the Turkish-Italian T-129 ATAK instead?

This is the best any country can currently get if it's not Apache. Armor and weapon is better than T-129. Besides it comes with a mast mounted radar and will be able to fire 100km missile in future. BAF can use Mig-29, Mi-171 and Yak-130's two weapons (S-8 and R-73) with Mi-28 and overhaul locally in our Mi-17/171 MRO plant.

Even if Turkey resolve the engine issue we'll have to wait to see how it performs with new engine. It's not up to us to decide what BA urgently needs or not but I hope BA will also choose this too to maintain commonality and easy logistic support. (There's high possibility)

Odd news - where is the official reference/news? Lets see if the Russians announce this.

There is of course CAATSA to think about - but - are we witnessing the death of CAATSA due to failure to enforce CAATSA on India? Has it become open season ?

So our source from finance ministry is not enough for you? CAATSA has nothing to do with Mi-28 and we have currency swap deal with Russia.

If this news is true, this is another indication of BD moving closer to Russo-China away from US.

As for why they are choosing Russo-China bloc over the Western bloc

Nope. It has nothing to do with joining any bloc. BD is just trying to buy the best thing with quality based on budget and politic. Like i said before if it's not Apache then Mi-28 is the next best option currently.

yep.. no strategic advantage

Possibility of a tank battle between BD-Myanmar is very low.

 

[cloud4000]

I doubt that BD would jump in with the Russian-Chinese block and so if BD must choose, then the West is the only option now. However I think that BD will stay neutral by keeping its head down as much as possible for the next 15-20 years.

If BD can manage a balancing act, it will be the best thing. Nevertheless, BD cannot ignore its relationship with India. Picking China will make New Delhi -- and Washington -- upset for sure.

 

[VikingRaider]

Nope. It's already at finance ministry so decision was taken before these recent incident. Apache was only "down selected" and we didn't even sign GSOMIA. Mentioned it here before that negotiation for Apache failed a year ago.

"A recent move by the US to sell sophisticated defence equipment, including Apache helicopters, could not be materialised. US officials admitted that they had several rounds of talks with the authorities concerned on selling of sophisticated US defence equipment, which they claimed 'best in the world'."

BD not interested in US defence deal under Indo-Pacific strategy

Thank you so much for detailed response! It make sense now. And it's good decision by GoB as well.

Also whole post is very informative,

Nope. It's already at finance ministry so decision was taken before these recent incident. Apache was only "down selected" and we didn't even sign GSOMIA. Mentioned it here before that negotiation for Apache failed a year ago.

"A recent move by the US to sell sophisticated defence equipment, including Apache helicopters, could not be materialised. US officials admitted that they had several rounds of talks with the authorities concerned on selling of sophisticated US defence equipment, which they claimed 'best in the world'."

BD not interested in US defence deal under Indo-Pacific strategy

No, it's obviously for BAF. Deadline for BA's attack helicopter tender was 7th November. It'll take at least one/two years to select. While BAF's program is at least two years old. Do you hate BAF this much that you can't even believe these are for them? President said in 2020 that these are for them. Watch it at 55:42.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=310373339872067

NE is the export designation for N and NM is the upgraded version of N which isn't certified for export yet.




This is the best any country can currently get if it's not Apache. Armor and weapon is better than T-129. Besides it comes with a mast mounted radar and will be able to fire 100km missile in future. BAF can use Mig-29, Mi-171 and Yak-130's two weapons (S-8 and R-73) with Mi-28 and overhaul locally in our Mi-17/171 MRO plant.

Even if Turkey resolve the engine issue we'll have to wait to see how it performs with new engine. It's not up to us to decide what BA urgently needs or not but I hope BA will also choose this too to maintain commonality and easy logistic support. (There's high possibility)



So our source from finance ministry is not enough for you? CAATSA has nothing to do with Mi-28 and we have currency swap deal with Russia.




Nope. It has nothing to do with joining any bloc. BD is just trying to buy the best thing with quality based on budget and politic. Like i said before if it's not Apache then Mi-28 is the next best option currently.

Possibility of a tank battle between BD-Myanmar is very low.

 

[Destranator]

No, it's obviously for BAF. Deadline for BA's attack helicopter tender was 7th November. It'll take at least one/two years to select. While BAF's program is at least two years old. Do you hate BAF this much that you can't even believe these are for them? President said in 2020 that these are for them. Watch it at 55:42.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=310373339872067

I am aware of the previous plan but was expecting BA to use their clout to block BAF from getting attack helicopters especially given that BA are getting their own.

Reasons:
1. Attack helicopters do not belong to the air force. They are designed to support land forces and therefore should be integrated into their command and control structure. Attack helicopters are essentially the third fighting arm of the army after Infantry and Armour.
2. It makes no sense for both BA and BAF to operate attack helicopters.
3. It is not like BAF has nothing else to worry about: They are lacking in fighter jets, AWEC, refueling capabilities etc to name a few deficiencies. They should ideally also look after all types medium to long range missile systems but BA might not want them to (ego).

More reasons to form a Joint Chief's office ASAP.

 

[The Ronin]

1. Attack helicopters do not belong to the air force. They are designed to support land forces and therefore should be integrated into their command and control structure. Attack helicopters are essentially the third fighting arm of the army after Infantry and Armour.
2. It makes no sense for both BA and BAF to operate attack helicopters.

Proposal was made in 2016 (or maybe before that) to purchase attack helicopter to support the proposed air regiment. So i guess their primary role will be supporting the 41 squadron. But yes, totally agree that BAF should focus on MRCA and MR-SAM as top priorities. These two issues are being resolved too, judging by the reports. I don't know who is getting the new SAM. But BAF started the process first and they should be the one to get it first.

The air regiment should be sufficiently equipped with the required arms, ammunitions, ordnance disposal equipment, attack and utility helicopters, general vehicles, ground-to-ground and ground-to-air communication equipment etc. (Interviewed – Rahman, Wing Commander, 04 Sep 16).

 

[Arthur]

I am aware of the previous plan but was expecting BA to use their clout to block BAF from getting attack helicopters especially given that BA are getting their own.

Reasons:
1. Attack helicopters do not belong to the air force. They are designed to support land forces and therefore should be integrated into their command and control structure. Attack helicopters are essentially the third fighting arm of the army after Infantry and Armour.
2. It makes no sense for both BA and BAF to operate attack helicopters.
3. It is not like BAF has nothing else to worry about: They are lacking in fighter jets, AWEC, refueling capabilities etc to name a few deficiencies. They should ideally also look after all types medium to long range missile systems but BA might not want them to (ego).

More reasons to form a Joint Chief's office ASAP.

Attack helis plays a lot more roles than just anti armour. They play a vital role in perimeter defence for aerodromes and other bases in conflict areas and support base defence troops with aerial and close air support. Russian Air Force used the MI 28N attack helis in Syria for air base defence. These helis are perfect since they has good sensors, armour, weapon load and endurance.

 

[Destranator]

Attack helis plays a lot more roles than just anti armour. They play a vital role in perimeter defence for aerodromes and other bases in conflict areas and support base defence troops with aerial and close air support. Russian Air Force used the MI 28N attack helis in Syria for air base defence. These helis are perfect since they has good sensors, armour, weapon load and endurance.

If the intent is to defend air bases with them, BAF's priorities are horribly misplaced. Protect what in air bases? F-7's?

Every penny should go towards preparation for inducting fighter jets including upgrade of air bases.
The enemy land forces cannot reach BAF bases without going through BA resistance. The enemy will never rely on their infantry to take out BAF bases; they will utilise their artillery and air force for this. The best way to protect BAF bases is inducting longer range artillery (BA is on it), MR & LR SAMs and fighter jets.

BAF prioritising getting attack helicopters is comical to put it politely.

 

[Arthur]

If the intent is to defend air bases with them, BAF's priorities are horribly misplaced. Protect what in air bases? F-7's?

Every penny should go towards preparation for inducting fighter jets including upgrade of air bases.
The enemy land forces cannot reach BAF bases without going through BA resistance. The enemy will never rely on their infantry to take out BAF bases; they will utilise their artillery and air force for this. The best way to protect BAF bases is inducting longer range artillery (BA is on it), MR & LR SAMs and fighter jets.

BAF prioritising getting attack helicopters is comical to put it politely.

An enemy has more assets than just infantry i.e Special Forces, saboteurs etc. And not to mention those pesky F-7's are like blind mans stick at this moment.
anyway, no one here declines that BAF should priorities fighter procurement. Quiet otherwise actually. But because of BAF leadership's incompetence to address the fighter jet issue, the rotary or transport wing shall not suffer.